MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #5

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
What they also need to show is that when she was driving into JO’s garage around 1 AM, the taillight was intact. There still, theoretically, is some time to replace it between 1 AM and 5 AM. If you have a good friend who is a Lexus dealer, or someone in your family has a similar Lexus.
I have a Lexus (diff model) and have an app in which I can do various things (start, lock, find location) etc. since it can do all of that, assume there’s a lot more in the background too. If I can find the location at any time, it must store it I’d assume
 
They sound 0% credible to me.

Prosecutors win cases all the time using phone and internet data. And yet:

Life360 data indicates Allie McCabe drove around town until 1:28 am although she testified she got home at 12:30 and stayed home. She and her mother say the data is wrong.

Phone data shows Jen McCabe called John O'Keefe's phone repeatedly - 6 times in total - before 1 am. She denies she called him at all and if the records are accurate, they must have all been butt dials she wasn't aware of.

Phone data shows Higgins and Brian Albert had conversations at around 2 am but they deny they spoke. They insist they didn't have a 22 second conversation, but if the records show they did, it must have been a case of butt dialing coupled with butt answering. So just their butts were talking for those 22 seconds.

Cellebrite data shows Jen McCabe googled "Hos long to die in the cold" at 2:27. She denies this, and insists that search relates to later searches asking essentially the same question at 6:23 am and 6:24 am. And yet, curiously, the only search she deleted of these was the 2:27 one.

Phone data shows Nicole answered two of Jen's calls before Jen finally decided to enter the apparently unlocked house. But both of them claim this data is wrong and they never spoke until Jen "burst" into the Albert bedroom.

And then to ice the cake, we have deleted messages (Jen), destroyed/wiped phones (BA and BH) and my favorites, BH's illegal use of FBI equipment to pull data from his phone and the destruction of his SIM card at a military base on Cape Cod.

Sure. Nothing to see here, folks.
I don’t believe these cats either. But, I have teens and Life 360 and it’s a great tracking tool. However, it is known for being inaccurate sometimes. It has shown my son driving at 95 mph when it was 70, has shown him down the street when he’s sleeping etc.
 
Same here ! No doubt, with Jackson gone Yanetti will step up to the plate and deliver. Judge Bev is NOT A FAN of Alan Jackson at all, as she was on the quick to sustain any and all objections from Lally. With Yanetti, who is from her 'area', not an 'outsider'...she might be a little more tolerant. He can get by with the " Of course" to her honor, after being admonished for his 'of courses'. He has played in her court a time or two, and is not out to maintain an image, but to defend his client. I have faith that he will finish with Higgins with a quieter, more subtle but just as deadly fireworks show.
Where’s Jackson going?
 
Where’s Jackson going?

He has another trial out of state he's part of for this week. Which was already arranged. He will be back next week, whenever Judge Bev resumes then that is.

ETA: The only day court is in session for this trial is tomorrow, the 28th. Court will be dark the remainder of the week.
 
Page 14 here.


Dr. Scordi-Bello opined from her examination that significant blunt force trauma injuries occurred
prior to Mr. O'Keefe becoming hypothermic, as evidenced by hemorrhaging in his pancreas and stomach.

"becoming hypothermic" Not blood from an injury from being hit by a car.

Context matters.
 
"The defendant indicated that she first observed the broken taillight in the morning and did not know how she had broken it the previous evening."

Doesn't know how she broke it that night. Because she didn't break it that night, she cracked it that morning hitting John's car.

Context matters. She did not confess to damaging her taillight hitting John with her vehicle.
 
"becoming hypothermic" Not blood from an injury from being hit by a car.

Context matters.

The context can't be more explicit that it was caused by blunt force trauma.

"significant blunt force trauma injuries occurred prior to Mr. O'Keefe becoming hypothermic, as evidenced by hemorrhaging in his pancreas and stomach."
 
how does anyone explain the missing shoe and belt from the victim?
guess I would like to know if they were loose slip on shoes... still hard
to imagine a car hit removing clothing IMO
I'd need to see the testimony, somehow, of proof those items were not with JO at the scene. IF they were found, you'd think the ALBERTS who lived there or 'FRIENDS' would be looking for those items in the street, yard, would of turned them in, but so far NO word of those items. How can they say oh I found them.um. in the bushes. How could the cops not go looking for those items either, IF they didn't. So have to hear some sort of real truth on that. ugh. all mixed in together those people unfortunately. I had put out a thought that if JO was being attacked by the dog as well inside or even outside, he'd be trying to kick the dog away/off him, dog mangled the shoe. If shoe was presented, it would prob have bite marks in it, so there you go, dog attack. The cap I don't know but it was left out for a reason. If a belt, it may of been removed when EMT's attending to JO in the ambulance and just lost. He was not being looked at as a victim of a suspicious death it seems, but hit by the suv as KR was saying it was possible. So prob not meticulous caring of his belongings. Horrible situation with the 'investigation' or those attending and NOT attending. ( ALBERT NEVER CAME OUT OF HIS HOUSE).
 
