MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[liz b.]

True, but would you agree that after looking at the fire damage in the crime scene photos, it was more than a lighter that did that?

Rocky1, Yes, unless he used some type of accelerant...lighter fluid ?

 

[Rocky1]

Rocky1, Yes, unless he used some type of accelerant...lighter fluid ?

It could very well be lighter fluid.
I know a lot here think he used some type of accelerant, and that may be true, but, judging by the amount of ash left behind, along with the amount of that fire LE took back to the lab with them, I am keeping it simple and saying he used what was there. Wood. Small branches of dry wood and a slow building fire to keep the smoke down. Another reason I think he was there a lot longer than 15 minutes.

 

[Evey]

Well we know they didn't find it on the first sweep because it was reported that the phone was missing. As were A single shoe and her clothes.

Finding things is actually my main passion in life. I've got an extensive collection of Native American artifacts that I've spotted in the dirt in the agricultural fields near where I live. I have been using a metal detector to look for old things since I was 12 years old, more than 20 years ago. I found some Roman coins in England this summer just where a Roman left them back in about 160 AD. I wonder if anyone went back to thoroughly check the scene after all of the undergrowth plants had died. It is amazing what you can see in winter that you can't see in summer.

That's why the one shoe in the article I posted with photos of the memorial shrine gave me the creeps. Because it was all pairs and then one. Unless somehow it's the one they found but I doubt that since it's evidence. Glad I'm not the only one who owns a metal detector. We got a wand for my moms last year since I got her obsessed with the curse of oak island and hunting hitler and snake island. Maybe you could use yours at the site?

 

[Evey]

What about the source of the fire being one of those long, click type lighters ? Click and flame, I think they are called. They are easy to use, and unlike a small bic type lighter, the user will not burn his fingers. The long lighters are often used to start BBQ' s, and it was summer. Not uncommon to have such a lighter in the car. jmo

I thought they meant that type at first but I believe they mean the type you'd use for like creme brûlée sit welding but maybe we need someone to post a few photos of the types to limit confusion since when they said torch my mind kept thinking of an actual one. Also do we think he had anything to make the fire? Like how did he burn so little of her if he was using like gasoline or something. I feel like if he had her tied to a pole standing up then the pole would have kept burning so I just don't get how she has such limit burning. It's like the guy did it so we'd think all kinds of things when I think he didn't do it for any actual reason except maybe DNA

 

[Evey]

Grrr.... Take II or III... (Is it just me, or does anyone else get timed out on very quickly when using a cell phone to post, but not using the app? I don't like to load many apps on my phone....)

I'm pretty sure nobody has said they "believe that LE has a perp in mind" - just that it's one *possibility* in their minds that can't be ruled out.

That's where I stood before - and still stand, at least. Nothing in the family press conference or news reports about it (including the CBS one you posted after this post that I'm responding to) precludes that one specific and unusual scenario recently mentioned briefly again (that we can't explore) being a possibility, IMO.

For clarification, my view is broad here - meaning I think it's possible that there could be a relevant connection *of some sorts* betw the two events, not necessarily that the other person could be the perp.

Mine (iPhone) freezes abd reloads a lot so I copy my long replies as I got incase and longer replies lag abd it wont let ne indent or paragraph on any forums on it. But I feel the cops have a few people in mind but nobody set in their mind and no evidence so maybe they keep doing the DNA sweep to hopefully get a hit on one of the perps relatives but suspect multiple people in the area even for some small thing like dating or friends etc

 

[Evey]

Good post. Yup, I'd say the fact that the wording on the website her family set up makes it clear that where she was found was, indeed, where (or near where) she was killed.

As for your question, I'm pretty sure the wording used is just a matter of speech, with "after going for a run" meaning "after leaving for a run." I think you're asking if it has been determined whether she was killed near the beginning of her run or while returning (meaning almost home), correct? If that's what you mean, then no, that has not been determined. Its seems the general consensus on this board is that she was likely killed in the beginning of her run - just a half mile north of her mom's/aunt's house. However, it's also recently been brought up that she might have been doing a brief out and back run that day, which would have put her passing by the cart path twice in a relatively brief time. In which case, he could have grabbed her on her return, as well.

Yes, it's a nice website. Those poor people; nobody should have to suffer like that because there are sickos in this world. I'd bet they worried when she moved to NYC and would never imagine that something like this could happen a half mile from their home.

