MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #17

[kittythehare]

My post state nothing about an article of clothing.

Thank you for your post. I've provided a link in case you'd like a reference.

Flag Etiquette and the US Flag Code

By following these guidelines, individuals and organizations show respect for the American flag and the values it represents. The U.S. Flag Code is not legally enforceable, but adherence to it is considered a sign of patriotism and respect.

www.military.com

Flag etiquette pertains to certain US activities but most certainly not all US protests of which there are many.

How would people know what was being protested if everybody just carried the same flag?
How do you know some of the protesters were carrying Chinese made flags and what does it matter?
Serious question.

I personally assumed pink denoted female. I didn't look any deeper into it..

Is there a problem with a pink flag that is made in China??
What is it?

 

[Universecalling]

My post states nothing about an article of clothing.

Thank you for your post. I've provided a link in case you'd like a reference.

Flag Etiquette and the US Flag Code

By following these guidelines, individuals and organizations show respect for the American flag and the values it represents. The U.S. Flag Code is not legally enforceable, but adherence to it is considered a sign of patriotism and respect.

www.military.com

Not legally enforceable. I didn’t even have to click on the link to find that out.

My response was to your comment regarding “made in China” items Karen Read supporters are using to show their support.

Do you have articles in your house with an American flag on it. Probably most are made in China.

My

 

[Universecalling]

Juror E came forward.

 

[ch_13]

So about this fan club, holding a pink (made in china) flag. It’s not an American flag.
It’s ugly! Disgusting. Lack of respect and ignorance.

My post states nothing about an article of clothing.

Thank you for your post. I've provided a link in case you'd like a reference.

Flag Etiquette and the US Flag Code

By following these guidelines, individuals and organizations show respect for the American flag and the values it represents. The U.S. Flag Code is not legally enforceable, but adherence to it is considered a sign of patriotism and respect.

www.military.com

Especially in the last few years, we have seen a profusion of variations on the U.S. flag: all black U.S. flags, rainbow U.S. flags, U.S. flags with one or more stripes in blue/green/red, etc. And, I think it goes without saying that virtually all the flags we see are made in China. I think people's feelings towards a flag variation is heavily colored by their feelings about the underlying political movement that the flag represents. For example, if that pink flag was used at a rally against breast cancer (as they have been in the past) I can't imagine anyone railing against it and calling its use disgusting.

And while all these flags may indeed infringe on the flag code, those are hardly the only common violations. For example, a flag should never be worn as apparel, a rule that is violated so frequently (and by people who consider themselves patriots) that it's barely worth remarking upon.

In the end, though..I am completely against any intimidation of jurors and witnesses. And I do believe that things in this case have gotten out of hand, from people showing up to kids' ballgames to animals being tortured and killed to send a message.

But where I differ is when people complain about legitimate, non-violent protests. It's a fundamental right of Americans to demonstrate in opposition to governmental overreach and wrongdoing and the KR protestors are simply exercising their rights, whether you agree with them or not. As long as they adhere to the judge's directives about the buffer zone, then I don't think they are doing anything wrong, even if one has personal objections to their sartorial choices and accoutrements.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Always two sides to every story.

Yes Tiger0822!…… that is often the case. Reflecting on recent posts in this case and the case’s current state, I am also reminded by a quote IIRC attributed to Don Henley of The Eagles musical group. Something along the lines of ‘there’s three sides to every story…… there’s yours, there’s mine, and the cold hard truth’.

That sometimes fits too, IMO. And I have long enjoyed that quote. MOO

 

[ch_13]

Juror E came forward.

#5 seems to be new information. If I read that right, then the jury didn't think she was guilty of the top-line charge in Count 2 which was Vehicular Manslaughter. They were deadlocked on Involuntary Manslaughter or one of the other lesser charges.

Although as a practical matter, I don't think it makes a difference. She can still be retried on Count 2 even if the judge finds that she's acquitted on 1 & 3.

