MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

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And if she were in this "secret" relationship, if that person were going to kill her he would arrange to meet her somewhere remote and would have no need to ambush her on a run half a mile from her house. As for the idea he happened to run into her there and things "escalated" to murder, it's more than likely someone would have driven by and seen them arguing/talking. You don't escalate to murder in minutes and the timeline requires that the crime was committed there.
 
JMO But seeing what I have about Vanessa I personally don't see her having secrets of any kind. I doubt that she deceived anyone and I doubt she had a quiet rendezvous with a lover that day. I doubt she lied to her mother or any such thing. She went for a jog, IMO.

I don't doubt that some other person targeted her by an earlier sighting or else an obsession from some past knowledge of her. By now LE will have had any history that they can find, so I lean toward an earlier targeting of her running route.

I believe she was targeted, but secrets - not so much.

:cow:
 
I agree. I think Vanessa was just doing what she did during a visit home, went for a jog before heading back to the city, and either someone was waiting for her having seen her before -or- it was a crime of opportunity.

I'm just hoping her killer is caught; as the weeks and months move by I'm fearing this may end up a cold case with no resolution.
 
Police could run a search (I think?) for long-term residents of the nearby area, starting with Leominster/Fitchburg. Caucasian male, most likely living alone, owner of an SUV, with possible arrests for minor offenses during the past two years, possible substance abuse issues (may even be a DUI or alcohol/drug-related incident on record), possible unemployment compensation. See what they come up with and check out the social media of the pool. Just a thought.
 
Steleheart said:
JMO But seeing what I have about Vanessa I personally don't see her having secrets of any kind. I doubt that she deceived anyone and I doubt she had a quiet rendezvous with a lover that day. I doubt she lied to her mother or any such thing. She went for a jog, IMO.

I don't doubt that some other person targeted her by an earlier sighting or else an obsession from some past knowledge of her. By now LE will have had any history that they can find, so I lean toward an earlier targeting of her running route.

I believe she was targeted, but secrets - not so much.

:cow:
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This is how I feel also. And deep down that it is someone local, familiar and knows the beat of the area. It was my initial feeling and I could be way off. Just wish they solve this for the family and all who lost such a young woman that had so much to offer and a life to live.
 
DatelineFan said:
Could a woman have done this?
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I was wondering that too. The thought was sparked by the "Supermom" that was kidnapped by 2 Hispanic women in a dark SUV in northern CA.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 
Many things disturb me about VMs death. One thing is the lack of noise heard during the assault.

Let's say while on the blacktop of the road, the unsub used a garotte or rope to toss over the head to incapacitate VM. Unsub could just as easily use his arms to grab her around the neck and pull her to him. Perp scoops her tiny body and dashes into the woods. VM has the opportunity to kick her feet, scratch his arms and hands while he is attempting the strangulation. Now, his DNA is under her fingernails. She cannot scream because he is strangling her.

Then, Unsub does whatever occurred at the CS to cause her death. I agree with her likely being tied to the trees. Also, the unsub left a gruesome CS that was meant to shock and awe the first responders.

Another thing that has bothered me deeply is the horrific burning of Vanessa. Especially when used outdoors, a regular cigarette lighter produces a flame that is simply too small and would be time consuming to be an effective tool. Perhaps the Unsub used a flamethrower. Firefighters have access to them. The military has experience with them. Flamethrowers were used to melt the snow for JFKs inauguration. This vid shows how easy it is to make one at home or while sitting in the car ... waiting.

[video=youtube;H4GPXZazjHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4GPXZazjHk[/video]
 
DeDee said:
Many things disturb me about VMs death. One thing is the lack of noise heard during the assault.

Let's say while on the blacktop of the road, the unsub used a garotte or rope to toss over the head to incapacitate VM. Unsub could just as easily use his arms to grab her around the neck and pull her to him. Perp scoops her tiny body and dashes into the woods. VM has the opportunity to kick her feet, scratch his arms and hands while he is attempting the strangulation. Now, his DNA is under her fingernails. She cannot scream because he is strangling her.

Then, Unsub does whatever occurred at the CS to cause her death. I agree with her likely being tied to the trees. Also, the unsub left a gruesome CS that was meant to shock and awe the first responders.

Another thing that has bothered me deeply is the horrific burning of Vanessa. Especially when used outdoors, a regular cigarette lighter produces a flame that is simply too small and would be time consuming to be an effective arsenal. Perhaps the Unsub used a flamethrower. Firefighters have access to them. The military has experience with them. Flamethrowers were used to melt the snow for JFKs inauguration. This vid shows how easy it is to make one at home or while sitting in the car ... waiting.

[video=youtube;H4GPXZazjHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4GPXZazjHk[/video]
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LOL I have done that "minor adjustment"
:shame:
 
DatelineFan said:
Could a woman have done this?
Click to expand...