So let's say this persons walking the path when she runs by him could he then hide and wait knowing she would loop back? Is this a shortcut frlm by her home to the road? Maybe this dude appeared to seem to be out walking his dog. Or something else that she may assume he'd be off the path by the time she's back? I think he did it at the start but wonder if walking a dog would disarm her and make her stop to pet it. She has to be close enough and slow enough to be able to be jumped without someone hearing a scream. How close minute wise is the nearest houses and are the owners single men or odd people? Are there any close to where she stopped early on the one run? If so maybe that's a clue that maybe she saw them outside or saw their car and knew they were home. She either has more social media than we've seen or she doesn't cause of a stalker. I could see her using tumblr. And likely a username like her others. Does anyone know what her Instagram one is off the top of their head or what her fb URL username was? Cause we can use those and search the ones on their own to see what we find cause she may not have put her last name or location. I would like to know if her and KV share any same New York routes

 

[Evey]

I agree.
I don't see any benefit at all with LE mentioning anything about the investigation 3+ months into it if they have solid leads.
If there are right about the SUV, it gives the perp a chance to flee, or cover his tracks etc.
If they are wrong about the SUV, that tells the perp LE is not even close, and may lead him to think he got away with this. That could make him act out again.
Personally, I think the reason they mentioned is because they have no solid leads. JMO.

What if this is a trick to get this guy to get confortable and make a mistake and he doesn't have a SUV or maybe hes magically vacationing or away for work and they hope this makes him come back thinking he's safe so they can do another DNA sweep ans get him? Or his parents own the car and don't or do suspect and they want him to freakout and make them tell the cops. Or a gf. This guy I think it isn't his first and if he's living with his parents I think he's in his mid 20s or would schools have been on vacation? He could have left for school but even back for college break and maybe only returns on them and with summer ending he needed to make his move and when KV was killed he saw a chance to make the cops think a serial killer was to blame and took his parents car(even if he has his own) while they weren't home( if they own two) or in vacation in hopes people would assume he was a cop so when asked he could say he saw the cop parked there if anyone suspects anything. I believe they're friends or he is a neighbors son who would be able to figure out an app log her routine and maybe he's jogged at the same times to scout it out and one time was doing something odd up the road(especially if he lived by the roads her one run stopped short by) to cause her to turn around to be safe. Who knows maybe it's a first kiss or one night stand turned obsessed(especially if it was his first) since I've had one kf thksw go wrong when I wouldn't date them..

 

[Evey]

Should we have someone share the crime scene photos again for any newer people? I can't remember exactly what page or I would track it down but any new eyes could be help. Also he clearly used wood without moss since it makes a lot of smoke. I wonder what stopped the fire? Maybe they found her on fire and they were able to put it out before it spread and caused a lot of damage. Which I think his goal was. Which would beg the question how long before had he started the fire then if it only did what it did? As for the phone if it was found in the woods could that mean it was tossed on the path you guys speak of on the way to his home? Does the path come out directly by some homes? I believe he didn't use a gun or taser to keep her down since she had his DNA under her nails he clearly got scratched because she put up a fight. I think I've read her one shoe was partially burned? it's weird he took off all her clothes and shoes to burn them when he could easily have burned more of her if he left them on. What could that show us? Even with assault I would think he'd leave the shoes or socks and why was this one shoe so far from her and have they said how far exactly? If she was hunched over with her hair draped over her hands and feet and he lit the fire that could burn just those spots but he clearly did the clothes so idk. I am curious what everyone assumes time wise he spent there and what he spent the most on. Between cleaning up and the fire starting and the sexual assault and her trying to fight him off and attacking. And how did she not scratch his eyes? Was he very tall? Wearing glasses? And could her self defense class post made the person think he needed to act now before she goes and learns whatever could help her defend herself. Which shows obsession over her. But if the phone was found in the woods off the path on the opposite end of the path then maybe he was walking home and tossed it? How far would he have had to take her to get her there? And I wonder if he pretended to be hurt to play on her being a good person since I'm sure a stalker knows she volunteers. Which that makes me wonder what type of people she would be around for that and could she have met some other volunteer and became close enough that he found her routine out.

