MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[liz b.]

With respect to a firearm. Does It seem to anyone else that someone with this kind of propensity for violence would own one? What would be the reasons they didn't have one, or seemingly didn't have one on them?

Too young?
Prior convictions? (would seem DNA would be in system of this we're the case)
Left it home? This would Point toward not planned at the time he left his house that day.

Maybe he doesn't like guns?

Just a new topic to discuss, if anyone has any thoughts on it.

I think he didn't need a gun to do this. If he had wanted to abduct her, then a gun might have been used at some point, to threaten her, to get her in a vehicle. Interesting question though.

Okay, so why didn't he want to abduct her ? Because he has no place to take her. Because he doesn't live alone. Because he lives a "normal" life day by day. I think he was seeking to murder VM, and he was comfortable enough to do it in broad daylight, apparently with his bare hands...

Love your thought provoking posts

 

[ThinkHard]

Also, the FBI gets involved in cases that involve serial killers, and they may have got involved thinking that initially the VM/KV cases may have been connected.

What about just be the mere fact she resided in NYC and was killed in MA...that means state lines were crossed for investigative purposes.

 

[Joshua M]

Very good point. That would explain his trying to get rid of the DNA left behind even though he is not in the system. They can still make the connection to him within the town. Much different than the entire state or country, clearly. So that could be the answer right there.

Thank you. That's the thing (along with a knowledge of the road and that area) that makes me think it's a local, and somebody who intends on staying in the area. I think the areas where she was burnt - feet, hands, and head - also supports the fact that the burning was done to erase DNA. All those points are likely contact points during a struggle. Also, the taking of all her clothes seems more than just a trophy thing. They also would likely have his DNA on them.

 

[Evey]

I completely disagree about the standing appointment Theory. I never have believed that she was going to meet someone that day there is just simply zero evidence to support it. This girl could have whatever she wants in life. By all accounts she had things in order and certainly would not have to meet people secretly. JMO.

Also to quote you, where does it say EXPLICITLY that her runs were "she had a regular routine of taking a walk/run JUST before boarding the bus". Please provide a link to some video or article evidence which states this EXPLICITY. I think this is simply an Oversimplification or generalization of her usual "routine" of exercising while in Princeton. I could be wrong and you could be right. If you can show me some actual evidence, I'd be inclined to join your side.

And that doesn't make sense to begin with because JUST before boarding the bus to NYC we had to have someone drive her 35 minutes to Worcester.

Well just because she didn't need to doesn't mean she wasn't. While I think she wasn't going to meet someone I also can say I've never had issues with getting a guy but there have been one or two times I met up with someone and I wouldn't say kept it secret but hid it from specific people(not in a I was cheating type of way) so sure she could have secretly been seeing someone and waiting for them to leave their gf or wife but even then I doubt it's related. And just because she isn't posting about a guy and telling people doesn't even mean it's a secret but just maybe something new. In my case keeping it secret was to avoid a kinda friend(not mine but my bestfriebds other bestfriend I wasn't close with) from finding out I was doing whatever with her ex. Other reason would be if the person was a bestfriebds ex or an exes friend. Because I see plenty of people hide things for those reasons. But I don't believe her love life was related to what happened. And I believe the SUV was involved. I wonder what she did in the down time between each known thing she did on the timeline. Because for all we know some small tiny thing even just getting the mail whereby a neighbor could see her or something could potentially be related.

 

[Evey]

This has been reported to an extend, we know she went to the store around. On to get a drink and she left for her run from her moms house around 1:15.

Since I'm guessing she didn't walk to the store to get a drink to take a walk later, we can safely assume she drove there. We haven't heard she went anywhere else.

So she drives to the store and buys a drink around noon. Drives back to her moms...and perhaps changes for her run and heads out...

The store would be a 15 minute trip tops, door to door.

So there is a window she would have been back at her moms of about 30-60 minutes btw the store errand and her walk/run.

