MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

[ForensicMass]

Spent several hours reading previous threads, a lot has been discussed with intriguing insights. Unfortunately, I cannot read every post, I just don't have the time. A few thoughts...

1. A majority sentiment on the thread doesn't mean it's right or that the opposing view can't be discussed.
2. If the DNA did match, IMO there's more of a reason to not disclose that information than if they didn't match.
3. You don't need to live in an area to be familiar with the area. There are logistical difficulties absolutely! But I'm not convinced that would stop a psycho who could have an obsession / fascination with VM.
4. IMO similarities are not overstated. Runners come in all different shapes and sizes even though they are all runners. Especially in looks: hair color, hair type, eyes, facial features, skin tone, distinguishing features, etc.. And then you have the same MO in pretty close proximity against two women living in NYC.

It's very likely these are two unrelated cases, because unfortunately it's very easy to target female runners and get away with it. These cases are only two of thousands of crimes committed against female joggers over the years. However, IMO the similarities shouldn't be denied or ignored especially when LE hasn't confirmed them as separate incidents.

All JMO.

Searunners post was excellent. I'm responding to this one though, since my response is to both.

I respect all opinions. And I also understand that people have busy lives and that reading ALL the posts on this thread is time consuming. I work 2 full time jobs. It took me about two weeks of nightly reading to get to the then-most-current thread. I don't want to come off the wrong way here- everyone loves to have opinions and join the conversation. And new ideas aren't just welcome, they are needed. But when someone joins who "doesn't have the time to read all the posts", younhave to understand that the opinions of that person are going to carry less weight than those who are more familiar with the details and historical discussions. And at worst, uninformed. We need you in this conversation. If you have a solid interest in the case I would love to have a few
More
People in here who read from the beginning.

There are so many reasons to believe that these cases are not related. Media sensationalizing is behind most of the appearance of similarity. I think if we are looking for connection to other crimes we should be looking at northboro and westborough abduction attempts. As I'll discuss in a subsequent post.

 

[searunner]

Searunners post was excellent. I'm responding to this one though, since my response is to both.

I respect all opinions. And I also understand that people have busy lives and that reading ALL the posts on this thread is time consuming. I work 2 full time jobs. It took me about two weeks of nightly reading to get to the then-most-current thread. I don't want to come off the wrong way here- everyone loves to have opinions and join the conversation. And new ideas aren't just welcome, they are needed. But when someone joins who "doesn't have the time to read all the posts", younhave to understand that the opinions of that person are going to carry less weight than those who are more familiar with the details and historical discussions. And at worst, uninformed. We need you in this conversation. If you have a solid interest in the case I would love to have a few
More
People in here who read from the beginning.

There are so many reasons to believe that these cases are not related. Media sensationalizing is behind most of the appearance of similarity. I think if we are looking for connection to other crimes we should be looking at northboro and westborough abduction attempts. As I'll discuss in a subsequent post.

Good to see you're still around, FM. This thread needs your skills.

Fully with you on the possible link to nearby abduction attempts. Coincidentally, perhaps, I started googling around about that same topic sometime last week. Didn't get too far -- busy week and w/e. Will have some time later this wk. Really interested to hear your thoughts on this topic.

The fact that Vanessa's killing was so brazen definitely suggests that the perp has at least attempted similar crimes in the past. (And, yes, I *lean* toward the attempted abduction theory, but am open to the lay-in-wait one, as well).

 

[ForensicMass]

Reviewing the June 23rd Northboro and Westborough attempted abductions.

At the time of Vanessa's murder, these incidents seemed to me to be just coincidental to the murder. But after almost 6 months with no similar reported incidents, I'm wondering if perhaps there was a connection.

The details of the cases.

Thurs. June 23rd. 10:30am. A lone female jogger running a wooded stretch of road (Lyman Street) passed a man standing at a point where the road bridges over a railroad track. Shortly after she passed him, she realized that he was chasing after her. When she turned to confront him, he ran away toward Talbot road. She later recalled seeing a small dark car turn down talbot road.

