MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Based on previous descriptions, I expected to see a lot more diapers....
 
iamnotagolem said:
Based on previous descriptions, I expected to see a lot more diapers....
Click to expand...

I'm going to guess they cleaned out or moved around a lot of the stuff before taking the pics that were released (at least the ones we've seen so far). I think some of the descriptions in the media were taking things out of context or sensationalizing (as if it needed to be) some things, "diapers piled to the ceiling in some areas" translates to the diapers/debris were piled the sloping eaves of the house..Technically that would be the ceiling/roof but they're stretching it a bit and leave people with a appalling mental pic. I really hate dramatic, sensational journalism.

You know, we've discussed the children and animals that lived and died in that disaster but I really feel for the first responders/hazmat/city officials too. Nothing could've prepared them for the horror in that home. That one city admin guy was definitely affected by this situation. There were a couple of times I thought he was going to cry as tears were welling up in his eyes. I'm certain there are more situations like this or worse, many going unreported or ignored...But as an "every day Joe" I would've never been able to imagine something as abominable as the Blackstone house. While the fault lies with the perpetrators, I can't help but feel the family/close friends failed these children...and to some extent the parents. After seeing the photos, I know in my heart there is no way those children didn't carry some type of offensive, noticeable odor from the house. If they couldn't bathe/shower then the odor would've been exacerbated, IMO. RR worked at an office supply place I believe and he must've had some type of management position or something that gave him his own extension. I recall reading that his voice mailbox said he was going to be out indefinitely (paraphrasing). Just the fact he had a voice mailbox says he wasn't just a sales associate. There were fly strips in the basement where he reportedly "lived" yet his clothing didn't smell? No BO from lack of showers? Although maybe that was what all the water bottles/jugs were for - personal hygiene.

I hope with the holidays on the horizon these children are able to have a somewhat normal Thanksgiving/Christmas. I'd like to imagine the the little ones lighting up over the magic of Christmas, maybe tearing open brightly wrapped gifts, and having their little tummies full of all the yummy holiday food. I wish there was a way to contribute something to all of the children, whether for the holidays or just in general. I wish instead of posting pics of the horrible conditions in the home, they would've give us updates on the children. *sigh* I wish, I wish, I wish. :gaah:
 
passionflower said:
RR never used he kitchen or bathroom? From the pictures, the kitchen was horrible also.
Didn't they ever have garbage removal?
Click to expand...

I recall an interview with a neighbor who was talking about RR always taking EM everywhere because she didn't drive. In the interview the neighbor said RR would take EM to the grocery store, and he would see them unloading the groceries together. So according to the neighbor, RR definitely had eyes-on knowledge of what that disgusting kitchen was like. And unless there comes to light, medical verification RR has absolutely no sense of smell, I will never believe he was unaware of the decomposition taking place in his very own home. Horrid conditions those children lived in, and IMO, this man is equally as responsible for their neglect as EM. It just infuriates me that he has yet to be charged.
 
Maybe there just haven't been pictures of them but did anyone see anywhere to sit in this home? Other than the beds and 1 chair (with a broken back), I could not make out one space to sit. (not that anyone would really want to sit in this home)

We sure saw a lot of electronic equipment boxes but I saw no television, gaming system, computers, etc. (that I expected to see). The pink room appears to have the largest pile of dirty diapers that I could identify, and I finally saw 1 box of diapers that was out on top of a table. I wonder if the closet with the children's clothing hanging from the pole is also the same closet that the dead babies hung.

Is it common for folks to primarily use bottled water in this area? I know some places have water that doesn't taste good unless it is referigerated but I was taken aback by seeing this amount of bottles. It seems so sad - hundreds of plastic bottles/bags/packaging littering every walking surface. Apparently Mass. is not a recycling state like we have in the Pacific NW.

I wonder if the bath was leaking (see bottom of wall towards door side of the bathroom) - looks to be mold growing up the wall a few inches. I also wonder if the roof was leaking in this home - previous exterior pics looked like roofing shingles were cupping above the right of the front door.

Why is every dresser, table, piece of furniture upturned and turned to the walls? I can't imagine first responders would even attempt to tend to the babies in that home (since they were stable to move). I doubt LEO would want to move too much in that home before documenting with pictures how they found the conditions these children (and 2 adults) endured on a daily/hourly basis.
 
This looks like a hoarders house!

I am beginning to think the handprints in feces are from the two older children when they were toddlers. The two hidden babies upstairs did not walk. The 5 month old was too young and the 3 year old did not use her arms and legs correctly. Those poor older children, and what they have been through.
 