What I mean is all the small details nobody would look at and assume could be important or related. Or even any social media posts or Snapchat posts because those often could show she was about to go on a run. I mean there could be things as small as being in the backyard of her parents place where any neighbor could spot her for example. Not saying it's a neighbor but to me it's possible and especially if there's any with windows looking out at her bedroom window she stays in when there. I just think it could be something so simple related to her day or weekend that most people would not think of it as important because some of us aren't but locals and don't know what her house or neighborhood look like fully so we wouldn't know the person could have spotted her there. Or we wouldn't know if a post or Snapchat she made let them know that. Which sadly snaps vanish after 24hrs but before they do they let you know who viewed them and I think she was tech savvy and likely used it like most people her and my age. There's just so much she did that we either aren't privy to the info about from LE or they aren't aware of it either. One thinks for sure the SUV obviously is involved as far as they are concerned. My only question is if they owned it or rented it etc the way they word the things I read and watched it comes off as if this SUV was seen driving around the area and parked off there also. Maybe it's the wording but my mind went to someone driving around the area probably lives somewhere in the area based on what they said and must have been seen enough to be reported as a tip. So to me that says something about the way theyvwerw driving seemed weird like driving slowly or driving around past the same area multiple times or seeing it drive in the area close to her parents place and then one like it parked off the road. Basically my question is what has to happen for people to start calling in tips because they clearly mentally remembered this vehicle being around and my question is why. I don't notice half he ones that drive around my neighborhood unless they're doing something off to me.

 

[Evey]

Respectfully but if she was meeting someone secretly ... well "secret" does kind of imply no one would have evidence to support it. That's what secret is after all.

Look she was probably a great person but she was also human. She wasn't some untouchable being...she was a real person with real conflicting thoughts and feelings. Sometimes love makes even the smartest people do silly things.

We can't sit here and saint her, because that doesn't help solve a case. We have to be willing to explore many angles. People are complicated.

What I can tell you is LE has enough info to feel this is not random. I do not know what that is, but I do know they do not think this is random.

I believe this story has more layers to it then many are realizing. I don't think it's a simple story of a random victim and a random perp. I think the answer lies in the aspects of her life that have not been shared publicly.

Regarding when that was stated about her having a habit of taking a walk before boarding the bus...it was early on in the investigation and it was emphasized...I don't really have the energy to track down old news stories but it is there and I choose to believe this over the idea she was still following or not following a running schedule based on year old data when so much in her life had changed.

And yes it very much makes sense....we talked about these details at length on these boards because we discussed if she had a regular run time...then they would have expected her back at a regular time precisely because she did have the bus to board and perhaps a shower to take and a bag to pack before leaving the house by 4 at the latest to make the 430 bus. Which again makes perfect sense because it is precisely why her family was running a ping on her phone at 225, and was running around to neighbors at 430 panicked because they could t find her...cause she should have been on the bus at that time.

Of course this is how I am seeing it, you are of course entitled to see it any way you choose. I will confess I know someone people closely connected and have only been told "leanings" we'll call them, but with no specifics,so that might affect the way I am seeing things at least to an extent. I am not trying to spread any gossip, just confessing in full disclosure that my position as a local and things I hear might influence me a bit whether I mean to or not.

I agree cause that's what I pictured when I read that in an article. I see people knowing she had to run and be back by a specific time to pack etc and wonder myself if she took the same time every bus trip back or every trip there. And no matter how good of a person she was she could still secretly be seeing someone. I mean I have no issue getting men but have I secretly seen someone? Yes and I'm sure a lot of people we see as shouldn't need to have. Even if the person is single but the family or friends won't approve or the other person is getting a divorce etc so I think people assuming she never would or would never need to is silly because they're not thinking about the fact that she may love this person or could be making him keep it secret and not him making her. That said I believe it isn't random just as you said. I don't think I believe it's love life related cause I would think they'd figure it out by now but I also don't believe she would go home every weekend for her family. I only would for a man. Nobody is perfect so we shouldn't assume she doesn't have flaws because those flaws or things that aren't as perfect could lead us to leads. While I don't know if the SUV parked was the same one they make it sound like was driving around or not but it could technically be two different ones. But I don't live around there and don't know how common those are but over here in Oregon they're common and my towns small and we still see them a lot. If he was dumb enough to park there then he's cocky but i go back and forth on if I believe he parked there or if he only was driving around and people noticed the SUV and found it odd so they found it extra weird when she got killed and they remembered seeing one parked.

 

[Evey]

Respectfully, I have a pretty sharp memory and I read through the entire thread and checked every link and read every story over the last week so it is all quite fresh in my mind. There were allusions to the fact that she ran while in Princeton before heading back to New York but nothing specific regarding a timeline for those runs. Something specific been mentioned I would have incorporated it immediately into my theory. But nothing specific was mentioned. I know it's a pain for you to go back and read through everything but if you have information it specifically states that she ran immediately preceding her trips back to New York that would be useful to identify as factual to the case. As I said I've through everything very recently and did not see anything specific as you remember it.