LE previously said they're looking for a man. I (and I'd imagine most posters) assume they have his DNA from under Vanessa's nails, for instance, as LE also said indications were she fought back and he likely has scratches. Though to be clear, LE has never said outright they have DNA.

Besides that, the chances of a woman committing such a heinous murder are probably almost as low as the chance of getting struck and killed by lightning. When women murder, it's almost always in self-defense against an abusive husband/partner.
 
JEF said:
Police could run a search (I think?) for long-term residents of the nearby area, starting with Leominster/Fitchburg. Caucasian male, most likely living alone, owner of an SUV, with possible arrests for minor offenses during the past two years, possible substance abuse issues (may even be a DUI or alcohol/drug-related incident on record), possible unemployment compensation. See what they come up with and check out the social media of the pool. Just a thought.
Click to expand...


I've also been wondering too about what type of computer screens they're running. Computers have amazing screening capabilities. Even if local LE doesn't have access, I'd guess the state might and FBI definitely would. I'd also start with the white male; some age range, prob start narrow and expand, like 20 to 30 first, as I think he's likely in Vanessa's general age range; not married (he could be married, but I'd screen for single first); and history of speeding tickets or other traffic violations. You mentioned blue-collar employment in another post.... I feel that's likely the case, too.

Related aside -- Vanessa worked for Google. I have been disappointed from early on that Google did not announce it was making its computer systems and whatever available to LE or somehow helping. This was (and is) a very high-profile case. It goes beyond Vanessa and speaks to violent crimes against women. I suppose they could be providing assistance and that's not been made public, but I don't know why that info wouldn't be made public.
 
Did he /they burn her as a form of torture ? Or in an attempt to elicit some type of information ?
 
DatelineFan said:
Definitely, there are ways to cover. But her phone provider would still have the information on the numbers she communicated with.
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Yes true. But if he had a disposable phone they still wouldn't know who to trace it too.
 
JEF said:
As for the theory about a secret relationship there is zero evidence to support it. As Dateline points out, not only would be there be a phone record of her interactions with the person, there would also be evidence on her laptop/tablet/computer as well. The idea of her using a burner phone or app that deletes interactions to conduct a secret relationship with someone from a small town hundreds of miles away from NYC is highly unlikely. Why would she possibly do that? She wasn't cheating and she was a grown woman. There is absolutely no need for that.

Add to that the idea that she somehow met or ran into this person when telling her family she was going for a run an hour before her bus on a Sunday also seems extremely unlikely.

I don't know if we're talking serial killer or not. But I believe this is not the unsub's first kill. I also think the pics of the crime scene suggest some of what I've said. At this point, local police, state police and the FBI have been through the vast majority of personal connections. Recent statements suggest they're looking in a different direction.
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Ya because psycho stalker with a plan and tools on hand tracking a girl whos only there 4 days a month is so much more likely <mod snip>
 
JEF said:
And if she were in this "secret" relationship, if that person were going to kill her he would arrange to meet her somewhere remote and would have no need to ambush her on a run half a mile from her house. As for the idea he happened to run into her there and things "escalated" to murder, it's more than likely someone would have driven by and seen them arguing/talking. You don't escalate to murder in minutes and the timeline requires that the crime was committed there.
Click to expand...

<mod snip> based on my experience as a female who grew up here, of the same socioeconomic status, both only children, both half Italian,similarities in moving from this area to NYC, and also looking starlingly like her.

I'm just saying I have a LOT in common with VM, and so when I think about what could or couldn't have occurred it's very easy to
Put myself in at least what I imagine to be her shoes.

At least from my perspective, living a life slightly ahead age wise, but almost parallel to hers, the most logical scenario to me, is that she knew him. Regardless if anyone believes me theory or not, this is what I am sticking too. And I will maintain that never believing this is random or a serial killer.

Of course I could be wrong, and as long as VM's family gets the truth, it doesn't really matter here who was right or wrong. Their truth is truly all that matters.
 
JEF said:
Police could run a search (I think?) for long-term residents of the nearby area, starting with Leominster/Fitchburg. Caucasian male, most likely living alone, owner of an SUV, with possible arrests for minor offenses during the past two years, possible substance abuse issues (may even be a DUI or alcohol/drug-related incident on record), possible unemployment compensation. See what they come up with and check out the social media of the pool. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

<mod snip> do you know how big Leominster is? And why only check Leominster when she went to school in Worcester with kids from all over?
 
Hogtied.

VMs hands, feet and hair were burned.

Cattle Ranch
Meat Market
Cowboy Roper
 
I saw exactly one episode of Criminal Minds and I remembered they kept using that term. Then when I saw it in someone's post upstream, I thought aha, I've heard that one on a crime show. I had to google it because I couldn't remember which show. ;) I don't watch the drama crime shows (NCIS, CSI, Criminal Minds, etc); much prefer the newsmag shows (48 Hours, Dateline).
 
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