That same day, While police were Investigating the incident, a second caller reported that she too was jogging that same day, alone near Chauncey Lake, near the area of the first incident. She ran by a small dark car parked along the road with its hood up. A short time later two males in this car pulled up beside her (some sources reported the car was circling her). She ran and was able to get away.

The northboro and Westborough incidents were apparently related (both occurred near the border between the two towns), and a composite of a suspect was generated. He was believed to be a Hispanic male approx 5'8". In his 30s.

Relevance to VM case?:

Consider:

Brazen attack during daylight hours

Lone female joggers in each of the 3 incidents

Lyman st jogger was along a wooded stretch of road. Presumably the Chauncey lake victim was in a similar area, though I can't find specific info

The scenes and VM's location are 28 miles apart- 40 mins drive.

All towns involved are relatively well-off, similar demographic. (Though Princeton is probably nicest)

Both the northboro/Westborough locations and the VM cart path are precisely 30 mins from Main Street Worcester.

Car reportedly involved in the crime

 

[Coleraine]

Great summary of the two attempts in Northboro and Westborough in late June, FM. These seem to be attempts by a man (or men) who were driven to attack/abduct a woman that day and used methods that, though they were unsuccessful, have been discussed as possible methods used by Vanessa's killer.

It makes sense to me that he/they might have laid low for 6 weeks and then tried again, successfully this time, in Princeton.

 

[Coleraine]

I am also still leaning toward the theory that Vanessa's killer did not know her, nor targeted her before that day.

On June 22, a woman was attacked while running in Forest Park, Springfield. She was grabbed from behind and her screams "caught the attention of some teenagers nearby." In mid-July, a jogger was attacked and stabbed with pruning shears while running in a public park in Plymouth, MA. I'm not citing these cases because I believe that there is a connection with the attack on Vanessa, but because I believe the idea of a crime of opportunity is not as uncommon as it might seem.

http://wwlp.com/2016/06/22/police-woman-reportedly-attacked-in-forest-park/

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/lo...h_park_employee_charged_with_attack_on_jogger

 

[msphilosopher]

Great finds. Really just wishing there was more information available. :tantrum:

 

[Joshua M]

A few things:

- If the killer knew of Vanessa’s routine, that would in my view lessen the chancethat the SUV or any vehicle was involved. If he knew of her routine, why notjust wait for her on foot at the cart path on Sunday from midday onwards rather than massively increasing your chances of getting detected by placing your vehicle at the scene? Not that I am convinced that a dark SUV was necessarilyinvolved (after all, that info was released some four months after the murderand was very generic in nature). But if it was involved, then that significantly lessens the possibility that the killer knew her routine.

- And hell, the way this thing has been pulled off, maybe he did know her routine or knew she was jogging down BSR that day and it was pre-meditated and planned inadvance brilliantly. Just think of everything that went right (he succeeded in nobody seeing or hearing anything after taking Vanessa from a semi-busy road in broad daylight; he had equipment on hand to burn her but not start a big firethat would get noticed; he succeeded in burning her on the likely contact points; he succeeded in either taking her clothing away or destroying it by burning it; and finally he succeeded in getting away with it so far as in there is no sign that the crime is near being solved some 6 months later). Maybe weare underestimating how much it was planned and expertly executed.

- The cart path/the end of the guard rail is such a great location for the killer. He can see Vanessa running up towards him, but she likely can’t see him. The initial capture of Vanessa was so perfect. Nobody saw or heard anything. This suggests to me that he got very close to her; that she didn’t see him, or only at the last moment. It also may suggest that he may have chosen that exact location,and the woods behind it where nobody could see the crime. Rather than thatlocation being random.

