VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Do you notice Judge devoted a great deal of extra time today reading the lesser charges again? This was just after Mr. Jackson brought up the issue of the confusing verdict form. She really made a point emphasizing charges 2, 3, 4. She planted an ear worm for me; I couldn't get those manslaughter charges out of my head. If I was a juror, I'd be asking myself , "Why does she keep stressing those lesser charges? Is she planting a seed?"

Interesting….. and not in perhaps a good way IMO.

Wonder if that is someone’s idea of a ‘directed verdict’ in this case?

And would be interesting to see a tally of the potential issues for this case on appeal, just in case needed. IANAL. MOO

 

[Warwick7]

Thank you.
What's the general sense here on WS in terms of:
- whether she is guilty
- whether she will be found guilty

Thanks in advance!

Not guilty.

 

[themonk]

I have said I don't think Karen is guilty of any of the charges. The CW's case was pathetic: lying, evasive witnesses, incompetent 'experts', an unethical prosecutor.

However I do think ANYTHING is possible when it comes to the verdict. KR could be found guilty in spite of it all.

There are miscarriages of justice ALL the time. Hell, people have been put to death only to have it later be determined, OOPS the executed person was innocent. And the system just chugs along.

Cops DO plant evidence, prosecutors present manipulated evidence, witnesses lie. How many people are wrongly in jail because a snitch thought they could 'help' make a case? How many people are in jail because they 'confessed' to something they didn't do?

The system keeps chugging along, and if some innocent people suffer that's a price the system is ok with.

The Honorable Judge Beverly J. Cannone won't lose a wink of sleep whatever happens.

 

[JudyBolton]

I think Karen had it coming. She was laughing, shaking her head and turning to her parents. I do believe there is a rule of conduct in court, that all should follow.

The judge laughed first - and every lawyer and former prosecutor that has commented on this today has stated that the judge was wrong and very unprofessional.

 

[JudyBolton]

-p0=[9¿'.;[[[

Thank you.
What's the general sense here on WS in terms of:
- whether she is guilty
- whether she will be found guilty

Thanks in advance!

Not Guilty!

 

[Yemelyan]

Did Lally try at all to speak about the victim ie humanize JO? Were there many photos of him other than his dead injured body? It seems that he was forgotten in this case. Maybe I missed it.

Lally brought in photos of him way back in the beginning when family members were testifying. Photos of him in his convertible, etc. I believe it was an attempt to do what you're referring to (but as with everything Lally did, not very skillfully).

 

[keek]

IMO, JOK was in a fight, altercation, ambush, whatever in the basement. I don’t believe anyone ever intended to kill him. I believe it involved Colin and both Brian’s. Something really bad happened, JOK hit his head in the stairs or was struck in the head with a great deal of force. Then panic. Get rid of the victim. Get rid of the bloody basement flooring and concrete. Replace those doors leading outside. Get rid of the dog who was just trying to protect her owner. .

JOK’s injuries were from the neck up! He had a bruise on the back of his hand (defense wound?). His shirt had holes through it where the marks on his arm was. Lots of them. Couldn’t possibly have been caused by twilight fragments.

The Albert’s (all of them), Higgins, and definitely the mccabes went into protective mode. And probably without much worry. Very well connected, LE some of them, we can get out of this with little (to none) investigation or problem.

As someone here posted (sorry can’t remember who) it is so simple and obvious. I really don’t get how everyone doesn’t see it.

MOO

I have said I don't think Karen is guilty of any of the charges. The CW's case was pathetic: lying, evasive witnesses, incompetent 'experts', an unethical prosecutor.

However I do think ANYTHING is possible when it comes to the verdict. KR could be found guilty in spite of it all.

There are miscarriages of justice ALL the time. Hell, people have been put to death only to have it later be determined, OOPS the executed person was innocent. And the system just chugs along.

Cops DO plant evidence, prosecutors present manipulated evidence, witnesses lie. How many people are wrongly in jail because a snitch thought they could 'help' make a case? How many people are in jail because they 'confessed' to something they didn't do?

The system keeps chugging along, and if some innocent people suffer that's a price the system is ok with.