 

[Evey]

Oh just an idea but could a friend of hers been attacked or stalked causing her to want others to take the class? Because who knows if they were then maybe this person is the person. And anyone with knowledge of bus times back who knows she runs could i bet be able to roughly guess when she would run. As for next victims there coukd be already and we don't know. But this guy doesn't seem the traveling killer type unless he briefly goes out of town for work. I wonder was he burning the other shoe when he was startled by sirens or dogs barking? Signaling the search dogs. I thought I read that the dads scent when he was out looking for her kept confusing the dogs which why would that be? I'm not familiar if the family could smell like them and confuse the dogs or if they'd be confused by someoe being out there. But I believe they used the word cadaver dogs which wouldn't they wait until normal dogs looked first? I guess to my knowledge no articles before she was found exist describing her clothing or times or last to talk to her etc

 

[Evey]

We also mever hear if she had any jewelry on even each earrings and if they were missing and if she had sunglasses and if those were missing or if the headphones for her phone if any were found. Since she was strangled maybe that's how. Strangling to me like burning feels personal

 

[The Farm]

I, too, am very interested in the burns. Let's confirm the torch theory or eliminate it completely.

Morning all,

I was thinking, wouldnt LE take all the burned trees/branches for evidence? Or did they leave them there?

 

[Gussified]

And could her self defense class post made the person think he needed to act now before she goes and learns whatever could help her defend herself. Which shows obsession over her.

I thought the self defense class post was from like a year or more ago, when another young woman was abducted and killed in Boston.



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[Evey]

I thought the self defense class post was from like a year or more ago, when another young woman was abducted and killed in Boston.



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I for some reason thought it was near the KV case but I never saw it with my own eyes. Would she have known the girl? If so how close was the post she made(if anyone can find the date, I would but I'm about to pass out since its 7am) to the weird short run and privacy settings change?

 

[Evey]

Also if anyone knows what they teach in most typical ones then what would she have been doing that day and have done when it all happened that could gives us clues. Like if for example they teach you to not go down any dark alley or forest trail alone we could say she may not likely have used the path or just thins like it. I ant believe she lacked pepper spray or mace yet took the class if she ever took it. It would be taken in new year I feel like since she soends mlst the week there but I feel she would switch up her routines and not want to do things alone and wouldn't want to run in sexy clothes etc and I wonder if she's the type who gets fake nails because those could scratch bad and likely broke off in tears struggle. He had to be much bigger and stronger than her or very skilled at getting her subdued fast since she didn't take off running snd nobody heard screams

 

[Gussified]

I for some reason thought it was near the KV case but I never saw it with my own eyes. Would she have known the girl? If so how close was the post she made(if anyone can find the date, I would but I'm about to pass out since its 7am) to the weird short run and privacy settings change?

This article
http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/08/vanessa_marcottes_tweet.html
Says it was 2 days after Amy Lords abduction and murder, in July 2013, when VM tweeted about a self-defense class in Boston. The article also says the place offering the classes she tweeted about has no record of VM ever attending.

Seems like the change in her privacy settings was in 2015. So I don't think the two (self-defense tweet and privacy) are related.
Jmo

ETA of course, she could have taken self-defense classes elsewhere

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[Sheila Terranova]

I have a question. Assuming the typical profile applies: white male 20s 30s *advertiser censored* messed up childhood probably some history of exposing self or groping or peeking or rape or "just"violence. And he either just had a big change ( divorce fired girlfriend left him just moved here)or possibly just began drinking heavily or just left town. How many locals without a solid alibi could possibly fit that description? Sorry for the generalities and sort of dumb question.

 

[Emb72]

Morning all,

I was thinking, wouldnt LE take all the burned trees/branches for evidence? Or did they leave them there?

From the pics that are somewhere in this thread or a previous one, it looks as if they left some standing. It is worth finding to look at unless someone can bring them to this thread.

 

[ForensicMass]

Morning all,

I was thinking, wouldnt LE take all the burned trees/branches for evidence? Or did they leave them there?

Some of the burn marks appeared to be on trees that were still growing. Or at least still rooted.

 

[ForensicMass]

For what it's worth on the defense classes issue. I asked my girlfriend who is Vanessa's age if she had ever taken a self-defense class and she had not. I then asked her if she knew what to do if someone were to try to attack her in that situation and she said that the number one thing is that she would not allow anyone to put her into a vehicle, as she was aware that her chances of surviving diminish greatly if someone gets her into the car. I think it's fair to say that whether or not Vanessa took self-defense classes she was certainly aware of self-defense classes since she referenced them in her old post and therefore I think she was also aware of basic self-defense strategies. I believe that there is no way that Vanessa would allow someone to forcibly put her into an automobile against her will.

I still think that someone tried to get her into a vehicle and she resisted with everything she had because she knew enough to reason that resisting immediately gave her the best chance of escaping the situation.

 

[The Farm]

Yes from what my feeble mind can remember of the pictures they were growing and rooted. So wouldnt LE have cut them and taken it in as evidence is what I mean?? And they might not be there when you get a chance to go FM.