I am also curious as to when you heard that law-enforcement was decidedly of the opinion that this was not random. if that is the case, that is a big break, and a definite change from everything that I have heard/read. I have not heard law-enforcement say that they do not believe this was random. I have only heard them say that they cannot be certain whether or not it was random. Can you link any specific information related to this? Press conference video perhaps? Something I may have missed.

You are totally right I'm sure Vanessa had her own problems secrets and demons. And a few enemies too. That's all just part of life.

But she was definitely a runner we know that for sure and to insinuate that this trip was something other than going out to exercise doesn't fit with the history. If she had some kind of long-standing meet up time with someone, how does that fit with the fact that last summer she was in Princeton and ran routinely? I definitely get that she could have known people in the local area and she could have had friends and enemies both in the local area. But I don't get the idea that her exercise schedule was somehow a disguise for something else, specially given that we can see via a window using historical data, this girl covered some serious distance at times on her runs. Sometimes 8 miles. She was conscious of her fitness and I have every reason to believe that reason she left the house that day was for fitness and clarity of mind. Not to meet anyone. AGAIN JMO. If some evidence can be shown to the contrary I will certainly process and except it but as of now I don't see any evidence or any reason to head in that direction.

Regarding the last paragraph I can dissect that fairly easily. If she happened to leave the house at 1:15 that particular day knowing that she had to be home by 3 o'clock that would obviously cause concern when she had not come home. Simply from that we cannot extrapolate that she normally ran at this time that is not a logical conclusion That can be drawn. What can bE drawn is that on that day, given the time she ran, she and her family both knew that she had only 2 hours of free time ON THAT GIVEN DAY. And when she exceeded that timeframe, it was immediately concerning.

Perhaps if we knew when her last known relationship was and where he lived it could help us figure out things because I don't believe her run had anything remotely related to meeting up with a dude cause that's not where you meet up with a dude you're secretly seeing. I myself the few times I've kept something secret either met them at their place or mine after being around them and friends at a bar or just going directly to them and we'd always act like nothing was going on. But the thing is I still told my bestfriends eventually and I think hers would know and even if she wouldn't know I still don't believe she would go for a run to meet him. Granted she did change the privacy settings but still... and the fact that they went door to door collecting DNA and worded it as if the SUV could be local makes me believe they think he lives in the area because why else go do that? But I would wonder if the time around her breakup with her last guy was the time she made her privacy changed(as in obsessive crazy ex) but they ruled him out so I doubt it's him. But it would also potentially show us she changed the settings to prevent anyone from knowing her route because she changed things up for the dude. But that said I don't believe it's related to her love life and sure knowing the info could help us but I think it's not random(as in he had seen her multiple times even if she only saw him once or twice) and I think the person lives in the area around there or even closer to the bus stop where she could be seen getting on or off. But anyone who knows what time she gets on the bus should be able to guess she runs between such and such times. And if she went on a run on the day before(can't recall if it said she had and I only know she went to dinner with the dad) then they could have saw her then and decided the next day he would strike but I don't believe that and I believe this was thought out and planned out for awhile. And a person who knows her well enough to know things that help him pull it off. And on top of it if this was a crime of oppurtinity by a stranger who never saw her before then why not attack other joggers if they'd waited around all morning to pounce? It doesn't make sense to me that they'd just sit and wait hours. And if this area isn't a common jogging area then even more so does it tell me they knew her patterns even if not always exact. Most girls love posting a selfie related to gym time or running even if it's them looking good in their clothes before with some caption about it. And depending on her privacy settings if she did that on Snapchat and had it set to anyone can see her snaps and like me rarely checks who's viewing hers then the dude easily could have found her. I mean my best male friend goes and finds dudes on every social media because he finds them cute cause he met them or they added him on one thing. Like honestly sometimes he gets a bit stalker like with dudes so to me it isn't a stretch that some stalker or obsessed person wouldn't find her social media accounts and follow or add them(potentially on a fake Instagram or fb or Snapchat if they're smart) even if this person is a friend or something that just tells me it would be even easier to find. Not to mention a feature tells you who's near you and i forget the name of the app but there was one awhile back where you could track where your friends are or whatever it was. And on IG and FB most posts say a location or on IG a general vacinity of where you're uploading things from as I've learned via catfish the show. Basically anyone my age who's active on social media could easily be tracked most likely if someone really wanted to and put a lot of time and effort into it. What if this isn't a local though but a coworker from google? This just occurred to me but if she worked in social media or web related things awhile then who's to say some tech savvy dude who worked with her wasn't stalking her and knew how to figure it all out or hack into stuff to find the info out. Still think it's a local but I hope they looked into coworkers and asked them things but I'm sure they did already. Just think someone working there would have the skills to know all sorts of stuff about how to track the stuff.