- I have a problem with the idea that he was patiently laying in wait for any female to run past that spot at that time. It was a warm, early Summer afternoon (1pm). If this was his modus operandi, why not wait until much later in the afternoon when it’s cooler and when there is far more chance of joggers coming by? Or even early evening under the cover of darkness or near darkness. I think he wanted Vanessa specifically…either having seen her on BSR after she left her Mom’s house, or alternatively having seen her before and knowing her routine. And she likely fits his victim profile – good looking, and petite enough to be overpowered.

- I keep getting stuck on the burning. It could be for any number of reasons (sadism, or to stop her running away etc.) but to me it’s most likely to have been done to eliminate DNA. The face, feet and head are all likely points of contact (especially the feet and hands given that he reportedly inflicted ‘scrapes andscratches on him) – perhaps he used a condom if he raped her. Anyway, if you were from out of town and not in the system, why bother with trying to destroy DNA? You’ve just committed a heinous crime that nobody has witnessed. Just get the hell out of there. To my mind it was somebody who thought they may comeunder suspicion. That would be for one of two reasons – that they either knewVanessa well, or they are a local (perhaps very local) who plans to stay on in Princeton.

- The forlorn appearance of Vanessa’s family pre-Christmas suggests to me that LE is nowhere close to solving this case (that’s assuming that they are keeping the family broadly abreast of the investigation’s progress or lack thereof). The family’s plea for further tips – both verbally and the holding up of the sign displaying the hotline number – and just their general demeanour suggests that this case is a long way from a conclusion. Not that I would have expected her family to appear anything than absolutely heartbroken given what they have lost. But they just appeared to me to be absolutely forlorn and desperate for new leads.

- Typically,in my experience, when LE are quiet in the weeks and months after a terrible murder like this…it’s a good sign. They are closing in, and don’t need public assistance (they’re not asking for more tips from the public; they’re not offering large cash rewards etc.). However, in this case, it seems they are struggling. If they are not closing in on the killer, then it’s desperately disappointing that they are not making more of an effort to keep the case in the public consciousness. That is not to suggest that LE are there to entertain us, or to sate our curiosity. Far from it. But if they are still nowhere near an arrest, then at least a fresh appeal for more information from the public or just an update on the case would be most welcome.

 

[Evey]

Yes, most certainly appreciated your summary! I did not mean to sound challenging but simply expressing my thoughts when reading your post.

Thank you for welcoming my minority opinion :dance:

I am with Evey in that the cases are related. However, I realize it's more likely that they aren't and definitely interested in exploring other avenues.

If they are the question USB Evers is his hunting ground? The train station somewhere jogging related etc I know if I was the cops I wouldn't want tobtell the public of a serial killer just yet and cause panic and risk the killer leaving the country. They would likely hooe but jogger related crimes itself would scare them into being safe. And the killer will kill again with or without it being out there that he's the same dude if he is so I see more reason to not announce it. But if another crime too close to these two happens I'll have my answer cause right now I'm opennto all ideas but from the day this one happened my gut said same guy

 

[Evey]

BBM - IMO if the DNA matches, it's not what LE would gain that is the issue, it's what they would lose. Risks associated with releasing this information:

- Puts the perp on HIGH alert, on the defensive
- Risk killer changing his MO (more difficult to connect murders, capture & determine common link)
- Public panic & media frenzy -- Sets unnecessary obstacles to the investigation

IMO, if the DNA did not match then they wouldn't lose anything by saying so. So that tells me that either the DNA did match or that the results were inconclusive for whatever reason.

Exactly and the murders should scare joggers into being safer but a serial killer would cause panic even more so

 

[Evey]

A few things:

- If the killer knew of Vanessa’s routine, that would in my view lessen the chancethat the SUV or any vehicle was involved. If he knew of her routine, why notjust wait for her on foot at the cart path on Sunday from midday onwards rather than massively increasing your chances of getting detected by placing your vehicle at the scene? Not that I am convinced that a dark SUV was necessarilyinvolved (after all, that info was released some four months after the murderand was very generic in nature). But if it was involved, then that significantly lessens the possibility that the killer knew her routine.