The Honorable Judge Beverly J. Cannone won't lose a wink of sleep whatever happens.

Realistic through the years and years. Appreciated post!!

 

[TIGER0822]

I have said I don't think Karen is guilty of any of the charges. The CW's case was pathetic: lying, evasive witnesses, incompetent 'experts', an unethical prosecutor.

However I do think ANYTHING is possible when it comes to the verdict. KR could be found guilty in spite of it all.

There are miscarriages of justice ALL the time. Hell, people have been put to death only to have it later be determined, OOPS the executed person was innocent. And the system just chugs along.

Cops DO plant evidence, prosecutors present manipulated evidence, witnesses lie. How many people are wrongly in jail because a snitch thought they could 'help' make a case? How many people are in jail because they 'confessed' to something they didn't do?

The system keeps chugging along, and if some innocent people suffer that's a price the system is ok with.

The Honorable Judge Beverly J. Cannone won't lose a wink of sleep whatever happens.

She should be disbarred.

 

[TIGER0822]

Honestly, I have never seen a reconciliation of this issue. Have no idea.

Abracadabra here is another piece!

 

[Aquarian]

Abracadabra here is another piece!

True, but I’ll be honest, I will have to go back and see/ listen on what the defense says on this . My recall is there was no explanation from anyone other than- extra glass. Actually, listening to the Villarreal gal would be best. She was the pieces gal. I’ll look into that.

 

[acutename]

Any opinions on how Karen cracked her tail light? Since the defense expert ruled out from hitting John or John’s Car ? Keeping in mind Karen knew she cracked it and told officers (in front of her parents) it happened last night. Also telling Kerry and Jen that morning.
Just curious what you think happened if you to believe the expert.

Not convinced that a typical glass would crack a tail light- I think the glass would break but not the plastic tail light. I think you would need a big rock or a hammer or another vehicle IMO. Any car mechanics in WS?

 

[less0305]

I honestly believe that they were fighting on the drive over there and she was pissed he was insistent on going to the party and she didn't want to and/or was mad because she wasn't "invited." I think when he got out of the vehicle and got just past the vehicle, he slipped or fell due to either weather or just being drunk and he was down on his knees or crouched or what have you and she was so drunk and so pissed that she either already had her vehicle in reverse from her attempts to park or she thought she had it in drive, but had it in reverse by error because of drunkenness and after she finished looking at her phone, gunned the car to leave, but it went backward and hit him while he was already somewhat down and trying to get up. My dad hit the gas on his vehicle in reverse by mistake and you would not believe the damage that he did in a short space and span (luckily no people were involved). I don't think she intentionally hit him or killed him. But even in accidents a person who is culpable has some measure of punishment.
I don't believe the conspiracy cover-up theory.
Who knows what kind of animal attacked his arm while he lay dying. I think it was an animal that did the damage to his arm and that was not caused by the vehicle. As for the defensive wound to the front of his hand... He was drunk - he could have hit his hand on anything that night. I've hit my arm on doorknobs as I'm walking or hit the back of my hand on a corner of a table, etc. that left a bruise - and not because I've been drinking, but it can happen.
I believe it will be a hung jury.

 

[acutename]

I honestly believe that they were fighting on the drive over there and she was pissed he was insistent on going to the party and she didn't want to and/or was mad because she wasn't "invited." I think when he got out of the vehicle and got just past the vehicle, he slipped or fell due to either weather or just being drunk and he was down on his knees or crouched or what have you and she was so drunk and so pissed that she either already had her vehicle in reverse from her attempts to park or she thought she had it in drive, but had it in reverse by error because of drunkenness and after she finished looking at her phone, gunned the car to leave, but it went backward and hit him while he was already somewhat down and trying to get up. My dad hit the gas on his vehicle in reverse by mistake and you would not believe the damage that he did in a short space and span (luckily no people were involved). I don't think she intentionally hit him or killed him. But even in accidents a person who is culpable has some measure of punishment.
I don't believe the conspiracy cover-up theory.
Who knows what kind of animal attacked his arm while he lay dying. I think it was an animal that did the damage to his arm and that was not caused by the vehicle. As for the defensive wound to the front of his hand... He was drunk - he could have hit his hand on anything that night. I've hit my arm on doorknobs as I'm walking or hit the back of my hand on a corner of a table, etc. that left a bruise - and not because I've been drinking, but it can happen.
I believe it will be a hung jury.

problem with this is that he winds up further away splayed out on the lawn... how? (I have also thought esp. with the storm, that he could have slipped and been hit by a vehicle backing up but it does not explain where his body winds up.)

