MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #12

[themonk]

It's simply not possible to just hit someone's arm with a vehicle and have them fly 12 or 30 feet.

It's not possible for a human arm alone to shatter a modern taillight at any speed.

It's not possible for a little cocktail glass to shatter a modern taillight.

It's not possible for a smooth taillight to cut up an arm so it looks like dog bites/lacerations.

It's not possible for a phone to land UNDER a body in the CW's scenario. Even Trooper Joe Paul when asked could only say "It just did".

I think Joe P. has actually summarized the CW's entire case. How did Karen Read murder John O'Keefe? "She just did." No actual evidence needed.

good lord it's all just so laughable

 

[jepop]

Also he was hit and then people apparently left the property but nobody saw him lying there dead. (If what I've read is accurate, I'm struggling to keep up!!)

Exactly!
Here's the list of people who were arriving, leaving or looking out the windows at around 12.25 to 12.30am whilst (a) KR was allegedly deliberately reversing at speed for sixty feet (noisy); and (b) side swiping JO with brutal intentional force (noisy); causing JO to be (c) pirouetted/flipped; then (d) have the back of his head impact with the curb (crack); then (e) thrown approx 30 feet through the air to land on the lawn.

At front windows: Jen McCabe and Matt McCabe, Julie Nagle
At front storm door: Jen McCabe, Julie Nagle
On lawn or driveway to front curb near driveway: Julie Nagle.
In truck parked on curb facing south towards flag pole with curb-side window down whilst conversing with Julie Nagle:
Ryan Nagle
Friend of Ryan Nagle (driver)`
Girl friend of Ryan Nagle's friend
? (was there a fourth person in that truck? Can't remember now).

Jen Mc is known to lie under oath, but all of the above in the truck and Julie Nagle testified to seeing the lexus just ahead parked normally and I believe all testified to seeing KR sitting in driver's position for the minutes that they were parked out the front. None testified to seeing JO on the curb, on the lawn, getting struck, flying through the air, hearing a crack of skull on curb, hearing a tail light shattering due to a brutal impact during a reverse at speed. Moo

 

[Aco321]

People, tell me why she called her elderly parents in the middle of the night three times. If you are in the camp that Karen did not kill John what could be the reason for this?

Perhaps she was distraught thinking he was cheating and desperate to talk to someone? I mean, it’s certainly not a normal thing to do… but not too much of a stretch for a person that is heavily intoxicated, emotional, and mentally unstable. IMO.

 

[MyJoey]

None of that “stuff” deals with the damage done to JO and KR's car and the lame explanations given by the cw witnesses. The unbiased, unsolicited, and not paid for by the defense answer is forthcoming from the remaining defense witnesses.Thank you to the FBI and wait for it.

That’s what I mean, what about Karen’s explanations, do they make sense. Do her actions line up? I’m in no way saying the investigation was good, it wasn’t. However she’s not innocent.

 

[MyJoey]

Perhaps she was distraught thinking he was cheating and desperate to talk to someone? I mean, it’s certainly not a normal thing to do… but not too much of a stretch for a person that is heavily intoxicated, emotional, and mentally unstable. IMO.

She’s a grown woman, not a teenager. I mean surely she would have a girlfriend to call about these things. Even as a teenager I wouldn’t call my parents about a cheating boyfriend, but that’s just me.

 

[HarmonyE.]

She’s a grown woman, not a teenager. I mean surely she would have a girlfriend to call about these things. Even as a teenager I wouldn’t call my parents about a cheating boyfriend, but that’s just me.

So you must actually think she called her mom to confess to murder?

Wow. That's wild.

 

[jepop]

Think that topic was discussed ad nauseum last thread. Nobody knows their normal pattern of communications. Trying to compare with you would do or what you think is normal really means nothing.

totally agree and calling her folks is not something the jury will waste any time on when it comes to deliberations jmo.

 

[MyJoey]

Think that topic was discussed ad nauseum last thread. Nobody knows their normal pattern of communications. Trying to compare with you would do or what you think is normal really means nothing.

But they mean everything when the butt dials and BA and BH call each other.

 

[MyJoey]

So you must actually think she called her mom to confess to murder?

Wow. That's wild.

Her father said she told him, I think I hit something….. it could have been during that call.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Exactly!
Here's the list of people who were arriving, leaving or looking out the windows at around 12.25 to 12.30am whilst (a) KR was allegedly deliberately reversing at speed for sixty feet (noisy); and (b) side swiping JO with brutal intentional force (noisy); causing JO to be (c) pirouetted/flipped; then (d) have the back of his head impact with the curb (crack); then (e) thrown approx 30 feet through the air to land on the lawn.

At front windows: Jen McCabe and Matt McCabe, Julie Nagle
At front storm door: Jen McCabe, Julie Nagle
On lawn or driveway to front curb near driveway: Julie Nagle.
In truck parked on curb facing south towards flag pole with curb-side window down whilst conversing with Julie Nagle:
Ryan Nagle
Friend of Ryan Nagle (driver)`
Girl friend of Ryan Nagle's friend
? (was there a fourth person in that truck? Can't remember now).