- And hell, the way this thing has been pulled off, maybe he did know her routine or knew she was jogging down BSR that day and it was pre-meditated and planned inadvance brilliantly. Just think of everything that went right (he succeeded in nobody seeing or hearing anything after taking Vanessa from a semi-busy road in broad daylight; he had equipment on hand to burn her but not start a big firethat would get noticed; he succeeded in burning her on the likely contact points; he succeeded in either taking her clothing away or destroying it by burning it; and finally he succeeded in getting away with it so far as in there is no sign that the crime is near being solved some 6 months later). Maybe weare underestimating how much it was planned and expertly executed.

- The cart path/the end of the guard rail is such a great location for the killer. He can see Vanessa running up towards him, but she likely can’t see him. The initial capture of Vanessa was so perfect. Nobody saw or heard anything. This suggests to me that he got very close to her; that she didn’t see him, or only at the last moment. It also may suggest that he may have chosen that exact location,and the woods behind it where nobody could see the crime. Rather than thatlocation being random.

- I have a problem with the idea that he was patiently laying in wait for any female to run past that spot at that time. It was a warm, early Summer afternoon (1pm). If this was his modus operandi, why not wait until much later in the afternoon when it’s cooler and when there is far more chance of joggers coming by? Or even early evening under the cover of darkness or near darkness. I think he wanted Vanessa specifically…either having seen her on BSR after she left her Mom’s house, or alternatively having seen her before and knowing her routine. And she likely fits his victim profile – good looking, and petite enough to be overpowered.

- I keep getting stuck on the burning. It could be for any number of reasons (sadism, or to stop her running away etc.) but to me it’s most likely to have been done to eliminate DNA. The face, feet and head are all likely points of contact (especially the feet and hands given that he reportedly inflicted ‘scrapes andscratches on him) – perhaps he used a condom if he raped her. Anyway, if you were from out of town and not in the system, why bother with trying to destroy DNA? You’ve just committed a heinous crime that nobody has witnessed. Just get the hell out of there. To my mind it was somebody who thought they may comeunder suspicion. That would be for one of two reasons – that they either knewVanessa well, or they are a local (perhaps very local) who plans to stay on in Princeton.

- The forlorn appearance of Vanessa’s family pre-Christmas suggests to me that LE is nowhere close to solving this case (that’s assuming that they are keeping the family broadly abreast of the investigation’s progress or lack thereof). The family’s plea for further tips – both verbally and the holding up of the sign displaying the hotline number – and just their general demeanour suggests that this case is a long way from a conclusion. Not that I would have expected her family to appear anything than absolutely heartbroken given what they have lost. But they just appeared to me to be absolutely forlorn and desperate for new leads.

- Typically,in my experience, when LE are quiet in the weeks and months after a terrible murder like this…it’s a good sign. They are closing in, and don’t need public assistance (they’re not asking for more tips from the public; they’re not offering large cash rewards etc.). However, in this case, it seems they are struggling. If they are not closing in on the killer, then it’s desperately disappointing that they are not making more of an effort to keep the case in the public consciousness. That is not to suggest that LE are there to entertain us, or to sate our curiosity. Far from it. But if they are still nowhere near an arrest, then at least a fresh appeal for more information from the public or just an update on the case would be most welcome.

I agree and feel is was very well planned and maybe he spots the jogger of his liking somewhere then starts planning and if those other girls were related those were practice runs or just runs where something risked him getting caught and made him stop. The burning I think is DNA and for whatever things she may have touches when in his possession that could lead bvk to him and if we could figure out based on the area what something someone woukd be easily traced to because of whatever is on the body then I think we could find stuff out maybe. Idk about the SUV cause for all we know he called an über to pick him up so ppl would look for lne. When maybe he doesn't even own a car. Either way I think he at least knew her in a sense that he saw her somewhere and became obsessed because to me there's no way something would workout so well for something not planned. And don't most unplanned ones get caught quickly?