 

[Evey]

Unfortunately specific knowledge of variants of foot/shoe fetishes are not within my skillset. Perhaps this killer is turned on by such things, who knows ? I tend to think that if he took her shoe it was as a momento, a way of reliving the event. He may well have a fetish about fit,well toned young women though.

It is a variation of a fetish. So we have men who love feet and men who love girls not showering before paying them for sex and combine someone who's into girls who aren't clean and are sweaty and haven't showered or have B.O from it and a foot fetish and on top of it a potential serial killer or just killer who may want a trophy and you'd have someone taking a dirty sweaty shoe or trying to buy clearly was interrupted or maybe it was(in sorry in advance this is gross) someone who took off her shoes and masturbated to her feet getting his stuff on them so he burned the feet to remove the DNA. If he didn't fully remove it that could explain why they seemed to say rape or sexual assault happened but then haven't mentioned it in awhile. One of the first things I read in the days after was saying like KV her pants or whatever seemed pulled down or something but then never read it again. Honestly I don't think this is foot fetish related but there's a fetish for everything. Even dead people. Also as to the serial killer thing i believe rapists are the ones who more so do it because they get shot down but serial killers often are suave and you'd not suspect them. For all we know this is a serial killer and there have been others because this guy seems smart and like it's not the first time.

 

[Evey]

There has been no specific time of death released. (or even cause of death) They wanted info. from time frame of 1 to 3 , yes. But, no evidence as to her being attacked at the beginning of the run. Maybe she was returning. There is so much information unknown.

So technically she had her run clothes on but we don't know she even went and ran or walked or did someone spot her doing so? Also this app or whatever with run times is it something anyone besides active runners would check or use? I ask cause even if she changed he settings can her friends see them still? Or nobody? I agree about not knowing the times because I think if she turned around early like in the day before changing her settings then maybe she saw them again. Or if she was killed before getting far like KV then it could show the person lives in the neighborhood between her parents and the start of the wooded areas.

 

[Evey]

Oh that's a horrible thought!!! I say that out of defense, husband has been at Fedex for 20 years..but honestly it is a theory worth discussing. Couriers DO get to know everything about their routes. I have heard so many stories. I will ask the husband tonight his view on this. He does deliver in a remote area of washington state, wooded back roads etc..he sees alot of the same people, things, vehicles, routines, things at people's homes that seem off.

But wouldn't it not work because if but the SUV thing? And the fact that I'm sure people would notice a ups truck and they be on a schedule also. And since you can track packages I'm sure when the LE and FBI looked into electronic stuff and social media stuff they'd find a email confirming something being shipped and then they'd look at that and see the delivery date or click the track my package thing and see he was supposed to drop one off that day. I just feel that like the idea of a secret bf or even a fling that the FBI would have found it. People usually use their own cells not expecting to need to not do so. They just would hide the texts and delete them etc

 

[Evey]

That would be a really thing for a "friend" to write after a murder...even sarcastically.

As someone who has an ex that me and him would jokingly say we hated each other in a loving tone I can safely say I wouldn't ever post that on his stuff if he was killed. My questions are how long after and by post you guys mean commented it on her wall or posted it as her? Did she post anything after she would have been dead? Cause that would be interesting. Also did anyone get their name and look into them and see if he hasn't a record or is on her other social media? It seems like a dumb move for someone who seems like a smart killer as does parking by it but maybe he's never been caught for other murders and now has become obnoxiously cocky with what he does.

 

[Evey]

Of course. We definitely do disagree, that's for sure!

ThinkHard is a huge part of the conversation here, and disregards the old running data, which I find could be useful in the case. I'm not feeling much support on the topic from others, so unless someone else wishes to continue the discussion, I will keep my thoughts and developments on it to myself. Since any such developments are met with resistance and seen only as me repeating myself.