Image 13 in this linkhttp://www.milforddailynews.com/article/20141107/NEWS/141107012

is that the dining room??? :notgood:
 
Every day that passes RR is not arrested/charged speaks volumes to the public and perspective jurors. I feel it's doing nothing but helping the defense at this point. The defense has alluded to the fact she may be mentally ill. Yet the fact he hasn't been arrested/charged seem to say he's not. So he lived in that house too and SHE'S the only one allegedly mentally ill? I won't go into all my feelings of what picture this may paint for a jury. Not to mention the public and the willingness of any woman that may be suffering from mental illness, abuse, or both. I know it wouldn't make me want to reach out for help in that state. Let me lay out my thoughts - RR may use drugs, he may sell drugs, he lived in abhorrent conditions with knowledge his children and his gf "baby sat" other young children, he's probably still employed, AND may be able to have contact with the older two kids...Yep, that seems fair. :facepalm:

Another thing I found interesting is that her attorney admitted she hadn't seen a doctor in at least a decade. So I'd guess per his statement we can assume her bizarre behavior can't be blamed on psychotropic meds. As I stated in my previous post, RR has to have some level of intelligence or he wouldn't be employed. I would be interested to know his job title/responsibilities. Does anyone know? He may lack common sense but I'd be willing to bet his IQ level is higher than 70. Same as EM, she communicated very clearly. Her proper spelling/grammar, comprehension, and the fact she graduated high school points to the fact she is far from that as well. EM knew what was happening, covered it up, played the victim, etc. She was smart enough to do that and live a charade - crazy.like.a.fox. EM's parent's, particularly the mom, sets off my hinky meter in a major way.

So what do or don't we know?
- What job/job title/job responsibilities did RR have that people would call into directly?

- What happened to his card playing buddy from early on?

- What do the autopsy report/ME report have to do with RR?

- Why is this taking so long? They've already pushed it to Jan 2015, I think.
 
SaucyGal said:
Every day that passes RR is not arrested/charged speaks volumes to the public and perspective jurors. I feel it's doing nothing but helping the defense at this point. The defense has alluded to the fact she may be mentally ill. Yet the fact he hasn't been arrested/charged seem to say he's not. So he lived in that house too and SHE'S the only one allegedly mentally ill? I won't go into all my feelings of what picture this may paint for a jury. Not to mention the public and the willingness of any woman that may be suffering from mental illness, abuse, or both. I know it wouldn't make me want to reach out for help in that state. Let me lay out my thoughts - RR may use drugs, he may sell drugs, he lived in abhorrent conditions with knowledge his children and his gf "baby sat" other young children, he's probably still employed, AND may be able to have contact with the older two kids...Yep, that seems fair. :facepalm:

Another thing I found interesting is that her attorney admitted she hadn't seen a doctor in at least a decade. So I'd guess per his statement we can assume her bizarre behavior can't be blamed on psychotropic meds. As I stated in my previous post, RR has to have some level of intelligence or he wouldn't be employed. I would be interested to know his job title/responsibilities. Does anyone know? He may lack common sense but I'd be willing to bet his IQ level is higher than 70. Same as EM, she communicated very clearly. Her proper spelling/grammar, comprehension, and the fact she graduated high school points to the fact she is far from that as well. EM knew what was happening, covered it up, played the victim, etc. She was smart enough to do that and live a charade - crazy.like.a.fox. EM's parent's, particularly the mom, sets off my hinky meter in a major way.

So what do or don't we know?

- What job/job title/job responsibilities did RR have that people would call into directly?
Click to expand...

Just googled RR & Staples...this is what came up. According to this, he might'be been an account manager.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ray-rivera/33/459/4

"He was not living in the basement. There was no bathroom in the basement. There was no kitchen in the basement. He wasn't sleeping in the basement," Mr. Halpern said. "The notion that he didn't know what was going on in the rest of the house is ridiculous. This is a level of blindness that's just impossible to understand. It makes no sense."
Click to expand...

http://www.telegram.com/article/20140917/NEWS/309179856/1116

I continue to be baffled and outraged by the fact that RR is still free to live his life as he wants.
 
iamnotagolem said:
Image 13 in this linkhttp://www.milforddailynews.com/article/20141107/NEWS/141107012

is that the dining room??? :notgood:
Click to expand...

I thought that at first - but the only room that I knew had brick wall showing was in the basement near the laundry area. I didn't see exposed brick in any other rooms, but it would be interesting if this is in the basement because there are diapers in the box in this picture. This is the only pic I have seen of clean diapers in a box. I kept looking for boxes from shipping them to the house (as we had speculated EM kept the babies secret from RR).
 
When I saw that bathroom, I thought the same thing . . . she gave birth in that bathroom? Then again, it was probably one of the cleanest rooms in the house. How did this entire family not have infections, flea bites, vermin bites/scratches, etc? EM had not been to see a physician in over a decade (according to Halpern), wanna bet on whether the kids did either? I know they would have had to have immunizations to enter school and maybe RR had insurance coverage on the kids but not on EM (since they weren't married).
 
1&2&3 said:
This looks like a hoarders house!

I am beginning to think the handprints in feces are from the two older children when they were toddlers. The two hidden babies upstairs did not walk. The 5 month old was too young and the 3 year old did not use her arms and legs correctly. Those poor older children, and what they have been through.
Click to expand...