 

[Kickoff61]

A few things:

- If the killer knew of Vanessa’s routine, that would in my view lessen the chancethat the SUV or any vehicle was involved. If he knew of her routine, why notjust wait for her on foot at the cart path on Sunday from midday onwards rather than massively increasing your chances of getting detected by placing your vehicle at the scene? Not that I am convinced that a dark SUV was necessarilyinvolved (after all, that info was released some four months after the murderand was very generic in nature). But if it was involved, then that significantly lessens the possibility that the killer knew her routine.

- And hell, the way this thing has been pulled off, maybe he did know her routine or knew she was jogging down BSR that day and it was pre-meditated and planned inadvance brilliantly. Just think of everything that went right (he succeeded in nobody seeing or hearing anything after taking Vanessa from a semi-busy road in broad daylight; he had equipment on hand to burn her but not start a big firethat would get noticed; he succeeded in burning her on the likely contact points; he succeeded in either taking her clothing away or destroying it by burning it; and finally he succeeded in getting away with it so far as in there is no sign that the crime is near being solved some 6 months later). Maybe weare underestimating how much it was planned and expertly executed.

- The cart path/the end of the guard rail is such a great location for the killer. He can see Vanessa running up towards him, but she likely can’t see him. The initial capture of Vanessa was so perfect. Nobody saw or heard anything. This suggests to me that he got very close to her; that she didn’t see him, or only at the last moment. It also may suggest that he may have chosen that exact location,and the woods behind it where nobody could see the crime. Rather than thatlocation being random.

- I have a problem with the idea that he was patiently laying in wait for any female to run past that spot at that time. It was a warm, early Summer afternoon (1pm). If this was his modus operandi, why not wait until much later in the afternoon when it’s cooler and when there is far more chance of joggers coming by? Or even early evening under the cover of darkness or near darkness. I think he wanted Vanessa specifically…either having seen her on BSR after she left her Mom’s house, or alternatively having seen her before and knowing her routine. And she likely fits his victim profile – good looking, and petite enough to be overpowered.

- I keep getting stuck on the burning. It could be for any number of reasons (sadism, or to stop her running away etc.) but to me it’s most likely to have been done to eliminate DNA. The face, feet and head are all likely points of contact (especially the feet and hands given that he reportedly inflicted ‘scrapes andscratches on him) – perhaps he used a condom if he raped her. Anyway, if you were from out of town and not in the system, why bother with trying to destroy DNA? You’ve just committed a heinous crime that nobody has witnessed. Just get the hell out of there. To my mind it was somebody who thought they may comeunder suspicion. That would be for one of two reasons – that they either knewVanessa well, or they are a local (perhaps very local) who plans to stay on in Princeton.

- The forlorn appearance of Vanessa’s family pre-Christmas suggests to me that LE is nowhere close to solving this case (that’s assuming that they are keeping the family broadly abreast of the investigation’s progress or lack thereof). The family’s plea for further tips – both verbally and the holding up of the sign displaying the hotline number – and just their general demeanour suggests that this case is a long way from a conclusion. Not that I would have expected her family to appear anything than absolutely heartbroken given what they have lost. But they just appeared to me to be absolutely forlorn and desperate for new leads.

- Typically,in my experience, when LE are quiet in the weeks and months after a terrible murder like this…it’s a good sign. They are closing in, and don’t need public assistance (they’re not asking for more tips from the public; they’re not offering large cash rewards etc.). However, in this case, it seems they are struggling. If they are not closing in on the killer, then it’s desperately disappointing that they are not making more of an effort to keep the case in the public consciousness. That is not to suggest that LE are there to entertain us, or to sate our curiosity. Far from it. But if they are still nowhere near an arrest, then at least a fresh appeal for more information from the public or just an update on the case would be most welcome.

Excellent post Joshua.

