MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[searunner]

Was she hogtied or is that speculation?

That's just speculation of that one poster, as LE has released extremely little info. The general speculation seems to be that she might have been tied to a tree because of some videos and pics of the CS. It's anyone's guess whether the burning took place before she died (torture) or after (trying to erase evidence and/or fascinated by fire). Let's hope after...

This next comment isn't regarding your posts, Madeleine...

Let's remember everyone -- This is a person we're talking about with family and friends and a life until not long ago. She should not be talked about as an object, a piece of meat. (Sorry. Will take off my hall monitor badge now...

And now I know what "unsub" means, too! I'm decidedly not a crime show watcher.

 

[JEF]

<modsnip> yes, I know very well "how big Leominster is." Also, if you read my post I never said "only Leominster." I said police could "start" with the Leominster/Fitchburg area then move beyond that. I say Leominster because Vanessa and her family are from that area; also, by this point, local police, state police and FBI have likely been through many possible suspects in Princeton and not found a POI. I also never felt the unsub (sorry if this seems weird, but I really felt odd calling him the "killer" and am open to suggestions) was from Princeton, for several reasons. Computers are capable of incredible things these days and to narrow that large pool might not be that difficult. And again, I said, "I think," not "I know."

As for VM, yeah, considering she was stripped, brutally murdered, burned and left outside, I think we're talking "psycho" with tools and a plan. Wow. Big leap there.

As for the dehumaniziing comment, I agree and feel bad about that. Vanessa's death has affected me deeply.

<mod snip> do you know how big Leominster is? And why only check Leominster when she went to school in Worcester with kids from all over?

 

[Kickoff61]

It doesn't have to be one or the other (knowing him) OR (attacker/serial killer). She could have known of him somewhat (familiarity) through some type activity she was involved with and he could still be a dangerous person with a history of attacks, crime or even a be a serial killer. And IF she did know of him through activity, that does not mean she had anything secretly going on with him. Clearly they think the person is in the Geographical area, and familiar with where she was found as reported. If someone doesn't stand out immediately to have done something like this, then more than likely he had his activity well covered up so far, not in the system and someone in the area who would not be easily suspected. As we know, this is turning out to be a challenging investigation.

 

[Massman33]

The person I posted about months ago (who follows on 14 people on Twitter, VM being one of them & he even tweets about her has deleted his facebook account. There were pics of him with bruises, although he does train/box/mma style a lot. If you google his name he's been arrested numerous times for drugs, carrying dangerous weapons (ninja apparel). He also lives in a neighboring town with an instagram acccount that shows the mountains around there. Looks eerily like Brooks Station Rd. He deleted his FB once LE announced they were looking for a dark SUV. Just my gatherings....

 

[Lauranyc83]

The person I posted about months ago (who follows on 14 people on Twitter, VM being one of them & he even tweets about her has deleted his facebook account. There were pics of him with bruises, although he does train/box/mma style a lot. If you google his name he's been arrested numerous times for drugs, carrying dangerous weapons (ninja apparel). He also lives in a neighboring town with an instagram acccount that shows the mountains around there. Looks eerily like Brooks Station Rd. He deleted his FB once LE announced they were looking for a dark SUV. Just my gatherings....

I also observed this.

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[Michigan]

The person I posted about months ago (who follows on 14 people on Twitter, VM being one of them & he even tweets about her has deleted his facebook account. There were pics of him with bruises, although he does train/box/mma style a lot. If you google his name he's been arrested numerous times for drugs, carrying dangerous weapons (ninja apparel). He also lives in a neighboring town with an instagram acccount that shows the mountains around there. Looks eerily like Brooks Station Rd. He deleted his FB once LE announced they were looking for a dark SUV. Just my gatherings....

Did you call this tip in to police? Hopefully you can. Thanks

 

[Tempura]

I agree. I was suspicious of this person before.

 

[Tempura]

Wait a minute, I still see his FB as active.

 

[searunner]

The person I posted about months ago (who follows on 14 people on Twitter, VM being one of them & he even tweets about her has deleted his facebook account. There were pics of him with bruises, although he does train/box/mma style a lot. If you google his name he's been arrested numerous times for drugs, carrying dangerous weapons (ninja apparel). He also lives in a neighboring town with an instagram acccount that shows the mountains around there. Looks eerily like Brooks Station Rd. He deleted his FB once LE announced they were looking for a dark SUV. Just my gatherings....

Thanks for this reminder. I looked him up on Vanessa's Twitter, etc., after you posted the first time. Scary is the word that comes to mind. No way was Vanessa friends with a guy like this. Has anyone reported this? I would guess that one of the first things LE did was comb through Vanessa's social media accounts, so I can't imagine that this guy would be news to them, though.