 

[waldojabba]

KR appeared to be a very happy defendant and defense team encouraged the fan club to continue with the support.
I suspected the KR fan club were seen by the jurors every day. It certainly would taint the case further.
It is my understanding that KR and defense team would do a victory lap (loop around) at the end of each day and wave to their fans and supporters. The day of the mistrial they got in the SUV and left, no looping around.

So about this fan club, holding a pink (made in china) flag. It’s not an American flag.
It’s ugly! Disgusting. Lack of respect and ignorance.

The true jury count is still all rumor. The poor jurors, only doing their civic duty and it is no surprise to hear of the fear.
Knew it would be coming, only a matter of time. moo

Honestly when I read this juror feared intimidation I immediately just thought it was intimidation from the local town bullies. You know some of the ones who showed up at the trial for the closing arguments and glared at the jury uncomfortably.
For this person to fear the pink peeps and the turtle boy I find a bit ridic. As a matter of fact I find the whole motion a bit ridic. Has this person never been online before and seen the vitriol that is posted every day about absolutely everything including court cases near and far.
Do they live in a bubble?
This whole motion sounded very childish to me. A very anxious child. Or someone elderly and out of touch - like a shut in.
To say that one should not question a sitting judge … left me dumbfounded. It’s like my Mom thinking in the old days that the doctor was all knowing and all priests were beyond reproach.
Color me speechless.
But I think I understand a little better why this jury ruled as they did.. if what we hear is true.
It seems there was at least one juror that did not think it appropriate to question authority. And was likely suspicious of the guys in expensive suits with multiple degrees.
All jmo and rambling

 

[shotgun09]

It sounds like this juror might have happened ( IMO ) upon a few peeps at the VFW watering hole....and low and behold! A claim of harassment appears in the case. You really can't make this stuff up !

The Netflix folks are seeing dollar signs !!

 

[Forest_Wood]

KR appeared to be a very happy defendant and defense team encouraged the fan club to continue with the support.
I suspected the KR fan club were seen by the jurors every day. It certainly would taint the case further.

KR did not look very happy in the earlier weeks of the trial. She looked tired, sad and drained IMO.
I imagine seeing people come out in support of her would energize her as the days dragged on.
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with having people come out to support a person on trial.
As well, seeing her attorneys doing such an amazing job at defending her must have given her hope for her future.
Their defense of her was very believable to many.
If the jurors saw her support people, how would that taint the case?
Would it make them stop and think, "Oh, maybe this lady is innocent if so many people believe in her?"
The same could be said about the Alberts /McCabe showing up to overshadow the seats behind the O'Keefes. Would that have tainted the jury as well?
MOO.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Honestly when I read this juror feared intimidation I immediately just thought it was intimidation from the local town bullies. You know some of the ones who showed up at the trial for the closing arguments and glared at the jury uncomfortably.

That's the way I read the article too.
Maybe some of the other jurors want to come forward like the other five have, but fear the town bullies and their elected representatives.
They wouldn't want to be known to the bullies, given those same people may have colluded to cover up a death and seem to have 'friends' in high places.
MOO

 

[Misy]

Citing jurors' "credible" and "reasonable fear for their safety and the safety of their family," Judge Beverly Cannone on Thursday ordered the list of Karen Read murder trial jurors to be indefinitely impounded.

...

Citing juror's 'credible' fears, judge orders Karen Read jury list indefinitely impounded

Citing jurors' "credible" and "reasonable fear for their safety and the safety of their family," Judge Beverly Cannone on Thursday ordered the list of Karen Read murder trial jurors to be indefinitely impounded.

www.wcvb.com

Updated: 1:46 PM EDT Jul 18, 2024

Why would the jurors names EVER be released in the first place? Aren’t jurors identities always protected even after the trials, except when they want to speak? MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

Begin @14:00

No need for a further defense here, the meaning of your post is clear enough.

The crowd outside could best be described as a peaceful mob.

