MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[liz b.]

Actually, LE never did say they had her DNA. What they did say, is, that it was a male. I think MSN took that to mean they found DNA, and they are probably right but as far as I know LE never reported it.

Interesting. Did LE say that VM fought him, and that he would have had scratches/bruises ?

 

[Rocky1]

I think this was a murder. The rest is "window dressing". jmo/

That post was in response to the question of if he had planned on killing her before he abducted her, or after.
You are right, it was a murder.

 

[Rocky1]

You mean that he took her clothing, and her other shoe, and burned them away from the crime scene ? I think the burning was to instill terror. Not to destroy DNA or any other type of evidence.. jmo

No, I think he burned them at the crime scene to destroy evidence.
Not to sound too graphic, but I think he burned her post mortem, and not for torture. If she was alive people from a far distance would have heard her screaming. IMO

 

[Rocky1]

Interesting. Did LE say that VM fought him, and that he would have had scratches/bruises ?

They said she fought him and that he may have scratches and bruises.

 

[ThinkHard]

I can't speculate on whether the motive was simply assault or assault and murder, but I agree that SPECIFICALLY, he didn't intend to kill her THERE.

I meant more if he wasn't planning to harm her at all, not just murder vs assault. If say he was just trying to talk to her.

 

[ThinkHard]

Locals - Are all the other roads on all her running routes busier than BSR?

Pretty much...Boylston would connect her to 31 on the northern end, as would Ball Hill on the south end both are about the same traffic level as BSR....accept Boylston starts running into the center of town so gets busier, ball hill is busy now on the weekend (as there is a xmas tree farm down that way but not in the summer). 31 is always busy though and gets a lot of cut through traffic, as it goes up through most of the state. I grew up on just off 31 on the Princeton line, as kids we use to ride our bikes down it to TCBY at the bigY plaza in Holden....I still can't believe my parents allowed this it's a very busy road.

 

[ThinkHard]

Just trying to see where you stand, is all.
Ok so maybe you can explain why on a 90 degree day, someone would have a torch with them? An SUV isn't a work truck.

Well as I mentioned I use one in sailing....there are a lot of lakes and ponds around and plenty of people with boats...it was the summer...so a boater could easily have one in their car...just as an example...but I agree it's not that uncommon of a tool and I've defineltyl seen them randomly in the backs of people's cars.

 

[ForensicMass]

LE said that they had the perp's DNA from VM's body. Did they say whether it matches any DNA on file ? TIA.

No match in the system, I presume. Or they would have nAiled this guy by now

 

[ThinkHard]

And 2:45 plus the remainder of the run, with a bus to catch at 4:15? Not much time for a shower, pack, plus the half hour ride to Worcester.

The ping was 2:25 not 2:45.

 

[Black Labs]

Radford is a short road with a denser population. It's also pretty narrow so a parked car would basically be in front of someone's house and draw attention. If you ever read the Landmark (the 5-town newspaper), virtually any parked car on the side of a road gets a call into police. So in my opinion, a parked car on BSR would garner attention no matter what. People call the police in town all the time for "suspicious vehicle parked on blah blah blah rd."

I am not sure where "all" of her running routes were, but I know one was BSR, to Rt.31 (much busier) Ball Hill road (less busy) and I saw Radford Rd mentioned (less busy) I would imagine if she ran Radford in a block then Rt. 62 (much busier)
I'd have to look on Ball Hill Rd, but, I do think there is less area there where he could have pulled this off, meaning homes closer to the road, less spaced out etc. but again, not sure. Not sure at all about Radford. Both Radford and Ball Hill Road are narrower, so harder to pull a car off the side.

 

[ForensicMass]

Could very well be. I was thinking she may have lost one if he was dragging her down the path, saw it when he left, and picked it up because it was close to the road where it may be seen.
The partially burned shoe I think says that he burned her clothes. Her feet were burned, so if one shoe was missing, he took off her shoe/shoes and burned them/it separate.

Interesting. I like the lost shoe idea. I don't think the clothes were burned because LE said her clothes were missing, and it's actually pretty difficult to get rid of clothes completely in a fire. There would likely be buttons, fasteners, and scraps of unburned cloth that would indicate that he burned her clothes and thus LE wouldn't say they were "missing". The lost shoe is definitely intriguing though.

 

[ForensicMass]

Actually, LE never did say they had her DNA. What they did say, is, that it was a male. I think MSN took that to mean they found DNA, and they are probably right but as far as I know LE never reported it.

But we have also learned that they are developing a composite of the perp based in genetic markers. So they DO have the DNA

 

[Black Labs]

Boylston Ave is just the part of Brooks Station Rd that is near the town center, essentially the same road.

RADFORD and ALLEN HILL RD are both side-streets. But they are quite narrow- really only one car width- two cars would have to pass each other quite carefully. More importantly, though, these two roads are more like neighborhoods than through streets. The houses are generally denser together. From a map review of RADFORD just about every house appears to have line of sight to the roadway, with not much wooded frontage along the road. Some of the houses on ALLEN HILL RD have greater setbacks., but generally also not much for wooded land bordering the road.
Both of these roads are also very short, only about a third of a mile long each.

