MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[JEF]

Sorry I misunderstood - when you said disorganized I thought you meant unplanned. Oops.

I don't think it was an ex or someone she dated. So I guess we disagree on that point but you can definitely make that argument.

No worries jeff. We wont all agree.... But im not quite sure what you're disagreeing with.

I don't think it was a random drive by wacko. It was someone she knew. Maybe someone she used to date, or went on a date with - who she wasn't interested in but he didn't get the message? An old boyfriend who couldn't let her go?


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[JEF]

I believe the Fox broadcast reported about 30 yards.

How far in this cart path was she? Was the distance posted?

 

[JEF]

Unless he wanted the body found and the inevitable result from that.

One other thing , it just seems if it was someone from out of town who didn't know anyone in town abducting her in his car, he would have fled with her. God knows where she would be.

 

[JEF]

Also, it's secluded with little traffic and heavy woods. Commit the murder somewhat quickly and get out.

 

[Kickoff61]

Also, it's secluded with little traffic and heavy woods. Commit the murder somewhat quickly and get out.

hmmm...that brings to mind another scenario. Could the killer travel for work? NY and other places for example? Maybe even out of town with scratches?

 

[ThinkHard]

Also, it's secluded with little traffic and heavy woods. Commit the murder somewhat quickly and get out.

This is all assuming it was a planned crime.

I think it's possible she was picked up by someone she knew to chat for a bit before catching her bus home. Then something happens he snaps, and now has a body on his hands, he can't drive around with her, and knows they will be looking for her soon.

He decides to stage it to deflect suspicion. Then perhaps he skips town or disappears in some other way.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I would be interested in knowing if her mothers home had any repairs done right before the murder. Roofing, in particular.

 

[Kickoff61]

It seems if this is an inexperienced younger aged criminal or relationship with her, this may be solved already. It is not . It appears complex for a reason.

 

[Mskin]

One other thing , it just seems if it was someone from out of town who didn't know anyone in town abducting her in his car, he would have fled with her. God knows where she would be.

I agree with this 100%. If this was "sadistically" charged, i very much believe she would not have ended up where she did. I think it would have been much better planned and the predator would have made a much stronger attempt to conceal the remains and generate some time for himself.

I suggested boyfriend / ex boyfriend / "blind date" as examples. Given anyones social circle there are likely to be some borderline yet not apparent "wingnuts" scattered in there. Perhaps someone she tutored, or counseled, or who dated a friend, a friends brother ... Im merely suggesting ANYONE besides someone she didn't completely know. I suggest more than a local stalker she never met, but someone she had conversed with, someone she wouldn't hesitate getting into a car with....


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[rosesfromangels]

Agree. This a known face, albeit ever so loosely connected.
He observed her routine previously, and sought her out.
His obsessions and lack of impulse control no doubt surfaced in other ways prior to this horrific event.
His family had to know he was unwell.

 

[ThinkHard]

It seems if this is an inexperienced younger aged criminal or relationship with her, this may be solved already. It is not . It appears complex for a reason.

That is not neccasarily true at all. As I have mentioned before, even if they can connect a DNA match to her, but can't connect that DNA to the crime scene, they can only prove that he made contact with her, not that he killed her. They would need to be able to put him at the scene of the crime to prove murder. Or they would have to combine contact DNA with other strong circumstantial evidence.

There are many reason there could be a delay, because unlike in television these things take time.

Additionally I'm sure they know far more then we are led to believe and they could be working one or more angles behind the scenes very closely. Just because we aren't privy to this insight doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I've also noticed LE hasn't made any more be vigilant and cautious pleas to the public in quite some time, and one would think if LE still thought there was a serious risk to the public they would continue to warn them.

I think they do have a good idea who it is, I think they feel he is no longer a threat, I feel he's likely also local with lots of family, and in order to not create a stir until they have a strong case are staying very quiet.

None of that to me indicates however that the cops can't figure it out because he was too advance or what not. I see amateur all over this case, not mastermind. just my opinion of course.

 

[ThinkHard]

Agree. This a known face, albeit ever so loosely connected.
He observed her routine previously, and sought her out.
His obsessions and lack of impulse control no doubt surfaced in other ways prior to this horrific event.
His family had to know he was unwell.

I actually get the impression it wouldn't have been so loose a connection. I think it's more likely to be someone she knew fairly well, had a level of trust with, even if she did think he was a little odd, and would have willingly gotten in the car with.

I still am not convinced this would have been a planned murder. I think he maybe wanted to talk to her and she agreed.

I don't think he was worried wether she was in his car, or was seen getting into it or what not, because I don't think he was planning on committing a murder. Jmo

 

[JEF]

If she got into a car and went somewhere with someone I'm not sure her cell would've pinged at the mountain barn. Also, she would have texted someone, most likely her mother. Also, she was just starting a run. And she had to leave in a couple of hours. I don't think people in their twenties don't interact like that. They text. They talk on the phone, snapchat, etc. It would be very odd for someone to happen by like that and for her to get in the car without there being some digital footprint of that type of interaction.

I actually get the impression it wouldn't have been so loose a connection. I think it's more likely to be someone she knew fairly well, had a level of trust with, even if she did think he was a little odd, and would have willingly gotten in the car with.

I still am not convinced this would have been a planned murder. I think he maybe wanted to talk to her and she agreed.