If anyone thought that JO's family sitting together with some of the witnesses during closing arguments was Jury intimidation, I am not sure how you reconcile hundreds of people marching around in pink and shouting all day is not intimidation.

 

[OldCop]

And was likely suspicious of the guys in expensive suits with multiple degrees.

I agree. Some people find very smart people intimidating. Others think an expert testifying on technical matters is feeding them mumbo jumbo to muddy the waters. Some who have utmost faith that LE always does the right thing, have a resentment towards a defendant/defense team and don’t believe a thing they say.
These days, when you feel compelled to voice your opinion on every little thing with the utmost confidence that you are right and everyone else is wrong, it is really hard to find jurors who will truly listen to the evidence and reach a verdict that is based on fact.
I still can’t get over the statement given to Judge Cannone when they advised her they could not reach a unanimous verdict:
"The deep division is not due to a lack of effort or diligence but rather a sincere adherence to our individual principles and moral convictions. To continue to deliberate would be futile and only serve to force us to compromise these deeply-held beliefs.”

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Judge in Karen Read murder trial impounds jury list

The judge in the Karen Read murder trial won't release the names of the people who served on the deadlocked jury.

www.newschannel9.com

 

[TIGER0822]

KR did not look very happy in the earlier weeks of the trial. She looked tired, sad and drained IMO.
I imagine seeing people come out in support of her would energize her as the days dragged on.
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with having people come out to support a person on trial.
As well, seeing her attorneys doing such an amazing job at defending her must have given her hope for her future.
Their defense of her was very believable to many.
If the jurors saw her support people, how would that taint the case?
Would it make them stop and think, "Oh, maybe this lady is innocent if so many people believe in her?"
The same could be said about the Alberts /McCabe showing up to overshadow the seats behind the O'Keefes. Would that have tainted the jury as well?
MOO.

Replied to wrong comment.

 

[TIGER0822]

I agree. Some people find very smart people intimidating. Others think an expert testifying on technical matters is feeding them mumbo jumbo to muddy the waters. Some who have utmost faith that LE always does the right thing, have a resentment towards a defendant/defense team and don’t believe a thing they say.
These days, when you feel compelled to voice your opinion on every little thing with the utmost confidence that you are right and everyone else is wrong, it is really hard to find jurors who will truly listen to the evidence and reach a verdict that is based on fact.
I still can’t get over the statement given to Judge Cannone when they advised her they could not reach a unanimous verdict:
"The deep division is not due to a lack of effort or diligence but rather a sincere adherence to our individual principles and moral convictions. To continue to deliberate would be futile and only serve to force us to compromise these deeply-held beliefs.”

I put this question intoChatGPT on 'how to word that people have an unresolved difference of opinion', it gave me a very, very similar answer. This is most likely where they got their statement from, an app. Chatgpt will be the ruination of mankinds brains.

 

[TIGER0822]

I agree. Some people find very smart people intimidating. Others think an expert testifying on technical matters is feeding them mumbo jumbo to muddy the waters. Some who have utmost faith that LE always does the right thing, have a resentment towards a defendant/defense team and don’t believe a thing they say.
These days, when you feel compelled to voice your opinion on every little thing with the utmost confidence that you are right and everyone else is wrong, it is really hard to find jurors who will truly listen to the evidence and reach a verdict that is based on fact.
I still can’t get over the statement given to Judge Cannone when they advised her they could not reach a unanimous verdict:
"The deep division is not due to a lack of effort or diligence but rather a sincere adherence to our individual principles and moral convictions. To continue to deliberate would be futile and only serve to force us to compromise these deeply-held beliefs.”

To quote a very successful Attorney 'Dumb judges don't like smart lawyers'.

 

[fluffypaste]

I feel like it may have really handicapped the biomedical engineers that they weren't allowed to say who hired them. If I were on a jury, I might see it as weird or suspicious that a witness seems unwilling to say who hired them.

And it would not be intuitive to think "oh, it was probably the FBI who hired them."