Jen Mc is known to lie under oath, but all of the above in the truck and Julie Nagle testified to seeing the lexus just ahead parked normally and I believe all testified to seeing KR sitting in driver's position for the minutes that they were parked out the front. None testified to seeing JO on the curb, on the lawn, getting struck, flying through the air, hearing a crack of skull on curb, hearing a tail light shattering due to a brutal impact during a reverse at speed. Moo

It's completely impossible for John to have been hit by Karen at 12:25 (couldn't have been 12:45, despite Lally's and Jen's lies) and for everyone who went by the lawn on foot or in a vehicle not to have seen his body. Including Lucky who was in a perfect situation to see a body if it had been there at 2:45 am.

It's flatly not possible. To claim otherwise is simply fantasy.

 

[jepop]

I plan on sleeping through Lally. I've had enough of him.

Good plan. I'll probably have to watch after hours but will make liberal use of mute lol.

 

[themonk]

But they mean everything when the butt dials and BA and BH call each other.

you don''t think the BA/BH call is odd? Truly?

also did you see my question about FBI hired experts testimony?

you have responded to a bunch of posts but not mine

 

[HarmonyE.]

Her father said she told him, I think I hit something….. it could have been during that call.

Disingenuous. She hit John's car that morning when she was panicking over what happened to John after entering that house full of drunks. Including Higgins.

 

[Maat99]

There was obviously a point in time where KR thought she may have hit JO. I think if her last memory was being drunk, dropping him off, and then seeing him close to that same spot the next day, it is natural to question yourself. BUT I also believe that this is not the same thing as remembering that she DID hit him and it doesn’t mean that she did in fact hit him. I think if the evidence showed his injuries were caused by a car, or if there were damage to the car that lined up with his injuries, we wouldn’t have this trial.
But his injuries very clearly do NOT indicate he was hit by a car as presented by the CW. He also has dog bites on his arm that can’t be explained.

IMO Proctor overplayed his hand by placing/claiming to find taillight fragments where JO was found. He would have been better off putting them where KR was parked that night. At least then he could say that she tapped JO, JO wandered a bit, fell, hit his head and then ended up where he was found. Absolutely no one who is the slightest bit rational believes that accident reconstruction with the hit to the arm launching JO + taillight debris 30 feet away.

And I am 100% certain that actual accident reconstruction experts will be able to use actual expertise to calculate what happens when a 5000lb car moving in a certain direction and a determined speed hits a 220lb object in its path at an angle. It is not going to be that ridiculous scenario that Officer Paul proposed because the crime scene “spoke” to him.

 

[MyJoey]

It's completely impossible for John to have been hit by Karen at 12:25 (couldn't have been 12:45, despite Lally's and Jen's lies) and for everyone who went by the lawn on foot or in a vehicle not to have seen his body. Including Lucky who was in a perfect situation to see a body if it had been there at 2:45 am.

It's flatly not possible. To claim otherwise is simply fantasy.

Inattentional blindness….its a real thing.
Well it didn’t happen at 12:45, so obviously she’s not guilty. It’s like impossible to have a discussion on this forum.

 

[Mony Mony]

Some things can not be explained, I seen a bush In that area and thought he could have tangled up with that. Possibly a dog was roaming the neighborhood that night (although I don’t believe that). Glass was around his body, he could have been trying to get up rolling on that side. I just don’t think some things can be explained how it happens but I do believe she hit him. The normal person would not think he was dead before thinking he was sleeping at someone’s house. Her actions and words were those of guilt.

Well, for what it’s worth, I do believe it is more likely than not (55/45) that KR struck him, however, the CW in no way shape or form proved it beyond a reasonable doubt. And I blame the poor investigation and all the shenanigans of everyone involved. If JOK didn’t have those “pattered” scratches, I would lean stronger to KR hit him.

If I were on the jury, I could not in good conscience take away a woman’s freedom bases on what was presented.

 

[TIGER0822]

People, tell me why she called her elderly parents in the middle of the night three times. If you are in the camp that Karen did not kill John what could be the reason for this?

Drunk, wanted to talk. I have received drunken calls. Person does not care what time if they are drunk enough.

 

[Wishbone]

Inattentional blindness….its a real thing.
Well it didn’t happen at 12:45, so obviously she’s not guilty. It’s like impossible to have a discussion on this forum.

All the party goers had inattentional blindness, kinda like mass hysteria, lol

 

[Curiousobserver]

And let's play devil's advocate and say he did walk into the house that night and got into a dust up that involved the dog. His injuries would have made him look very much alive for a considerable amount of time. Why would a house full of people decide it would be easier to commit murder to cover up a fight rather than just call an ambulance. Why would anybody think the first response would be to drag him across the yard and concoct a story about his girlfriend hitting him knowing he was going to freeze, googling it to be sure vs just explaining a drunk fight? None of it makes sense.

 

[jepop]

Yes geevee!!! And not at all telling the defense or AJ or others what they should do……. but for those that watched the Michelle Troconis / Jennifer Dulos case in CT, closings by state’s attorney’s Michelle Manning and Sean McGuiness were phenomenal. And McGuiness gave a wonderful summation of basically some 30 coincidences that one would have to ignore to conclude that Troconis was not involved in the conspiracy / murder. Something similar in this case with all the unusual circumstances and oddities (including all the derrière dialings….. a favorite) would be a nice close. MOO

Haha you and your derriere dialings aka DDs. So catchy.