 

[Cem75]

I don't think its impossible - it appears she went home on a relatively regular basis. Maybe she was just really close to her mom? Living in NYC at her age, I'd think she would be out on the town most weekends. I know at her age I was loving the Boston scene. So maybe there was a dude.

Alternatively, I also wonder if someone overheard her plans for Sunday - i.e. "Going for a run before I hit the road" at a restaurant or something like that. I think she was with her dad the night before eating out.

 

[searunner]

Respectfully, snipped.

As for the dehumaniziing comment, I agree and feel bad about that. Vanessa's death has affected me deeply.

JEF, hope you didn't think I was referring to any of your posts. You have been very respectful when discussing Vanessa and certainly haven't discussed her like an object or piece of meat.

And I can tell her death has affected you very deeply. You seem a very good person. In fact, you're one my favorite posters.

 

[Steleheart]

The person I posted about months ago (who follows on 14 people on Twitter, VM being one of them & he even tweets about her has deleted his facebook account. There were pics of him with bruises, although he does train/box/mma style a lot. If you google his name he's been arrested numerous times for drugs, carrying dangerous weapons (ninja apparel). He also lives in a neighboring town with an instagram acccount that shows the mountains around there. Looks eerily like Brooks Station Rd. He deleted his FB once LE announced they were looking for a dark SUV. Just my gatherings....

Thanks for this reminder. I looked him up on Vanessa's Twitter, etc., after you posted the first time. Scary is the word that comes to mind. No way was Vanessa friends with a guy like this. Has anyone reported this? I would guess that one of the first things LE did was comb through Vanessa's social media accounts, so I can't imagine that this guy would be news to them, though.

By my experience LE has a daunting task when it comes to following up on leads, SM contacts, etc. While us, as a crowd source, toss ideas around through a hundred or so people plus visitors. I doubt LE is able to follow which followers of VM have deleted various accounts.
Point being it is worth a call to the tip line if you have this person's name or former FB name, etc. They can always subpoena records from SM.

:cow:

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think its impossible - it appears she went home on a relatively regular basis. Maybe she was just really close to her mom? Living in NYC at her age, I'd think she would be out on the town most weekends. I know at her age I was loving the Boston scene. So maybe there was a dude.

Alternatively, I also wonder if someone overheard her plans for Sunday - i.e. "Going for a run before I hit the road" at a restaurant or something like that. I think she was with her dad the night before eating out.

She did go out to eat with her father the night before, yes. They went to the 111 Chop House in Worcester.
If someone did overhear her talking about jogging etc, the next day, I am thinking this.
The tables/booths at that restaurant, are spaced out, meaning not impossible, but hard to overhear conversations with people talking at normal tones. If she was discussing that with her father, I doubt she would have discussed times, because he would have known what time she went home to NY, and I would think that conversation would have been more general.
The bar however, is more crowded. If that's how it went down, I would think she may have run into someone that she knew at the bar. She may have gone into detail then, but It would have been hard for someone that didn't know her overhearing to know where she was staying, unless they followed her home., and he wouldn't have had much time to plan it out. I think the perp knew that path, and the chances of someone at the restaurant knowing all of her details, where she was staying, and knew the path, is slight.
I am not saying you are wrong, because this is anyones guess, just my thoughts.
Her Dad must have gone over that night in his head, and I would think if she was away from the table for a while talking to someone at the bar, he hopefully would have remembered that.

 

[Rocky1]

As for the theory about a secret relationship there is zero evidence to support it. As Dateline points out, not only would be there be a phone record of her interactions with the person, there would also be evidence on her laptop/tablet/computer as well. The idea of her using a burner phone or app that deletes interactions to conduct a secret relationship with someone from a small town hundreds of miles away from NYC is highly unlikely. Why would she possibly do that? She wasn't cheating and she was a grown woman. There is absolutely no need for that.

Add to that the idea that she somehow met or ran into this person when telling her family she was going for a run an hour before her bus on a Sunday also seems extremely unlikely.

I don't know if we're talking serial killer or not. But I believe this is not the unsub's first kill. I also think the pics of the crime scene suggest some of what I've said. At this point, local police, state police and the FBI have been through the vast majority of personal connections. Recent statements suggest they're looking in a different direction.

I agree with you JEF.
The only thing I am on the fence with, is if he killed before. I think he may be younger, and could be his first, but if he isn't stopped he will be a serial Killer.
The name Daniel Laplante keeps coming to mind, although a different set of circumstances. A troubled kid that lived 1/2 mile from his crime scene. The odd thing is his crime happened a short distance from Princeton.

http://realifestorys.blogspot.com/

 

[Rocky1]

I've also been wondering too about what type of computer screens they're running. Computers have amazing screening capabilities. Even if local LE doesn't have access, I'd guess the state might and FBI definitely would. I'd also start with the white male; some age range, prob start narrow and expand, like 20 to 30 first, as I think he's likely in Vanessa's general age range; not married (he could be married, but I'd screen for single first); and history of speeding tickets or other traffic violations. You mentioned blue-collar employment in another post.... I feel that's likely the case, too.