 

[msphilosopher]

I agree and feel is was very well planned and maybe he spots the jogger of his liking somewhere then starts planning and if those other girls were related those were practice runs or just runs where something risked him getting caught and made him stop. The burning I think is DNA and for whatever things she may have touches when in his possession that could lead bvk to him and if we could figure out based on the area what something someone woukd be easily traced to because of whatever is on the body then I think we could find stuff out maybe. Idk about the SUV cause for all we know he called an über to pick him up so ppl would look for lne. When maybe he doesn't even own a car. Either way I think he at least knew her in a sense that he saw her somewhere and became obsessed because to me there's no way something would workout so well for something not planned. And don't most unplanned ones get caught quickly?

BBM - I think the burning if for DNA too. If for a second we consider the killings are done by the same perp. And that KV is the perp's first killing of this nature, then the burning makes complete sense to me because it suggests that perhaps the perp took extraordinary lengths with KV to make sure he would not be seen, leave no sperm, when and how to attack, and where to leave the body without drawing any attention. However, from the press coverage of KV's murder it was expressed over and over again that she fought the killer and left scratches and skin DNA under the finger nails. Also, that the neck was partially broken and appeared that he under estimated her strength.

Now, take VM's killing. The only real change is the burning of hands, feet, etc... to me this says the perp learned his lesson from KV to not leave DNA evidence under the finger nails etc. Something he accounted for with VM but not with KV.

All JMO & highly speculative!

 

[searunner]

Reviewing the June 23rd Northboro and Westborough attempted abductions.

At the time of Vanessa's murder, these incidents seemed to me to be just coincidental to the murder. But after almost 6 months with no similar reported incidents, I'm wondering if perhaps there was a connection.

The details of the cases.

Thurs. June 23rd. 10:30am. A lone female jogger running a wooded stretch of road (Lyman Street) passed a man standing at a point where the road bridges over a railroad track. Shortly after she passed him, she realized that he was chasing after her. When she turned to confront him, he ran away toward Talbot road. She later recalled seeing a small dark car turn down talbot road.

That same day, While police were Investigating the incident, a second caller reported that she too was jogging that same day, alone near Chauncey Lake, near the area of the first incident. She ran by a small dark car parked along the road with its hood up. A short time later two males in this car pulled up beside her (some sources reported the car was circling her). She ran and was able to get away.

The northboro and Westborough incidents were apparently related (both occurred near the border between the two towns), and a composite of a suspect was generated. He was believed to be a Hispanic male approx 5'8". In his 30s.

Relevance to VM case?:

Consider:

Brazen attack during daylight hours

Lone female joggers in each of the 3 incidents

Lyman st jogger was along a wooded stretch of road. Presumably the Chauncey lake victim was in a similar area, though I can't find specific info

The scenes and VM's location are 28 miles apart- 40 mins drive.

All towns involved are relatively well-off, similar demographic. (Though Princeton is probably nicest)

Both the northboro/Westborough locations and the VM cart path are precisely 30 mins from Main Street Worcester.

Car reportedly involved in the crime

Thanks for the great summary, FM.

Thank God those women were able to get away -- it's chilling to think what could have happened to them. It makes me SO mad that women cannot even go out for a walk/run alone in nice areas in broad daylight without potentially having some sicko man/men attack them. (Women runners/walkers: pepper spray or a stun gun visible in your hand = your best friend. Stun guns are not legal in Mass and a handful of other states, FWIW. )

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be too much info out there on these attempted abductions. As support for this possible theory, Coleraine's comment makes sense to me: "It makes sense to me that he/they might have laid low for 6 weeks and then tried again..."

What particularly sticks out at me from your summary is the fact that two men were involved in one of the incidents and the distances being the same from downtown Worchester. It's easier to fit two people into the scenario in Vanessa's case. And the distance thing...well, seems very coincidental. Your premise, I'm assuming, is that they could be based in Worchester. It would make sense that after two failed attempts in the Westborough/Northboro area that he/they would go in another direction for the next attempt. I read that police presence was stepped up in Westborough/Northboro...not sure for how long, though. Certainly, he/they would have to be idiots to go back to that same area where women would be on higher alert and there might still be increased police presence.