Well I for one do see it as important because it can help us figure out the average speed she would be going based on past runs and the heat. And then we take that and look at the day her run was cut short and compare it to a day with the same heat or close to it to see just how much faster she was going. And also to take the heat of that day around that time and compare it to a past time with the heat and preferably close to the same time and then maybe we can figure out what time she would have got back home and based off that we can try to figure out what time it likely happened or what time frame. Cause we know a wider range but knowing a smaller more close time frame could help. Because any time that is past the time she would be home could be excluded then with some wiggle room of course. And with that we'd maybe be able to figure other stuff out. I see what the other point of view is also but also see why you think it's important mainly because I think it can help us figure out stuff about that days run/walk and the day her privacy changed and perhaps if the run is usually around the same time we know she likely takes the same route there and if it's a run walk thing then even if she walked part of the day it would just show it's part of the routine. I get thinking things have changed and I'm sure they could have but to me she's serious enough about running to have that app so she likely didn't change a whole lot or if she did I think it would be small things. As for hot days if she clearly ran even on them but lasted longer then maybe we know on a hot day she walked more of it than she ran. If her social media was still active or is then we could compare the time of day she went for that one where the privacy changed and see if she made any posts eluding to it. To me you don't take self defense class without a known threat or being attacked or stalked or something to cause them. Something caused her to but what is the question...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Don't have time to read through all the posts on Vanessa's thread, but can someone tell me if she had a very visible internet presence? Had she done any modeling, or acting, or anything of that nature?

 

[searunner]

Does someone have any information on the specific time frame when Vanessa was diagnosed with Crohn's. I know it was written somewhere but I can't remember where

I saw you got a couple "winter 2015" responses. I have it in my mind that it was *said to be* in Dec. 2015. Now I'm pretty certain that was what someone posted at least once, but I don't know whether or not the poster got that from a good source or just inferred that "winter of 2015" meant Dec(ish) 2015.

If this date is accurate and her Crohn's worsened soon before this - leading to the diagnosis - then it seems possible that her running schedule might have changed since then (meaning changed since she changed her setting to private on the track my run app). For instance, she might sleep in more on weekends (Crohn's can cause fatigue) and/or wait longer after eating to run.

 

[Evey]

I give LE all the credit in the world.
I also think they don't have much to go on, and that certainly isn't their fault . I think the SUV clue is worth elaborating on, to them, no doubt. I don't think they let a lot slip, because I don't think they had a lot from the start.
If they are so sure about the SUV, then tell me why they are doing a DNA dragnet, and not just taking DNA from those that drive a dark SUV?

See I don't know this person for sure drove one but maybe they were parked by the exact spot and they ar hoping they saw the person. Cause while I can see how it seems like they assume the person had one they don't as far as I noticed say anything besides that they may have saw something. but also the fact that they elaborate about what sounds as if they were driving around town suspiciously has me want to think the person is a suspect. But if it was based on just being parked then I think it just means they are hoping they saw something.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you. That's the thing (along with a knowledge of the road and that area) that makes me think it's a local, and somebody who intends on staying in the area. I think the areas where she was burnt - feet, hands, and head - also supports the fact that the burning was done to erase DNA. All those points are likely contact points during a struggle. Also, the taking of all her clothes seems more than just a trophy thing. They also would likely have his DNA on them.

If you get into a physical altercation with someone I think you are well aware that it's very likely more then just their head, hands, and feet might have come into contact with the perp...and if a perp was trying to get rid of DNA I think he would be well aware of this and would know burning just those parts wouldn't suffice to protect him from DNA evidence.

So that said I seriously do not think DNA was the motivation for burning. I think you are either looking at someone who enjoys fires or who had a personal thing against VM or attractive women in general and he wanted to hid her body parts that most made her her.

The other possibility is that her hands and feet were tied and the rope and hair were set on fire because the catch easily even with just a lighter...leaving burn marks on her head, hands, and feet.

 

[Kickoff61]

That's exactly the value in asking these kinds of questions- at least in my mind. Follow me- a guy who would strangle someone to death would seem to be someone who would like to own a gun, right? As Rocky succinctly put it, this guy would seem to like anything that helps him overpower someone else. So let's presume he has a gun, and analyze what that might tell us about the crime:

As you pointed out, it would seem to tell us that he did not plan to abduct Vanessa when he left the house that day. If that could be established, that would be VERY Useful. It would seem to rule out all the theories about someone who's been plotting and planning and hiding and scouting etc. It would mean the convergence of the killer and victim was incidental on that day. And it would mean the crime had an element of spontaneity.

All of that sounds good to me.

But also as Rocky pointed out, there is another possibility. He had a gun but didn't use it. Best reason? I think rockys best reason was the gunshot. But that again would point to someone who didn't plan ahead, since a homemade silencer can be made pretty easily with store bought products.

