MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #8

[Elliot_Alderson]

Isn't it funny that Proctor has a beautiful picture of the back of JO's vehicle, but not one of KR's? That is not proof that she didn't hit it.

Also, for those claiming that he had a reason to suspect her from the beginning - he didn't even TRY to investigate ANY OTHER theory!! They didn't even go IN the house where the victim was found to investigate anything. They didn't separate and question anyone else. He said in his own words - Nope, it is a Boston cop's house - nothing to see here. That is reasonable to assume he came in with bias and didn't investigate his "brothers"

They never investigated anyone else because his first “interview” was with the Alberts and you know how it went from there. His own texts said they have nothing to worry about because he’s a cop. That right there shows he had no intention of investigating anyone in that house.

 

[arielilane]

Placing this right here.

Alan Jackson | Werksman Jackson & Quinn LLP

Alan Jackson is a partner at Werksman Jackson & Quinn LLP and a legal analyst. Call Mr. Jackson at (213) 688-0460 to discuss your criminal matter.

werksmanjackson.com

 

[mzmarymac]

Are we allowed to state what our theories are as to what actually happened? If not, please feel free to delete. If OK, I'll go first, but would love to here other theories.

I believe that JOK went into the home. Everyone was drinking. There was some sort of loud argument that occurred, likely about KR. I think Brian Higgins probably mouthed off about Karen "wanting him" and JOK took offense. Maybe there was some physical altercation at that point, or just loud verbal, and Chloe got into the fray, attacked JOK and and he was gravely wounded at that point, with several bite marks on the arm and with everyone jumping in to pull them apart, probably the head injury.

At that point, I feel JOK was either thrown out of the house or left once he was able to. He tried to begin walking away and collapsed on the lawn, half because he was drunk and half because he'd been attacked. Somewhere along the line, I'd say about 2:30, someone looked out the window and saw his body laying there and freaked out. OMG he's been out there for how long??? Shoot...let's Google, hos long to die....

At that point they really didn't know what to do. I don't think any of them went to bed that night. Will he just wake up at some point and make his way home? Will he remember what happened? Will he just die there, or is he already dead? A few calls were made and deleted. But I know a LOT of people who would cover for their pets over covering for their own family and friends. Maybe they felt it was Chloe's fault and didn't want her to be put down. Plus, whatever everyone else was thinking. I think at that point, they decided they knew "nothing." The rest just played itself out and the "evidence" began to point to KR and they ran with it.

 

[mzmarymac]

Placing this right here.

Alan Jackson | Werksman Jackson & Quinn LLP

Alan Jackson is a partner at Werksman Jackson & Quinn LLP and a legal analyst. Call Mr. Jackson at (213) 688-0460 to discuss your criminal matter.

werksmanjackson.com

Very convenient. I know exactly who I'm going to contact if I find myself getting framed for a crime I didn't commit.

 

[mzmarymac]

I would in a heartbeat and would be collecting all the social media posts for my civil suit.

I personally do not believe any of these people want to be exposed any more than they already are. Now...if we are talking death threats, that is a whole other matter and those should be reported. But most of this sounds like the typical level of harassment one tends to see in high profile cases.

 

[jepop]

It's not the defenses job to "prove" their theory. It IS the prosecutions job to PROVE theirs! They have been so busy defending the defenses theory, they have YET to PROVE their case. Court is about innocent until proven GUILTY. They have yet to even prove how he was killed or that he was killed by her.





The worst part is, we wouldn't likely be here discussing this if the DA hadn't upped the charge to murder- which indicates intent to kill. The thing about it is - ALL of them were drinking. All of them were driving home drunk. They have not proven it was her car that hit and killed him. Quite the opposite, when the Federal investigator comes up for the defense, he will testify that it was NOT an auto accident. There is remarkably no surveillance video of her doing anything of the sort that night - or of backing up at a high rate of speed around a bend in the road - drunk!!

Her taillight being broken is NOT proof that he was killed by her car. It is proof that it was cracked that night; and there is video surveillance of her hitting JO's car that night. The tire literally moves. There is no proof that she didn't crack it on his vehicle because she barely hit it and if a taillight his his car it is less likely to damage his (taillight is not as strong as the body of a car).

RBBM yeah if the common sense argument is applied (she was driving, she was drunk, she was there) then it could just as well have been Higgins, who fits perfectly except that it appears his vehicle and plow were never once analysed or even looked over. I'm using this only as eg to debunk the asserted common sense premise.jmo

 

[kittythehare]

Start with it's a common scenario: a drinking while driving incident.

Then she admits to basic facts: she was drinking, she dropped him off there, she made a turn around in a blizzard, in the dark, with him nearby

Then her tailight is broken

Sure all of this was poorly documented by bafoons but the evidence is all there.

There is no evidence in what you posted that she killed him.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Covered entities​

Criminal penalties for HIPAA violations are directly applicable to covered entities (CE) including:

• Health plans
• Health care clearinghouses
• Health care providers who transmit claims in electronic form
• Medicare prescription drug card sponsors

HIPAA violations & enforcement

Download the HIPAA toolkit—be advised on how the Department of Health and Human Services enforces HIPAA's privacy and security rules and how it handles violations.

www.ama-assn.org

Yes Aquarian I fear that may be the case. But IANAL and have only dealt with federal HIPAA laws for some limited prior professional work experience, medical records for my children, and the death of my late father.

