MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Electric Sheep]

i think who one is dating is a pretty common discussion topic, and generally of much interest to most parents. Even more so if you are approaching the "tick-tock" milestone of 30.

I don't think that 30 is a tick tock milestone these days.

 

[zoso]

I don't think she was seeing someone, I think she was randomly attacked or Snubbed a catcalling harasser who got mad and escalated the entire thing to a capital crime. Local or stranger. Neighbor or visitor. Don't know.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don't think that 30 is a tick tock milestone these days.

Well now that deserves a whole topic thread of its own. ; )

 

[ThinkHard]

i think who one is dating is a pretty common discussion topic, and generally of much interest to most parents. Even more so if you are approaching the "tick-tock" milestone of 30.

Right when they are "officially dating" that might be true but often not when the relationship isn't "official official".....usually then girls don't tell their parents.

Also as someone just slightly older then VM but in all other ways in almost an identical social status....btw growing up in the same place and sharing many many many other commonalities and having many peers that fall into the same categories.....

People around here just marry later for the most part, they just a don't get harassed about when they are getting married, an no one looks at 30 as critical age. The only people who got married hound around here are those that stayed local for college and got married right after, or those that never went to college at all and got married young. But for those that go away and persue careers in NYC, the marry age is definelt way later....with no pressure.

I know in places like the south people get married way younger, but that's just not the case up here, at least not for my peer group, which would be very similar to VM.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think she was seeing someone, I think she was randomly attacked or Snubbed a catcalling harasser who got mad and escalated the entire thing to a capital crime. Local or stranger. Neighbor or visitor. Don't know.

The location honestly just doesn't make sense for that kind of crime.

 

[compassionate]

What if it was someone who knew her that picked her up in a vehicle. Someone things led to murder somewhere else.....but his property or family property has access to the woods that directly abut that path. Meaning he could have disposed of her body by "going in the back way" leaving her body close enough to the road to look like a random stranger danger, but far enough back so he couldn't be seen from the road.

It would explain tire tracks maybe along the entrance to that path, or even reports of a girl and a slow car and a u turn and then just a car but no girl. Also why the path wouldn't be flattened.

Perhaps people have seen her with this person before and it has to do with some of the tips.

Ok, taking this theory from ThinkHard, how arrogant it seems to me, to dispose of her body in broad daylight from property connected to him or his family. And further, if, under this theory Perp was known to and knew Vanessa in the sense of being seen together sometimes, then he knew her dead body was a half mile from her mom and aunt. Again, how chillingly arrogant this would be. A perp like that could well be Harvard-lawyered up to the teeth now, too.

For myself I am still liking RosesfromAngels notion that this man was a watcher....

But all interesting to consider.

I do clearly remember that LE went to the adjacent house the night Vanessa's body was found. I cannot find the cite, but one of the news articles mentioned that the homeowners were called upon by the State Police detectives at a very late hour, like 1:30 am or so. I remember thinking both how hard the detectives were working and how shocking it would be to have the police come to you in the middle of the night like that, etc.

 

[Mainely16]

IMO, I doubt it was someone she was dating/intending to meet. IMO, someone in her life would have known about a date, a bf or some kind of dalliance. I really don't see any reason why she wouldn't share that information with at least one friend, and that friend likely would have stepped up by now.

As we all know,, investigators look at romantic partners first. All communication on her phone or on any other kind of personal device was fully and immediately sourced. If any info were relevant, I would think it would have been released? IDK. There is ALWAYS some kind of trail these days leading to where we go, whom we see and talk to, and what we do. We are talking about a 27 year old in an amazing city, in a highly socially interactive job with lots of similarly aged and educated people. Why she would hide someone she is seeing from EVERYONE would be beyond me.

In the Terri/Missy Bevers case (gosh, I am still tormented by that murder and lack of information), information about Missy's "romantic" social interactions was found and released immediately even though it was thought to be secret and "scandalous" since it was outside of marriage. I can't think of a reason LE wouldn't have found some kind of trail in Vanessa's case if there were one, and used it to their advantage.