Of course, if LE would do the DNA phenotyping that would help immensely. If that showed the perp likely has traits more commonly associated with Hispanics that would provide support for this theory you threw out as a possibility. And if the phenotyping showed he likely has, say, blue eyes and lighter skin...well...you get it.

Anyway, it's a good thought on your end. It seems very unlikely that someone who committed such an extremely violent and brazen act doesn't have past crimes (which he's gotten away with, since his DNA is not in the system) or attempted crimes in his history. Possible, of course, but doesn't seem probable.

The more possible scenarios to explore, the better.

 

[Evey]

BBM - I think the burning if for DNA too. If for a second we consider the killings are done by the same perp. And that KV is the perp's first killing of this nature, then the burning makes complete sense to me because it suggests that perhaps the perp took extraordinary lengths with KV to make sure he would not be seen, leave no sperm, when and how to attack, and where to leave the body without drawing any attention. However, from the press coverage of KV's murder it was expressed over and over again that she fought the killer and left scratches and skin DNA under the finger nails. Also, that the neck was partially broken and appeared that he under estimated her strength.

Now, take VM's killing. The only real change is the burning of hands, feet, etc... to me this says the perp learned his lesson from KV to not leave DNA evidence under the finger nails etc. Something he accounted for with VM but not with KV.

All JMO & highly speculative!

Exactly and the spot was more secluded and Vanessa smaller so its like he's learning. And tweaking it and figured burn the DNA and now o semen etc and if for some reason ally bruger is also related(young brunette jogging secluded area) it could be his first kill but it lacked rape or strangling so I don't think it is

 

[Joshua M]

Reviewing the June 23rd Northboro and Westborough attempted abductions.

At the time of Vanessa's murder, these incidents seemed to me to be just coincidental to the murder. But after almost 6 months with no similar reported incidents, I'm wondering if perhaps there was a connection.

The details of the cases.

Thurs. June 23rd. 10:30am. A lone female jogger running a wooded stretch of road (Lyman Street) passed a man standing at a point where the road bridges over a railroad track. Shortly after she passed him, she realized that he was chasing after her. When she turned to confront him, he ran away toward Talbot road. She later recalled seeing a small dark car turn down talbot road.

That same day, While police were Investigating the incident, a second caller reported that she too was jogging that same day, alone near Chauncey Lake, near the area of the first incident. She ran by a small dark car parked along the road with its hood up. A short time later two males in this car pulled up beside her (some sources reported the car was circling her). She ran and was able to get away.

The northboro and Westborough incidents were apparently related (both occurred near the border between the two towns), and a composite of a suspect was generated. He was believed to be a Hispanic male approx 5'8". In his 30s.

Relevance to VM case?:

Consider:

Brazen attack during daylight hours

Lone female joggers in each of the 3 incidents

Lyman st jogger was along a wooded stretch of road. Presumably the Chauncey lake victim was in a similar area, though I can't find specific info

The scenes and VM's location are 28 miles apart- 40 mins drive.

All towns involved are relatively well-off, similar demographic. (Though Princeton is probably nicest)

Both the northboro/Westborough locations and the VM cart path are precisely 30 mins from Main Street Worcester.

Car reportedly involved in the crime

Awesome post. I did not see this when I was on here last time.

As you say, the similarities and relevance is striking - only 40 minutes away from Vanessa's crime, dark car, lone female jogger, brazenly in broad daylight.

That there were two men involved in one of the incidents would also fit neatly with Vanessa's case - in the sense that some folk on here believe that if there was a car involved, it was parked out on BSR for only a short time (perhaps to drop one of the perpetrators off further up BSR (to hide near the guard rail?) or to put the hood up, and then to pick that person up some time later after he'd finished with Vanessa). That it may have been parked for just a short time may also explain why the description LE have released of the vehicle in Vanessa's case is so generic / so unspecific (not many witnesses saw it).