I don't think he was worried wether she was in his car, or was seen getting into it or what not, because I don't think he was planning on committing a murder. Jmo

 

[ThinkHard]

If she got into a car and went somewhere with someone I'm not sure her cell would've pinged at the mountain barn. Also, she would have texted someone, most likely her mother. Also, she was just starting a run. And she had to leave in a couple of hours. I don't think people in their twenties don't interact like that. They text. They talk on the phone, snapchat, etc. It would be very odd for someone to happen by like that and for her to get in the car without there being some digital footprint of that type of interaction.

Those are some assumption but there are plenty of others.

Why would her phone have pinged at the mountain barn? There could be so many reasons why in my scenario it could ping by the mountain barn. They could have gone and sat in a parking lot to talk and the nearest cell tower was the mountain barn. He could have killed her and disposed of her body by that point only realizing her cell is still in his car when he hears it ping as he's fleeing out of Princeton and passing the mountain barn. Depending on when she was killed, her cell phone simply could have been disposed of near the mountain barn as well. Just because her cell phone pinged doesn't mean she was with it at the time.

To your last bits, I have to respectfully disagree. As an attractive young female, quite similar to VM actually, who grew up in this area, went to an Ivy League undergrad and graduate school, moved away to NYC, is an only child myself etc....I can safely say I share a lot in common with her.

And while I can't speak to exactly what VM would or wouldn't do, when I put myself in her shoes, I can easily see, at that point in my life....a friend saying they needed help or needed to talk, and saying ok just meet me here at this time. I tell my parents a lot, but I wouldn't have felt the need to tell them I was using my running time to meet with a friend. Why? Because then they'd ask a bunch of questions regarding if the friend was ok, and I just wouldn't want to get into it. So I would just say be back at my normal time. I obviously wouldn't have thought meeting a friend was high risk and just wouldn't have bothered to tell them.

Which also means I wouldn't have bothered to text them when said friend picked me up either. It would have felt completely harmless....go out help a friend, don't get grilled about it, be back at normal time, no harm done.

And btw just because we are unaware of a digital footprint doesn't mean LE is unaware of one.

 

[ThinkHard]

I would be interested in knowing if her mothers home had any repairs done right before the murder. Roofing, in particular.

The supplies a roofer would have on them would match. However aren't most roofing jobs worked on during the week (when VM would be in NYC), rather then on the weekends (when she'd be home)?

 

[Kickoff61]

There are specific reasons FBI get brought into an investigation beyond only a state level homicide

 

[JEF]

I think you make some great points, Thinkhard. I just don't see it that way. If they went to a parking lot in Princeton they would go to the Mountain Barn. Someone would have seen them. And there's no time. We're talking less than 2 hours. I just don't see that as enough time for someone to stop, talk to her on the side of the road, drive somewhere, get into a fight and have it go wrong, kill her, drive back to the site, take the body out of the car, strip it, burn it, burn the clothes, and leave the scene.

Those are some assumption but there are plenty of others.

Why would her phone have pinged at the mountain barn? There could be so many reasons why in my scenario it could ping by the mountain barn. They could have gone and sat in a parking lot to talk and the nearest cell tower was the mountain barn. He could have killed her and disposed of her body by that point only realizing her cell is still in his car when he hears it ping as he's fleeing out of Princeton and passing the mountain barn. Depending on when she was killed, her cell phone simply could have been disposed of near the mountain barn as well. Just because her cell phone pinged doesn't mean she was with it at the time.

To your last bits, I have to respectfully disagree. As an attractive young female, quite similar to VM actually, who grew up in this area, went to an Ivy League undergrad and graduate school, moved away to NYC, is an only child myself etc....I can safely say I share a lot in common with her.

And while I can't speak to exactly what VM would or wouldn't do, when I put myself in her shoes, I can easily see, at that point in my life....a friend saying they needed help or needed to talk, and saying ok just meet me here at this time. I tell my parents a lot, but I wouldn't have felt the need to tell them I was using my running time to meet with a friend. Why? Because then they'd ask a bunch of questions regarding if the friend was ok, and I just wouldn't want to get into it. So I would just say be back at my normal time. I obviously wouldn't have thought meeting a friend was high risk and just wouldn't have bothered to tell them.

Which also means I wouldn't have bothered to text them when said friend picked me up either. It would have felt completely harmless....go out help a friend, don't get grilled about it, be back at normal time, no harm done.

And btw just because we are unaware of a digital footprint doesn't mean LE is unaware of one.

 

[JEF]

Add to that the witness. The witness would have been looking for Vanessa in that car. What the witness said was Vanessa was no longer running but the car was still driving. We don't know but that seems to suggest the witness did not see Vanessa in the car.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think you make some great points, Thinkhard. I just don't see it that way. If they went to a parking lot in Princeton they would go to the Mountain Barn. Someone would have seen them. And there's no time. We're talking less than 2 hours. I just don't see that as enough time for someone to stop, talk to her on the side of the road, drive somewhere, get into a fight and have it go wrong, kill her, drive back to the site, take the body out of the car, strip it, burn it, burn the clothes, and leave the scene.

That's ok, we don't have to agree. No harm in that.

 

[ThinkHard]

Add to that the witness. The witness would have been looking for Vanessa in that car. What the witness said was Vanessa was no longer running but the car was still driving. We don't know but that seems to suggest the witness did not see Vanessa in the car.

Tinted windows and/or afternoon glare could easily account for that.