Doesn't know how she broke it that night. Because she didn't break it that night, she cracked it that morning hitting John's car.

Context matters. She did not confess to damaging her taillight hitting John with her vehicle.

I said she admitted it was broken that night, not that she confessed to the crime.

But how do you know she hit John's car when there's no proof of it?
 
I have a Lexus (diff model) and have an app in which I can do various things (start, lock, find location) etc. since it can do all of that, assume there’s a lot more in the background too. If I can find the location at any time, it must store it I’d assume
Good point
 
The context can't be more explicit that it was caused by blunt force trauma.

"significant blunt force trauma injuries occurred prior to Mr. O'Keefe becoming hypothermic, as evidenced by hemorrhaging in his pancreas and stomach."

With all due respect, you are mischaracterizing the evidence. Badly.

The head injury is the trauma referenced. It occurred before he became hypothermic in the cold. The hypothermia caused the red condition/hemorrhaging in the pancreas and stomach.

This does NOT say he sustained internal injuries from being hit by a vehicle. In fact, it says something completely different.
 
I said she admitted it was broken that night, not that she confessed to the crime.

But how do you know she hit John's car when there's no proof of it?

There's video of her backing into his car. His car moves indicating she hit it. If you look it easily explains why the light would be cracked, but not broken into some 40+pieces.
 
Do you believe a guy can see a piece of broken tail light from a moving car in an area that had been gone over 3 times by investigators? Do you believe that 1 guy in a house can see out the window, thru the snow, 30 yrds away from the house and see tire tracks in the snow, but can't read a piece of paper 3 inches in front of his nose in court. Do you believe a guy can see a long haired female sitting with her hands at the 10 and 2 position on a steering wheel but can't remember literally ANYTHING else he's done practically forever?

There are sooo very many of these hoops we have to jump thru to believe any of the testimony so far. They just keep coming and coming. I can give the benefit of the doubt to a few of them, hell even a dozen but there are dozens and dozens of other hoops to jump thru in order to believe any of these people to come to the conclusion that KR killed JO.

It's almost in the hundreds. Shoddy investigations, butt dials, butt dials of butt dials, missed phone calls, chain of evidence violations, deleted data, FBI investigations, re-homing of dogs, cell phones and houses, new re modelling of cellar doors, Group interviews of witnesses which is a HUGE problem and goes against all investigative norms, bruised knuckles and falling fist first into ice, high maintence girfriends, weird timings of phone calls, abnormal comings and going at the police stations, alcohol and drunk driving, missing videos, selective DNA sampling, snow plows, shoddy crime scene security, injuries that don't line up with injuries, text messages that disappear, selective memory, police and reports that mention nothing of a confession, everyone being connected and related to cops. The list goes on and on and on we have to believe ALL of these in order to eliminate reasonable doubt. Take one or two of these out and the Jenga Tower falls and the CW's case fails. I still don't see how this ever made it to trial. It's a farce.
I didn’t say I believed KR killed JO, I said I believe she bumped him and more happened to him after that….. I’m definitely seeing some of the same things you are.
 
It’s always interesting to see when tools with questionable indisputability are used to hold the Shoulda Just Complied classes to account for their own actions when they suspect they might be swept up into a criminal investigation. And it’s instructional to observe how current and former LE navigate their personal, off duty civil rights; defensible things like seeking and paying for legal advice, declining to participate in pseudoscience criminalistics like polygraphs, getting ahead of quashable preservation orders, not using cloud-based digital security camera systems on their own homes when the data collected might be used to monitor their behavior or the ordinary comings and goings of neighbors and friends, deciding to create a timeline of their behavior through group consensus. The right to privacy, and confer with other witnesses, is important!

For years, organized legal defense advocates for murder and terrorism suspects, especially, have argued that cell phone and smart device analytics purporting to demonstrate detailed on- and off-phone activities down to the second are imperfect interpretations of data, including passive background activity and collection by apps, and that companies like Cellebrite that market their interpretations to security forces actively use these public-private contracts to resist exposing their in-house metrics to public scrutiny, testing, and legal dispute. The master’s tools can apparently smart when, to mix metaphors, that boomerang bounces back.

I’m assuming this will change nothing for the average citizen but I bet the local and federal peers of the Alberts and of Higgins are paying close attention and will make the necessary adjustments to protect themselves being subjected in future to these tactics we ourselves aren’t as readily able to avoid. Indeed, as @ch_13 pointed out, Karen Read’s defense counsel couldn’t have hired an analytics company to scrutinize anyone’s device because they weren’t permitted to successfully obtain and execute preservation and search orders for any interested party in this death. Defense counsel for ordinary civilians (police and federal agents are, of course, civilians, too, but there are these kiosks, y’see) can’t mount an affirmative defense using this kind of material evidence unless a government agency sought and seized it, as it did here, nor do they get to limit access to their clients’ data — such as it is and with what qualifiers apply as to what that data really represents, warts and all — in curated screenshot form.