So I am not sure what applies; maybe there are some MA state regulations that also apply or govern such conduct? And Derph notes above in post #54 compelling reasons why medical health records should remain sacrosanct IMO. (And surely one would think in the hands of any professional and in particular law enforcement or an investigator it would be treated as such.)

As someone on this (or most recent) thread in this case asked last night IIRC, perhaps a key remaining question is: the source for where / how proctor obtained the sensitive KR health information. One might believe it was either i) from KR personal phone and / or ii) her confidential medical health records?

Perhaps federal investigators will mine some good heavy ‘lead’ on those questions and eventually it will be learned. And that might lead to some other corrective or punitive actions.

I won’t waste any time or effort on the apparent ‘motives’ or reasons for proctor having shared such delicate health information on the defendant. But perhaps once the results of the investigation and this case are complete maybe some more things will be public in regard to his actions in this case? MOO

 

[ch_13]

Aren’t bar glasses typically really bottom heavy and thick? I imagine the bottom of a bar glass is the hardest to break and the most obvious piece to look for.
That’s the piece I’d look for.

I'm afraid I don't follow. The bottom of John's glass isn't missing at all.

I don't know if you've been watching the trial but it was one of the first pieces of evidence introduced:

The only pieces missing are the ones along the glass's rim. But those don't correspond to the glass found on Karen Read's bumper. Those were completely unrelated glass shards according to the police's own forensic scientist.

 

[arielilane]

Are we allowed to state what our theories are as to what actually happened? If not, please feel free to delete. If OK, I'll go first, but would love to here other theories.

I believe that JOK went into the home. Everyone was drinking. There was some sort of loud argument that occurred, likely about KR. I think Brian Higgins probably mouthed off about Karen "wanting him" and JOK took offense. Maybe there was some physical altercation at that point, or just loud verbal, and Chloe got into the fray, attacked JOK and and he was gravely wounded at that point, with several bite marks on the arm and with everyone jumping in to pull them apart, probably the head injury.

rsbm: regarding your theory wouldn't there have been many people at the scene? How many if you can recall? TIA Too many for me to recall. Would that many people remain silent as to the truth about what happened?

Additionally, wouldn't some of them care if a man is left outside to die alone? idk. I know several were family members, iirc. Being under the( Alcohol) influence is worse than I thought. moo

 

[Derph]

Had EMS in your case divulged your reason for transport, that would be a HIPPA violation because they were medical providers. If the officers had done so, it would not be a HIPPA violation because they are not your medical providers. I suspect, however, that it’s standard policy for most (all? I would hope, anyway) police forces to have a blanket policy against divulging information on calls they attend or are aware of. So the officers in your case probably were following department policy not to divulge your medical info, as well as just being decent humans. It doesn’t appear Proctor was too worried about doing either of these things.

Thanks! Great couple of posts explaining things and I appreciate your comments.

 

[cocomod]

RBBM yeah if the common sense argument is applied (she was driving, she was drunk, she was there) then it could just as well have been Higgins, who fits perfectly except that it appears his vehicle and plow were never once analysed or even looked over. I'm using this only as eg to debunk the asserted common sense premise.jmo

Exactly!! There was way shady stuff that happened after that party. Why did he go in to work drunk?

 

[TTF14]

Did Proctor know Karen Read before John's death? I'm trying to figure out his instant hatred of her if not.

 

[jepop]

Exactly!! There was way shady stuff that happened after that party. Why did he go in to work drunk?

Yeah I think in other posts I've suggested I'm pretty suss re Higgins but it's pure speculation thanks to the sub par 'investigation' (if that term should even be used for JO's case without causing offence to those many LE departments elsewhere who carry out their investigations with integrity.and intelligence)Moo

 

[Seni]

Did Proctor know Karen Read before John's death? I'm trying to figure out his instant hatred of her if not.

Proctor testified that he had never met Karen Read before the 29th.

 

[TTF14]

Proctor testified that he had never met Karen Read before the 29th.

Thank you. That's what I thought I heard. How did he so quickly form the opinion that she's a "whack job" I wonder.

 

[Curiousobserver]

There is no evidence in what you posted that she killed him.

But the question was why would you think she did after only 18 hours, not how did he prove it after only 18 hours. Why he thought she did it is pretty obvious.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Proctor testified that he had never met Karen Read before the 29th.

Interesting and thanks for including this Seni. Never ‘met’ her apparently.

But was he familiar with who she is, did he know who she was, or know of her perhaps? As TTF14 notes how did someone (proctor) apparently have such instant apparent ‘contempt’ or judgement of KR? (My choice of words….. not sure what to call his seeming instantaneous and continued malignment of the defendant?) MOO

 

[kittythehare]

But the question was why would you think she did after only 18 hours, not how did he prove it after only 18 hours. Why he thought she did it is pretty obvious.

all that is obvious is that he has a grave absence of critical thinking skills and entered an investigative process with a dangerous amount of prejudice and has completely abandoned ethical police procedures.

 

[Soulmagent]

At that point they really didn't know what to do. I don't think any of them went to bed that night. Will he just wake up at some point and make his way home?

I snipped ,hope you don't mind but your post made me wonder what everyone's plans were for the following day and what normal routines did everyone miss the following day ?
I haven't watched much testimony but most of these people seem to old for all night house parties and carefree days lacking responsibilities .
Also ,has this dog really just vanished ?
If I was the defendant or her lawyer I might print up a missing dog poster with a large reward , but I am not up to date yet.