 

[Coleraine]

For some reason I'm having trouble replying with quote, but I wanted to say that I agree with your statement above, searunner, that "It seems very unlikely that someone who committed such an extremely violent and brazen act doesn't have past crimes (which he's gotten away with since his DNA is not in the system) or attempted crimes in his history. Possible, of course, but doesn't seem probably."

When I tried to find some statistical evidence to back it up, I found a Bureau of Justice Statistics study of violent felons in large urban counties posted in 2007 on their website. The study “presents data [from 1990-2002] collected from a representative sample of felony cases that resulted in a felony conviction for a violent offense in 40 of the Nation's 75 largest counties. The study tracks cases for up to 1 year from the date of filing through final disposition. Defendants convicted of murder, rape, robbery, assault or other violent felonies are described in terms of demographic characteristics (gender, race, Hispanic origin, age), prior arrests and convictions, criminal justice status at time of arrest, type of pretrial release or detention, type of adjudication, and sentence received.”
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

What I found so surprising was in the “prior arrests” statistics. Not surprisingly, 67% of murderers had an arrest record, but 33% did not. A third of the convicted murderers in this study did not have an arrest record. It’s this statistic that makes me wish that there was a study that looked further into correlation between murder with no prior arrest record and knowledge of/relation to the victim. I would think that a murderer with no prior arrest record and no connection to the victim would be very difficult to find.

 

[Coleraine]

In one of the articles about Northboro and Westborough, it was noted that “In the days after the initial incident, Westborough Police Chief Alan Gordon said police fielded multiple reports of a suspicious man on Chauncy Street near Lake Chauncy from female runners. Gordon said the man never approached or harmed any of the women. ‘He only seemed out of place,’ Gordon said.”

There’s no detail about the additional reports. Did this “suspicious man” in the later reports look like the previous description? Did all reports describe the same man? If it was the same guy, then the fact that he was hanging around the area days later belies the theory that he and his possible accomplice were laying low until he/they found another place—Princeton—to hunt for victims. Again, the lack of follow-up and detail about the two incidents is frustrating.

http://westborough.wickedlocal.com/...idents-involving-runners-get-renewed-scrutiny

 

[ForensicMass]

In one of the articles about Northboro and Westborough, it was noted that “In the days after the initial incident, Westborough Police Chief Alan Gordon said police fielded multiple reports of a suspicious man on Chauncy Street near Lake Chauncy from female runners. Gordon said the man never approached or harmed any of the women. ‘He only seemed out of place,’ Gordon said.”

There’s no detail about the additional reports. Did this “suspicious man” in the later reports look like the previous description? Did all reports describe the same man? If it was the same guy, then the fact that he was hanging around the area days later belies the theory that he and his possible accomplice were laying low until he/they found another place—Princeton—to hunt for victims. Again, the lack of follow-up and detail about the two incidents is frustrating.

http://westborough.wickedlocal.com/...idents-involving-runners-get-renewed-scrutiny

Or perhaps he may have seen the article you referenced and at that point decided to hunt elsewhere. People also find weird rationales for their behaviors. It could be that he felt like if he hung around that same area without committing any crimes that would explain why someone might remember/identify him being around that area. He was there but only innocently. Because that's near where he lives or something. Just thoughts.

 

[searunner]

Hi all -

I came across what I thought was an excellent article (though I have a couple quibbles with it) on serial killers the other day. Not saying Vanessa was killed by a serial killer, but it's worth a read, I think. And some of the info seems to apply to murderers, in general.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/garry-rodgers/how-to-avoid-being-murder_b_8707446.html

Coleraine -- thanks for the stats, etc. Will comment soon. "Coleraine" as in Ireland?

 

[Emb72]

I know this is VM'S thread but wanted to share that an arrest has been made in Karina Vetrano's case!!! Prayers for the same in VM'S case and soon..