There is no evidence of strangulation. There has been no cause of death reported.

 

[ThinkHard]

Well just because she didn't need to doesn't mean she wasn't. While I think she wasn't going to meet someone I also can say I've never had issues with getting a guy but there have been one or two times I met up with someone and I wouldn't say kept it secret but hid it from specific people(not in a I was cheating type of way) so sure she could have secretly been seeing someone and waiting for them to leave their gf or wife but even then I doubt it's related. And just because she isn't posting about a guy and telling people doesn't even mean it's a secret but just maybe something new. In my case keeping it secret was to avoid a kinda friend(not mine but my bestfriebds other bestfriend I wasn't close with) from finding out I was doing whatever with her ex. Other reason would be if the person was a bestfriebds ex or an exes friend. Because I see plenty of people hide things for those reasons. But I don't believe her love life was related to what happened. And I believe the SUV was involved. I wonder what she did in the down time between each known thing she did on the timeline. Because for all we know some small tiny thing even just getting the mail whereby a neighbor could see her or something could potentially be related.

Typically the secrets about a persons murder are hidden in the clues that aren't made public and the aspects of their life that aren't immediately obvious....haven't you guys ever watch First 48?

Most murders are committed by people known to the victim as well.

Based on those things and what I have seen of the case so far...I tend to believe this case leans toward personal and in the details...then random and opportunistic.

I don't have any real reason to believe this I suppose, but my gut instinct is that she was not targeted to be murdered that day...but rather an encounter escalated with someone she knew and he had to cover his tracks.

 

[ThinkHard]

What I mean is all the small details nobody would look at and assume could be important or related. Or even any social media posts or Snapchat posts because those often could show she was about to go on a run. I mean there could be things as small as being in the backyard of her parents place where any neighbor could spot her for example. Not saying it's a neighbor but to me it's possible and especially if there's any with windows looking out at her bedroom window she stays in when there. I just think it could be something so simple related to her day or weekend that most people would not think of it as important because some of us aren't but locals and don't know what her house or neighborhood look like fully so we wouldn't know the person could have spotted her there. Or we wouldn't know if a post or Snapchat she made let them know that. Which sadly snaps vanish after 24hrs but before they do they let you know who viewed them and I think she was tech savvy and likely used it like most people her and my age. There's just so much she did that we either aren't privy to the info about from LE or they aren't aware of it either. One thinks for sure the SUV obviously is involved as far as they are concerned. My only question is if they owned it or rented it etc the way they word the things I read and watched it comes off as if this SUV was seen driving around the area and parked off there also. Maybe it's the wording but my mind went to someone driving around the area probably lives somewhere in the area based on what they said and must have been seen enough to be reported as a tip. So to me that says something about the way theyvwerw driving seemed weird like driving slowly or driving around past the same area multiple times or seeing it drive in the area close to her parents place and then one like it parked off the road. Basically my question is what has to happen for people to start calling in tips because they clearly mentally remembered this vehicle being around and my question is why. I don't notice half he ones that drive around my neighborhood unless they're doing something off to me.

The houses are spread out it would be hard for a neighbor to see into her windows to spy on her...especially in the summer with thick foliage...the house is on an angle and you can see a bit of the front yard from the road but it is set back a bit.

 

[Evey]

Just a theory which has been on my mind for hours and even more so with everyone saying they said the or had access part regarding he SUV. What if this male coworker who is tech savvy as I've theorized and as I just saw theorized(I've been playing catch up) who would have the means to hack into her phone or know her well enough to have info on her life and this person rented a SUV for that day? To me I think while it's a local person I also could see that happening but much less so. One question is what town did she attend college and could she have a stalker via there or one who's tech savvy from a class she took. I see that being much more likely than a coworker if she attended college in the area. And as far as her yoga goes if it was a nice hot day she may have done that outside. Where someone could see her. Maybe the DNA thing going a second time(unless I read it wrong) is cause this person was out of town during the first or they couldn't find him to do one. If his job requires travel it's surely possible. And by testing the area it cliks be he may have a relative they're hoping and that they could get some DNA that shows the killer is related. Also one thought I have is if this is a killer who obsessively looks into the media about the case then what if he's here now and giving us false info? Obviously he wouldn't say he's local so this wouldn't be directed at anyone that lives around there or anyone in general but i just could see a killer hanging out here to see who's onto him and maybe giving false info if someone is too close to figuring out a break.