Also, wasn't she just about to leave to go back to NYC? I don't see why she'd set up a rushed and clandestine date. IMO, it's more likely that she just wanted to take a peaceful jaunt before returning to a life beset by honking taxi cabs and urine-soaked subway stations. J/k. It's so amazing. (I am not insulting the city. I loveddddd living in NYC!)

For the locals, I grew up in Sterling. At the age of 12, we moved to West Boylston. I went to Worcester Academy. (Every time I see statements about how Bancroft is by far the best private school in the area, I want to scream, then remind myself this is not about school pride.) At Worcester Academy, I had many friends from the Holden/surrounding area. I later taught school in Boylston, and many of the teachers were long time Princeton and Rutland residents. I have spoken to one of the Princeton teachers, and IHHO (and f & f), she believes that it's a stalking-type situation that may have followed from NYC or...not. An ex-bf's mom in Holden won't walk alone anymore, and hits the roads with at least two friends. She thinks it's a local.

Anyhow, for locals, if LE thought a monster were on the loose, do you feel they would be acting differently? Are they?

Would they be patrolling more and disseminating more warnings? Are they?

Argh.

IDK. Like all of us, I am so baffled and so very sad.


All of this is speculation and the results of thinking out loud.

 

[ThinkHard]

IMO, I doubt it was someone she was dating/intending to meet. IMO, someone in her life would have known about a date, a bf or some kind of dalliance. I really don't see any reason why she wouldn't share that information with at least one friend, and that friend likely would have stepped up by now.

As we all know,, investigators look at romantic partners first. All communication on her phone or on any other kind of personal device was fully and immediately sourced. If any info were relevant, I would think it would have been released? IDK. There is ALWAYS some kind of trail these days leading to where we go, whom we see and talk to, and what we do. We are talking about a 27 year old in an amazing city, in a highly socially interactive job with lots of similarly aged and educated people. Why she would hide someone she is seeing from EVERYONE would be beyond me.

In the Terri/Missy Bevers case (gosh, I am still tormented by that murder and lack of information), information about Missy's "romantic" social interactions was found and released immediately even though it was thought to be secret and "scandalous" since it was outside of marriage. I can't think of a reason LE wouldn't have found some kind of trail in Vanessa's case if there were one, and used it to their advantage.

Also, wasn't she just about to leave to go back to NYC? I don't see why she'd set up a rushed and clandestine date. IMO, it's more likely that she just wanted to take a peaceful jaunt before returning to a life beset by honking taxi cabs and urine-soaked subway stations. J/k. It's so amazing. (I am not insulting the city. I loveddddd living in NYC!)

For the locals, I grew up in Sterling. At the age of 12, we moved to West Boylston. I went to Worcester Academy. (Every time I see statements about how Bancroft is by far the best private school in the area, I want to scream, then remind myself this is not about school pride.) At Worcester Academy, I had many friends from the Holden/surrounding area. I later taught school in Boylston, and many of the teachers were long time Princeton and Rutland residents. I have spoken to one of the Princeton teachers, and IHHO (and f & f), she believes that it's a stalking-type situation that may have followed from NYC or...not. An ex-bf's mom in Holden won't walk alone anymore, and hits the roads with at least two friends. She thinks it's a local.

Anyhow, for locals, if LE thought a monster were on the loose, do you feel they would be acting differently? Are they?

Would they be patrolling more and disseminating more warnings? Are they?

Argh.

IDK. Like all of us, I am so baffled and so very sad.


All of this is speculation and the results of thinking out loud.

Again, just because we haven't heard details about contact in her phone or possible people she could have been seeing, doesn't mean LE hasn't.

It's very possible that they do know this information and are following leads in this direction, they might even be able to prove a certain persons had contact with her that day, but they might not have proof that sane person actually killed her. They could be keeping anything they do know very close to the vest in order to preserve the integrity of the investigation, particularly if they are up against pricey lawyers.

