MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #17

[MerlinFalcon]

My brother has dogwalkers through Rover. The person always goes in the house. Otherwise the dog would have to be left outside all day and night until the walker arrives. Certainly can't do that in the heat.

Or snow. Or rain and thunder.

 

[mrjitty]

The only thing I see clearly is that the MA criminal court seems to operate in a vacuum!

I don't understand the Court's fight over jury instructions, verdict form, or why it wasn't clear to the jurors they could deliver verdicts on charges as they reached them-- eliminating the need for the defense Motion.

I don't think this Court will acknowledge affidavits from the jurors (affirming the defendant was acquitted on two charges), claiming no do-overs-- because it would confirm the Court's error. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the DA refiled the same charges for round two.

And yes, I only see the defense Motion being heard by a higher Court. Guess they will cross that bridge if/when the defendant is recharged. JMO.

That's my wild guess as well.

I wonder if this could end up like Murdaugh where the Judge has to question each juror about their deliberations. Somehow the defence needs that on the record IMO

 

[seekingjustice**]

If your dog was crated or in a different room or had full run out of the house, that would change. Same with if your walker had to use the washroom or wash their hands.

My point is that every dog walker situation is different. Not every dog walker goes inside the owners home.

 

[TTF14]

My point is that every dog walker situation is different. Not every dog walker goes inside the owners home.

It's probably moot at this point, anyway. Wasn't she already caught in the lie? I'd have to watch again, just going by what some people said here. I think I might have missed the dog walker testimony entirely or wasn't paying attention.

IMO MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

My point is that every dog walker situation is different. Not every dog walker goes inside the owners home.

She testified she went into their house. What is the argument about?

 

[seekingjustice**]

It's probably moot at this point, anyway. Wasn't she already caught in the lie? I'd have to watch again, just going by what some people said here. I think I might have missed the dog walker testimony entirely or wasn't paying attention.

IMO MOO

I also can't remember hearing the dog walker testimony so I can't vouch that she lied or didn't lie. It's been mentioned many times on here that she lied. IMO

 

[seekingjustice**]

She testified she went into their house. What is the argument about?

You'll need to read back through the thread to see what the arguments about.

 

[Forest_Wood]

It's probably moot at this point, anyway. Wasn't she already caught in the lie? I'd have to watch again, just going by what some people said here. I think I might have missed the dog walker testimony entirely or wasn't paying attention.

IMO MOO

It was easy to miss. People are calling her a dog walker but that was only a small part of Julie Nagel’s testimony. I believe the dog walking was introduced to make the point she never walked the Albert’s German shepherd because Chloe was too volatile to walk. And catching her in that lie about not going into the McCabes home was icing on the cake. That’s what I got from that portion of her testimony anyway. MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

You'll need to read back through the thread to see what the arguments about.

I’ve read the thread. I can’t understand what your argument is when she has testified she went into their house. It’s therefore irrelevant what other dog walkers do. MOO

 

[Misy]

She said she never actually did babysit. She was close enough/trusted enough to ask, though.

Julie Albert tried to say she never babysat for proctor…. really tried. Then finally admitted that yes she had babysat for them… a lot. MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Julie Albert tried to say she never babysat for proctor…. really tried. Then finally admitted that yes she had babysat for them… a lot. MOO

She also said she rarely talked to Proctor’s sister until defense illustrated she talked to her over 60x (I believe that was the number) during the next months after the incident, the implication being JA was gathering information about the case from his sister who was getting information from Proctor himself. Sneaky! MOO
ETA clarification

 

[TTF14]

She also said she rarely talked to Proctor’s sister until defense illustrated she talked to her over 60x (I believe that was the number) during the next months after the incident. MOO

The way these people distance themselves from people they talk to all the damn time is crazy.

 

[ShadyLady]

She also said she rarely talked to Proctor’s sister until defense illustrated she talked to her over 60x (I believe that was the number) during the next months after the incident. MOO

What bothered me more is that she (Julie Nagel) gave her texts to JM, not LE, and then for the first time said she said the "thing" she saw in the yard was 5-6ft. A complete lie. She refused to answer most of the defense questions, smirking, and it was obvious to me she was determine to help the prosecution. IMO

changed name!

 

[Forest_Wood]

What bothered me more is that she gave her texts to JM, not LE, and then for the first time said she said the "thing" she saw in the yard was 5-6ft. A complete lie. She refused to answer most of the defense questions, smirking, and it was obvious to me she was determine to help the prosecution. IMO

You and I are referring to two different people. Im referring to Julie Albert in the above post and you’re referring to Julie Nagel here. But yes, JN made it clear she was helping the MCAlberts! I was embarrassed for her. MOO

 

[Universecalling]

My point is that every dog walker situation is different. Not every dog walker goes inside the owners home.

Well, the good news here is we know the person in this matter did walk into the house while dog sitting.

 

[kittythehare]

It's probably moot at this point, anyway. Wasn't she already caught in the lie? I'd have to watch again, just going by what some people said here. I think I might have missed the dog walker testimony entirely or wasn't paying attention.

IMO MOO

worth a listen

 

[Universecalling]

It was easy to miss. People are calling her a dog walker but that was only a small part of Julie Nagel’s testimony. I believe the dog walking was introduced to make the point she never walked the Albert’s German shepherd because Chloe was too volatile to walk. And catching her in that lie about not going into the McCabes home was icing on the cake. That’s what I got from that portion of her testimony anyway. MOO

Nagel desperately wanted to belong. Calling them JJ and Coco, providing screenshots like a good girl,
And when you hear JJ’s testimony she couldn’t care less about that girl. It was kinda sad to watch.

 

[Universecalling]

What bothered me more is that she gave her texts to JM, not LE, and then for the first time said she said the "thing" she saw in the yard was 5-6ft. A complete lie. She refused to answer most of the defense questions, smirking, and it was obvious to me she was determine to help the prosecution. IMO

Meanwhile, we have troop pauly testifying to his attempt to recreate the car hit. By placing a punching dummy behind the car. A dummy he says was about his height. He’s 5’6. JOK was 6’1 or 6’2.
I swear. I am NOT making this up.

And in some people’s eyes, fbi hired experts who used physics and math are equal, or less than, to trooper Paul’s “it just did” calculations.
In fact, some people in this group believe Paul has merit and his version has credibility.

 

[ShadyLady]

worth a listen

And both Sarah and her, claimed they could see the front door where they were sitting. Sarah looked medicated on the stand. Yet, they all were dancing and singing...right.

And she said BA had Chloe by the collar when he let the dog out, yet I think it was JM that said Chole was loose...or was it NA who said that?

 

[TIGER0822]

I wonder if he was on shift? In my region sometimes they will start at 10 PM or 3 AM depending on when the snowstorm is expected to get heavier. Even if the predictions are wrong they will still drive around during their allotted hours and do the work when the time comes to do so.

I think Tristen also mentioned he was expected to start his job plowing the roads too at 3 AM so maybe their area is not too different from mine.

JMO

Can you elaborate on the legal basis where it appears 'weak', please?
They have a seriously hardcore lawyer on board , not the type to lodge 'weak' legal documents.

Link re: legal argument opinion

Was the mistrial ruling for Karen Read a mistake? What experts say

Karen Read's lawyers argued that jurors were unanimously opposed to some of the charges against her — including murder — and that retrying those charges would be double jeopardy.

www.masslive.com