Related aside -- Vanessa worked for Google. I have been disappointed from early on that Google did not announce it was making its computer systems and whatever available to LE or somehow helping. This was (and is) a very high-profile case. It goes beyond Vanessa and speaks to violent crimes against women. I suppose they could be providing assistance and that's not been made public, but I don't know why that info wouldn't be made public.

I can't speak for Google, but judging that the employees chartered a bus from NY to Ma for the wake, says a lot to me. I am sure this crime involving one of their own, has led them to reach out to LE anyway that they can, and knowing that LE hasn't made much of anything public, it doesn't surprise me that Google is also keeping that quiet.
The one question I do have in regards to keeping things quiet is this.
If they do in fact have DNA, why can't LE at lease tell the public if in fact this crime is connected, or not with the KV crime in Queens? We know they have DNA from that crime. I don't think it is, but it would be nice to at least rule that out,,, unless they don't have any.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think its impossible - it appears she went home on a relatively regular basis. Maybe she was just really close to her mom? Living in NYC at her age, I'd think she would be out on the town most weekends. I know at her age I was loving the Boston scene. So maybe there was a dude.

Alternatively, I also wonder if someone overheard her plans for Sunday - i.e. "Going for a run before I hit the road" at a restaurant or something like that. I think she was with her dad the night before eating out.

She was with her dad eating out, but they were out to eat in Worcester at the 111, which is big and loud and it would be difficult to over hear conversation....plus unless the random person that happen to over hear here was from Princeton they still wouldn't have known where she was talking about.

Ps the drive from 111 to VM's moms house is about 30 minutes on back roads.

 

[ThinkHard]

Just as a means of explaining myself and why I can't shake the possibility of certain lines of thinking.....

So a few years back when I was about Vanessa's age, one of my HS friends from a town neighboring Princeton called me up one day hysterical. She had gone to an Ivy for college and was currently living in Boston and in Medical School, she was also tiny and gorgeous and very kind and well liked and pretty much the last person you'd ever expect to get to do anything "wrong"

She was at her parents house when she called and it's there I met her....as it turns out she had just ended a realtionship....a relationship I had never even heard about....no one had, To this day I am still one of the only people who know about it, and she still won't tell me his name.

As it turns out she had been having an affair with a married man. He had first told her he was single, then separating, then it was that he was working on it....finally she had enough and ended it, but he left a big bruises on her arms as he tried to grab on her as she left that day.

I was SO angry at her, I couldn't understand how someone so smart and so good could do something so silly. When I asked her why, she just said because she was in love.

He had met her at a bar in Worcester but owned a business and told her she should stop in, it was from there that things picked up. They also would only keep in touch via email, and both had new email addresses they used just for that purpose which weren't connected to other emails or to their real names, evidently his wife regularly checked all known accounts. Oh yeah btw married man wasn't from Princeton but he was living their with his family.

Anyway it's just hard for me to shake my friends story when I look at Vanessa's case.

And while I certainly don't think it's the only possibility, from personal experience I also know it's not impossible either.

 

[compassionate]

The married man idea crossed my mind also, but as it is totally speculative and casts Vanessa in a cloudy light I basically rejected it, and especially after LE seemed so firm that they had found nothing untoward in her life. Whoever this killer is I just wish they would be caught and convicted. The killer does seem smart and darn arrogant and I hate that he is still out there.

 

[Razz]

The married man idea crossed my mind also, but as it is totally speculative and casts Vanessa in a cloudy light I basically rejected it, and especially after LE seemed so firm that they had found nothing untoward in her life. Whoever this killer is I just wish they would be caught and convicted. The killer does seem smart and darn arrogant and I hate that he is still out there.

For whatever reason, I don't see the perp as being smart and/or arrogant. I think he was dumb lucky.
Either way, I believe he will be caught.

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[FindHG]

By my experience LE has a daunting task when it comes to following up on leads, SM contacts, etc. While us, as a crowd source, toss ideas around through a hundred or so people plus visitors. I doubt LE is able to follow which followers of VM have deleted various accounts.
Point being it is worth a call to the tip line if you have this person's name or former FB name, etc. They can always subpoena records from SM.

:cow:

Agreed, Steleheart. LE has emphasized "quality over quantity" in the tips they seek, in their most recent statements. They've been gracious and responsive to websleuthers who've sent in tips, none the less, from what I've observed.