BOYLSTON AVE is short, but does connect with BSR and has a pull off at 0.75 miles from where she was found-There is a small pond adjacent. Someone could easily throw a cell phone from the pull off way out into the water body. Wonder if police divers have searched it?

 

[ForensicMass]

The ping was 2:25 not 2:45.

I think Rocky was referencing WHEN she would have crossed the path a second time, had she run the 6 mile loop, then continued past her moms driveway to the north to extend her mileage. This seems unlikely.

 

[ForensicMass]

Boylston Ave is just the part of Brooks Station Rd that is near the town center, essentially the same road.

Every road connects to another. It's still it's own road, no? Those addresses would say BOYLSTON AVE wouldn't they?


I know the layout of the town decently well and I have studied the maps for her routes for several hours.

There are a couple of other places where an abduction could have been possible, but none seem any better than where she was found. And when considering where she started from, the window of opportunity time wise, her final location, and the fact that no one saw her on Worcester RD. ( so many people drive down this road that it would be common knowledge by now if someone saw her on that road and that road would also have become a focal point of the investigation because it would point toward someone coming in from out of town, I believe). If I have to rate the relative probabilities of which road she was picked up on, it would go BSR, BOYLSTON AVE, ALLEN HILL, MOUNTAIN ROAD. I think that BSR leads the pack by a significant margin. Though BOYLSTON AVE near the BSR intersection also seems possible to me.

Disclaimer- I understand we have not heard all of the 1000 tips and there is some chance that she was on another road and that has been told to the police. But we have initial witnesses putting her on BSR. if initial witnesses also put her on Worcester Road, my feeling is that we would have heard that initially when we heard about the other tips regarding her being seen.

 

[ForensicMass]

Just so we can get past WHETHER they have DNA. They DO.

https://www.google.com/amp/whdh.com...-to-give-vanessa-marcottes-killer-a-face/amp/

 

[Mountain man]

Every road connects to another. It's still it's own road, no? Those addresses would say BOYLSTON AVE wouldn't they?


I know the layout of the town decently well and I have studied the maps for her routes for several hours.

There are a couple of other places where an abduction could have been possible, but none seem any better than where she was found. And when considering where she started from, the window of opportunity time wise, her final location, and the fact that no one saw her on Worcester RD. ( so many people drive down this road that it would be common knowledge by now if someone saw her on that road and that road would also have become a focal point of the investigation because it would point toward someone coming in from out of town, I believe). If I have to rate the relative probabilities of which road she was picked up on, it would go BSR, BOYLSTON AVE, ALLEN HILL, MOUNTAIN ROAD. I think that BSR leads the pack by a significant margin. Though BOYLSTON AVE near the BSR intersection also seems possible to me.

Disclaimer- I understand we have not heard all of the 1000 tips and there is some chance that she was on another road and that has been told to the police. But we have initial witnesses putting her on BSR. if initial witnesses also put her on Worcester Road, my feeling is that we would have heard that initially when we heard about the other tips regarding her being seen.

I think Black Labs point here was that Boylston Ave and BSR are one in the same. They merely change names at the intersection of Radford and Connor Lane.

There has been a lot of hypothesis about how quiet BSR is. I don't think we should forget that this was a Sunday and there is a church very close to the CS. That church has a very large congregation that pulls from a large geographical area. My point is that i feel there would be an increase in traffic if anything that day. After service there are often luncheons, bible studies, etc that would have had more people coming and going. IMO opinion that just leads to there being less likely hood of his car being parked for a long time there.

 

[ForensicMass]

I think Black Labs point here was that Boylston Ave and BSR are one in the same. They merely change names at the intersection of Radford and Connor Lane.

There has been a lot of hypothesis about how quiet BSR is. I don't think we should forget that this was a Sunday and there is a church very close to the CS. That church has a very large congregation that pulls from a large geographical area. My point is that i feel there would be an increase in traffic if anything that day. After service there are often luncheons, bible studies, etc that would have had more people coming and going. IMO opinion that just leads to there being less likely hood of his car being parked for a long time there.

That's a good point about the churches. We should find out what times they have mass. Should be pretty easy to find out. Do we know the name of the church ?

 

[Mountain man]

That's a good point about the churches. We should find out what times they have mass. Should be pretty easy to find out. Do we know the name of the church ?

Heritage Bible Chapel is the one right there in BSR

 

[Kickoff61]

I think Black Labs point here was that Boylston Ave and BSR are one in the same. They merely change names at the intersection of Radford and Connor Lane.

There has been a lot of hypothesis about how quiet BSR is. I don't think we should forget that this was a Sunday and there is a church very close to the CS. That church has a very large congregation that pulls from a large geographical area. My point is that i feel there would be an increase in traffic if anything that day. After service there are often luncheons, bible studies, etc that would have had more people coming and going. IMO opinion that just leads to there being less likely hood of his car being parked for a long time there.

I completely agree with you. Thank you. I do not think the vehicle could have been parked there long. Have been saying that quite a while.