Again, a lot of this stuff really is disputable and always has been, but the usual caveated appeals to law n order tend to blunt the reality and significance for all of us. But this case is really something else when it comes to even simple things that we might ordinarily think are pretty low tech, like a security card swipe. Not so definitive anymore, it’s being argued. Doesn’t prove much, can’t be used to lock down a non-opaque timeline or trace a person’s steps in a secured facility, which itself has been militarized to the gills on our dime and for the greater good.

Will the rest of us get the benefit of that doubt, or will it be business as usual when the interested party is a lesser public servant, like a teacher or a welfare worker? Will a person who sanitizes the facilities in a public building endear themselves to a jury, awash for decades in the teachings of the church of our Big Tech Savior and reared to believe anything that seems science-y can’t be wrong or nuanced or non-definitive, with a butt dial argument concerning a phone they used to have, now disposed of, they admit had at least one if not two lock screen protection features enabled? Would it be in their favor if they were also on a Jameson bender or having sex at the time? Or would the commonwealth demand access to the phone itself to prove they simply couldn’t’ve been on the couch or in missionary position because their compass app or the haptics or whatever definitely, pinky swear, sez nein?

Lexus OBD metrics are coming. Who will be as skeptical about them as they (probably rightfully are) are about Life360 or search engine queries?
 
With all due respect, you are mischaracterizing the evidence. Badly.

The head injury is the trauma referenced. It occurred before he became hypothermic in the cold. The hypothermia caused the red condition/hemorrhaging in the pancreas and stomach.

This does NOT say he sustained internal injuries from being hit by a vehicle. In fact, it says something completely different.

I'm going to quote one more time verbatim from the document.

"Dr. Scordi-Bello opined from her examination that significant blunt force trauma injuries occurred
prior to Mr. O'Keefe becoming hypothermic, as evidenced by hemorrhaging in his pancreas and stomach."

Didn't say it mentioned a vehicle. But show me where it says hypothermia caused the hemorrhaging. Quote the words.

Also, that part does not mention the head injury, it is mentioned later though and it says all the skull fractures and the black eyes were a result of an injury to the back of the head.
 
I'd need to see the testimony, somehow, of proof those items were not with JO at the scene. IF they were found, you'd think the ALBERTS who lived there or 'FRIENDS' would be looking for those items in the street, yard, would of turned them in, but so far NO word of those items. How can they say oh I found them.um. in the bushes. How could the cops not go looking for those items either, IF they didn't. So have to hear some sort of real truth on that. ugh. all mixed in together those people unfortunately. I had put out a thought that if JO was being attacked by the dog as well inside or even outside, he'd be trying to kick the dog away/off him, dog mangled the shoe. If shoe was presented, it would prob have bite marks in it, so there you go, dog attack. The cap I don't know but it was left out for a reason. If a belt, it may of been removed when EMT's attending to JO in the ambulance and just lost. He was not being looked at as a victim of a suspicious death it seems, but hit by the suv as KR was saying it was possible. So prob not meticulous caring of his belongings. Horrible situation with the 'investigation' or those attending and NOT attending. ( ALBERT NEVER CAME OUT OF HIS HOUSE).
In the CW's opposition to defendant's motion to dismiss (link below, thanks for finding this, Hope4More!), on page 18 it states the other shoe was found, along with two red pieces of taillight plastic, in the same area JOK was found.

Also, pages 21/22 are interesting, it talks about street camera videos (a library and a Temple) and KR's cell records that they use to plot her travel after leaving JOK's home the early morning of Jan. 29th, where on her way over to Jen McCabe's house she traveled towards the Waterfall and also the vicinity of 34 Fairview.

I'm no crime scene expert but nothing about the prosecution's view of the events that late night outside the Albert's home make sense to me.

And if I were on the jury I would disregard most of the state's witness testimony, nearly everyone has shown themselves not to be credible (and even incredible [butt dials being answered by butt dials??]), but if the state does show in trial what is in the SOC, about her going over by 34 Fairview *before* going to Jen McCabe's to look for him, it makes me wonder what she actually knew about JOK's whereabouts.

Did she go past 34 Fairview and see him covered in snow, and still go on to Jen's, leaving him for another hour+ in the snow? Was she just looking in areas they had been in the night before, hoping to spot him? I don't know, but that bit of info threw me for a loop.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
60
Guests online
2,900
Total visitors
2,960

Forum statistics

Threads
603,239
Messages
18,153,724
Members
231,682
Latest member
Sleutherine
Back
Top