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Not convinced that a typical glass would crack a tail light- I think the glass would break but not the plastic tail light. I think you would need a big rock or a hammer or another vehicle IMO. Any car mechanics in WS?

The attached reference may be of some interest on the question posed. “Karen Read’s 2021 Lexus LX 570 Tail Light Durability Exposed”, published May 8, 2024 by an Admin in True Crime. One excerpt in this reference contains the following statement:

“Impact Resistance: Polycarbonate offers exceptional resistance to impacts, up to 250 times stronger than glass and significantly superior to other plastics such as acrylic.”

Particulars of the specific vehicle and specifications on the taillight lens and taillight housing are not known AFAIK. Lexus and / or their supplier may have those details. One might also envision that history of a vehicle, temperature, heat or aging history, exposure to sunlight, chemicals, and possible prior damage or repair could affect any results and its strength IMO. MOO

Karen Read's 2021 Lexus LX 570 Tail Light Durability Exposed - Skiplook

Using AI and in depth research, Eric Neal explores the Karen Read 2021 Lexus tail light argument in this unbiased article.

skiplook.com

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

The bruise on the knee is a nonissue imho. I actually laughed when they showed the photo of it because Lally had made so much of it. I was like really? THAT’S the injury? I’ve got bruises on my knees identical to that at all times from doing stupid stuff like swiveling my desk chair too fast.

Re: the jury, I’m not too worried it’s taking a while. I was trying to think about how I’d want to approach it if I were on a jury (I’ve never served before). A system that would make sense to me is to basically create a master document of everyone’s notes. So that would involve going down the witness list one by one and compiling everyone’s notes about their testimony and reconciling any discrepancies. If they’re doing something systematic like this, I could certainly see it taking a while.

 

[k-mac]

My OPINION, they gunna nail her on manslaughter.

Because technically her hitting him with the car didn't cause his death.
The freezing snow/ blizzard killed him.

I also think, even though she left him for dead, and the moments after busily spamming his voice mail with rageful vengeance she had no clue when she drove off when he would be found.

So manslaughter is the correct charge IMO.

 

[less0305]

problem with this is that he winds up further away splayed out on the lawn... how? (I have also thought esp. with the storm, that he could have slipped and been hit by a vehicle backing up but it does not explain where his body winds up.)

If she gunned her car to speed off it could have thrown him.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

My OPINION, they gunna nail her on manslaughter.

Because technically her hitting him with the car didn't cause his death.
The freezing snow/ blizzard killed him.

I also think, even though she left him for dead, and the moments after busily spamming his voice mail with rageful vengeance she had no clue when she drove off when he would be found.

So manslaughter is the correct charge IMO.

So you oppose the testimony of the FBI experts?

 

[TIGER0822]

True, but I’ll be honest, I will have to go back and see/ listen on what the defense says on this . My recall is there was no explanation from anyone other than- extra glass. Actually, listening to the Villarreal gal would be best. She was the pieces gal. I’ll look into that.

Could a drunk (lot of them in the area) have tossed a mini one shot glass in the yard and it shattered?

 

[Aquarian]

My OPINION, they gunna nail her on manslaughter.

Because technically her hitting him with the car didn't cause his death.
The freezing snow/ blizzard killed him.

I also think, even though she left him for dead, and the moments after busily spamming his voice mail with rageful vengeance she had no clue when she drove off when he would be found.

So manslaughter is the correct charge IMO.

I have to disagree on this. JO would have died by the head injuries. I’m not getting the feeling he ever had a pulse when EMT arrived. Yes, eventually hypothermia took place, but it was contributory not the initial COD, imo.