I am right along with you! Unless EM kept moving the bed with the 3 y/o around the room, up toward the ceiling, next to the window, in the other kids' room, etc. . . . all of those feces smears on the wall did not come from the 3 y/o who could not use her arms or walk! I am beginning to wonder if RR & EM didn't lock those kids in the bedrooms upstairs while they spent all their time in the basement.

There is no place to sit on the main floor of this home (that we could see), except one broken chair in the kitchen. The only "seating" was in the basement around the coffee table o'weed or on the beds.

After seeing the conditions of the home, I am kind of glad those babies weren't taken down to the main floor. They would have been lost forever in all of that debris!
I also thought the handprint in feces (actually quite high on the wall) was not the 3 y/o's either. My immediate thought was that hand is the size of a 5 or 6 y/o child (like the handprints sent home from school). It is tough to get "scale" with the pictures but it just looked like a bigger hand print and it was too high for the 3 y/o to reach by herself (IMO).

I am also wondering if the older kids ever changed the babies diapers. Would the older kids just wipe their hands on the walls if soiled? If this was their "normal" way of life - then I could see that happening.

I want to know the stories coming out from the older kids about how they endured life in that home. I want to know what they are now telling about their homelife - since they are no longer required to keep the family secrets. I saw where the 3 y/o was undergoing intense therapy and is making significant gains (per Halpern), but any gain at this point with that child should be significant! This case reminds me so much of the Gore case -where that little girl was left in an upside down crib for 6 years, eating her own hair, skin & feces. I wonder if this is an issue with this 3 y/o since it was probably what was "normal" for her too.

One of the pics (in the link with the picture of the plaid chair in the basement) also had what appeared to be a (baby?) scrapbook laying in the filth (down in lower left corner - baby blue in color with gold).
 
sapofamily said:
From Milford Daily News, "police release photos of Blackstone house interior"...some repeats, but a few of these photos are different than those on previous links. Possibly a photo of the dining room, some basement photos (washer/dryer), and additional pictures of the family's bathroom.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/article/20141107/NEWS/141107012
Click to expand...

Image 4 of 14 shows two baby formula containers (one with yellow lid, another with a purple lid).

Another handful of baby formula containers (yellow lids) in Image 6 of 14.

I'm really happy to see formula containers. That gives me a little bit more hope for those babies.

Also, in Image 8 of 14, I'm pretty sure that's a box for a Diaper Genie at the very back of a closet. What irony!
 
The kitchen and bathroom aren't that bad, they aren't remotely clean, but they aren't to the point of being unusable/inaccessible.

I guess what I'm trying to say is either one could be sparkling within a day's effort. Not the rest of the house, though. (except the dining area) Guests that come to the door would only be seeing the kitchen/dining area, and though filthy and cluttered, there was plenty of floor to be seen which indicates that they were tidied on occasion.

Also, It seems that most of the filth upstairs was in the room with the bottles. The other room was filthy, too, but there was far less "trash" and more "cluttered objects mixed with random trash". I'm wondering what the closet looked like.
 
I wonder who bought the baby formula? If Erika didn't have an income(?) and didn't report the two youngest children, she most likely didn't receive WIC or government assistance for them. If they did report RR as living in the home, they may still qualify for low income as a family of 4...but, how did she explain to RR that she was buying formula? (I know this question has already been raised, but now we see evidence of these things).

Also found irony in the diaper genie in the closet. Wonder if it was from one of the older children when they previously lived at her parent's home? Many of the dresses & stuffed animals in the photos appear to have been around awhile as if they belonged to her 13 yo daughter.
 
sapofamily said:
This looks it could be the living room or possibly a 'gathering room' with the plaster coming off the wall, exposing the lath IMO.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/sto...S/141107012/EP/1/12/EP-141107012.jpg&MaxW=315
Click to expand...

Looking at image 13 again, I am having second thoughts re: this being on the main level. I thought it was a gathering/living room and wenwe4 suggested it might be the basement -- which, if it is the basement, we have the packages of diapers...

There is a shovel & other tools hanging on the wall, a box from a Craftsman toolbox(?), a snow sled, snow cone machine, yahtzee(?), is that a paper shredder on the table?

/end of random observations.
 
A few more random observations/thoughts. In images 28 & 29/44, the "clean BR", we see several a relatively new bed and new electronic equipment: a Vizio box, HP printer. Who do we speculate slept in here? What about the 10 yo boy. Did he & RR live in the basement? There doesn't seem to be too many boy things in these photos. :(

Also, image 43/33 shows the upstairs layout (2 BRS on ends of house & pink BR in middle).

IMAGE 28 http://wjar.images.worldnow.com/images/5642292_G.jpg
IMAGE 29 http://wjar.images.worldnow.com/images/5642293_G.jpg
IMAGE 43 http://wjar.images.worldnow.com/images/5642308_G.jpg

edited for correction
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 200 more.
Total: 2,173 (members: 201, guests: 1,972)

Online statistics

Members online
201
Guests online
1,972
Total visitors
2,173
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
599,347
Messages
18,094,830
Members
230,851
Latest member
kendybee
Back
Top