I'm just saying, just because we haven't heard, we also haven't heard otherwise, as LE has kept most all info prey sparse.

 

[zoso]

I didn't mean like a catcalling construction worker on a NY street, I was more thinking a creep in a car, slowing down, arm out the window. Said something, didn't like her uninterested response. This then became a stalking situation where the perp possibly parked at Mt. Barn and ran to the path or it happened right at the cart path. He pulled over and ran after her. This is just me trying to make sense of how seemingly impulsive, unthinking and violent this crime was in broad daylight. No attempt to hide the body. This all happened fast imo.

I still kind of think the electric company or mt barn plays a role in this.

Also, I think the perp returned after the fact and did all the burning...so to commit the crime, have access to torch or accelerant, return to scene, I'm thinking he may have had a vehicle at mt. Barn or electric company or live locally. No way the car was parked on the path inlet and he was going back and forth. There would have been witnesses.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

This is my first posting so apologies for any breech of procedure in advance. IMHO this has to be a random killing . New Yorker would be ill at ease , stand out, not know the turf. Obviously bright burning DNA. But this seems like a classic sexual predator hunting an isolated prey that fits his pornographic fantasy- young , fit, pretty. He had the opportunity. She crossed his path , no one was around, and he overpowered her. IMHO I don't think he was her boyfriend that she met biweekly because if you came home to see each other you'd probably want to go to bed not take a walk ?

 

[femalejogger]

A couple of random thoughts:
I don't think she was going to MA because of a guy. Instead, I wonder if her living situation in NYC wasn't ideal. Even with a decent job, living in Manhattan is tough. I assume she had at least one roommate and a very small apartment. She could get some space and air in Princeton. Or perhaps her roommate started dating someone and wasn't available for socializing on weekends. Or maybe she just wasn't a city girl.

This may be wishful thinking, but I am wondering if LE already has a suspect in custody - for something completely unrelated to this case. For instance, if the guy was on probation for an earlier conviction, they may have been able to charge him with a probation violation for some minor infraction. This would give LE time to build their case while not jeopardizing the safety of the community by leaving a known violent offender free.

Regarding running with headphones: I don't typically run with earbuds - probably because I started running before the Walkman debuted - and I was always horrified when I saw young women with them. A couple of summers ago, I went through a stretch where I did run (on a pedestrian only path) with earbuds. Much to my surprise, my hearing was not negatively impacted. In fact, the earbuds helped filter out the noise created by wind resistance so I could hear man-made sounds more clearly. Admittedly, I kept the music volume down so my experience may be not be applicable to the average young person.

 

[FindHG]

This is my first posting so apologies for any breech of procedure in advance. IMHO this has to be a random killing . New Yorker would be ill at ease , stand out, not know the turf. Obviously bright burning DNA. But this seems like a classic sexual predator hunting an isolated prey that fits his pornographic fantasy- young , fit, pretty. He had the opportunity. She crossed his path , no one was around, and he overpowered her. IMHO I don't think he was her boyfriend that she met biweekly because if you came home to see each other you'd probably want to go to bed not take a walk ?

:welcome6:​

Thank you for pitching in, Sheila Terranova. You're first post makes great sense. The mods are diligent and gracious, if you ever have any questions, though your post seems perfectly fine.

Femalejogger, you're random thoughts are pretty solid.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is my first posting so apologies for any breech of procedure in advance. IMHO this has to be a random killing . New Yorker would be ill at ease , stand out, not know the turf. Obviously bright burning DNA. But this seems like a classic sexual predator hunting an isolated prey that fits his pornographic fantasy- young , fit, pretty. He had the opportunity. She crossed his path , no one was around, and he overpowered her. IMHO I don't think he was her boyfriend that she met biweekly because if you came home to see each other you'd probably want to go to bed not take a walk ?

Why would a NYC residents DNA be "bright and burning" compared to a local? That makes no sense to me. DNA is DNA if it's not in the system it's not gonna be burning any brighter (whatever that even means). If the perp was from NYC it doesn't mean his DNA was in the system.

Also the location is just too random for someone to happen to just come across her.

I do not in any capacity think this was random crime and I don't think the police feel it is either.

I think there silence is to protect the integrity of the investigation they do have, and I think they don't feel the public is at risk because they haven't continued to ask for vigilance or caution....I think because they know it was random is why they know there isn't a continued risk for the public.

In Early's last public appearance he specifically said "we are working hard to seek justice for Ms Marcotte" rather then something like we are working diligently to find this monster.

Seems to me like they already have a strong POI but that POI has a lot protecting them and it makes LE have to be much more precise with crossing their t's and sitting there i's.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Sorry! I'm using my phone and not great at computers,clearly. By bright: I meant to have the foresight to burn DNA off of her. Did he succeed, incidentally? Is there none? I mean bright as in clever,intelligent. By burning: I was referring g to him burning her. Neither related to NYC . NYC was referring to: I don't think a stalker from NYC would go to Princeton to ambush het for the reasons I mentioned.

 

[ThinkHard]

Sorry! I'm using my phone and not great at computers,clearly. By bright: I meant to have the foresight to burn DNA off of her. Did he succeed, incidentally? Is there none? I mean bright as in clever,intelligent. By burning: I was referring g to him burning her. Neither related to NYC . NYC was referring to: I don't think a stalker from NYC would go to Princeton to ambush het for the reasons I mentioned.

In sorry I'm so confused? You literally said "bright burning DNA" and now your talking in metaphors about it being a reference to his character?

Perhaps it's me, but I really have no idea what your trying to say or what conclusion your getting at....

Feeling very lost.

 

[Camerabug]

Sorry! I'm using my phone and not great at computers,clearly. By bright: I meant to have the foresight to burn DNA off of her. Did he succeed, incidentally? Is there none? I mean bright as in clever,intelligent. By burning: I was referring g to him burning her. Neither related to NYC . NYC was referring to: I don't think a stalker from NYC would go to Princeton to ambush het for the reasons I mentioned.

They do have his DNA, the DA said that in a presser. I agree that it seems doubtful a stalker followed her from NY to ambush her in Princeton.

Welcome!!

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I was trying to say he was bright.....burning DNA takes some intelligence rather than disorganized chaos ambush. Sorry for my comma confusion.....

 

[Camerabug]

In sorry I'm so confused? You literally said "bright burning DNA" and now your talking in metaphors about it being a reference to his character?

Perhaps it's me, but I really have no idea what your trying to say or what conclusion your getting at....

Feeling very lost.

I think OP means bright as in smart. "smart burning the DNA off her"

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Oh, they do? So he is definitely not the NYC killer then? Thank you for the info! ( and everyone's patience). It seems so unlikely that s local sexual predator could be the one because usually they escalate from little crimes like flashing and up the ladder to homocide, don't they? In which case a local man would have a record? I realize if he started thirty years ago they would not have his DNA on file but if he did start thirty years ago he'd be too old to fit the profile of this attack, I'm assuming. Plus if he was a local boy who did progress but was never arrested, wouldn't a small town know him thru the gossip grapevine?

 

[ThinkHard]

Oh, they do? So he is definitely not the NYC killer then? Thank you for the info! ( and everyone's patience). It seems so unlikely that s local sexual predator could be the one because usually they escalate from little crimes like flashing and up the ladder to homocide, don't they? In which case a local man would have a record? I realize if he started thirty years ago they would not have his DNA on file but if he did start thirty years ago he'd be too old to fit the profile of this attack, I'm assuming. Plus if he was a local boy who did progress but was never arrested, wouldn't a small town know him thru the gossip grapevine?

Yes all true. Which is why, unfortunately, as a local it feels like it has to be a local....and given the fact not one specific person comes to mind as fitting the type (though this obviously doesn't exclude it), it just seems to me anyway, like someone knew her at least in some capacity.

I don't think this was a random crime of opportunity.