GUILTY MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #8 *Arrest*

[Evey]

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2017/04/princeton_postal_worker_recall.html

For anyone who hasn't seen that yet the stuff she says for me swayed me fully to planned. And like he could easily be making off the schedule drops days he could have ran into her and maybe pretended to want to know where a good place to run was to find where she runs. With how close it is to her moms it makes me wonder if he or someone else kept watch for her to leave her house then drove down there and parked.

I'm not sure who's more cocky, him or the Delphi killer.

 

[Evey]

Was the time when she made her running map thing private around the same time he would have moved there and started working for them? I forget I believe it was forensicmass who looked into that but I'm not sure. But it would be intriguing if it coincided with his moving

 

[Evey]

Its my umderstanding the brother is Adrian, lease is under his name is what I read


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I read he was living with him but didn't see it say he no longer wasn't or if he still did.

 

[Evey]

I teach in a large urban city west of Worcester (similar size and demographics) and it's very common for families to move back and forth between MA and Puerto Rico throughout their children's education. I am curious if he has actually lived in the US before, maybe some years in childhood or younger adulthood.
JMO

If he did then he could have met her when they were younger and maybe went to school together and started his obsession off early. It would explain how he got that job so fast since from what I'm told those usually aren't super easy ones to snag and can't see him getting it so fast and easily if he didn't have a connection.

Either way I think they'd met before but she may have found him creepy but was nice and felt guilty not offering help. He could have delivered to her parents and met that way. And like someone mentioned, there are way easier targets that aren't out where she was where he wasn't just going to find a jogger for sure. I wonder if he knew of the carte pat he and that's why he picked the spot

 

[writermom]

Thank you all for your great sleuthing. I wonder if any of the other area businesses in Princeton played a role. For example, there is an exercise place in the same plaza as the post office. I have several cute, fit friends who go there daily. There are many classes in the mornings. Thinking that perhaps ACO stalked people from the plaza. Would love to know what the ATM camera showed. Also, the market where the victim supposedly went could be a popular stop for people after a workout.

 

[Evey]

Really terrific post. I see merit in both theories, as I said in my post. Agree that he probably wasn't there much before 12:45 -- at least not with his hood up -- for the reason you stated, but wanted to throw it out as a possibility.

I noticed you said "pretends to talk" on the phone -- agree that could be the case and I've not see that mentioned. He's stupid, but it's hard to believe anyone could be so stupid to make a call from what could soon be an abduction or rape scene.

Yes, Rocky's list was very nice -- thanks, Rocky.

Or he was speaking to the other accomplice(if he had one) who was following her slowly from a distance. My bet is he held the phone up anytime a car would be passsing so they wouldn't stop and believe the whole thing was to get her and he wouldn't want anyone trying to help but wanted an excuse to ask her for help and to be pulled off there if anyone stops to ask him.

 

[Evey]

I agree, stupid in many ways.
Let me add arrogant.
1) Parked his car along that road for as long as he did.
2) Made at least one phone call from the scene.
3) Drove around in the same SUV, knowing people were looking for it.
4) Volunteered to give the cops his DNA.
5) Made no attempt to hide the body.
Anyone else besides me think this guy did this so many times before that he was feeling rather confident he could get away with it and would never be caught? (maybe excluding the murder part, maybe not)
Anyone else besides me think he thought he was smarter than the Cops?

I agree fully and think he wasn't so cocky he didn't think he left DNA and think he pretends hes bad at English and hope someone from work makes it clear He speaks fine at work and .doesn't need a translator there.

Ugh must read the last pages before bed or it will bug me

 

[Evey]

Before I pass out, wouldn't his family all have to have fake names if his was? Unless only his first one was fake but I thin his work would have done a background check and I wonder if his brother has kids and if vanessa could have mentored or tutored one of their kids or been around them during volunteering. Or marathons.

Someone should try to see how many attacks or attempted attacks happened near his work his home and post offices. I hope his accomplice doesn't try to kill someone in their little list of girls to rape that they likely have because they've seen too many crime shows where the idiots try to get one of them out of jail by killing or raping and the lawyer showing it can't be him because a crime was made by the killer while his client was in jail. I assume he's a public defender unless they have cash stashed away somehow. I also wonder if they had mutual friends they could have met via because same age range and all. Maybe even briefly at a party or maybe his wife and her are friends

 

[Evey]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...rcotte-murder/Zru4kZx9nresNaFoWqJqjP/amp.html

Here's a timeline that was put out. Not sure if anyone has shared it. But figured I would before bed since I check my pet cases before passing out

 

[OldSteve]

They have his phone pinging off the tower, so at some point, he must have made a call.
I agree he couldn't have been there much before 12.45. I am still surprised a call wasn't made to the PD, or that they didn't ride by in that 1 1/2 hr time frame.

No need to make a call for phone to ping - as long as batter is in, it will be pinging...

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/police-hackers-phone-tracking/

 

[Cem75]

Before I pass out, wouldn't his family all have to have fake names if his was? Unless only his first one was fake but I thin his work would have done a background check and I wonder if his brother has kids and if vanessa could have mentored or tutored one of their kids or been around them during volunteering. Or marathons.

Someone should try to see how many attacks or attempted attacks happened near his work his home and post offices. I hope his accomplice doesn't try to kill someone in their little list of girls to rape that they likely have because they've seen too many crime shows where the idiots try to get one of them out of jail by killing or raping and the lawyer showing it can't be him because a crime was made by the killer while his client was in jail. I assume he's a public defender unless they have cash stashed away somehow. I also wonder if they had mutual friends they could have met via because same age range and all. Maybe even briefly at a party or maybe his wife and her are friends

If the hispanic publications are correct in saying he is actually Dominican, one could argue fake names were used when registering in PR. I would be curious to know what the process of "registering" is in PR. This may be one reason why it is taking time to charge him with murder. They can afford to get the existing charges incorrect, but not the murder charge. So I would venture to guess some Feds are involved vetting this dirtbag.

It creates a rather tricky challenge; ensuring those that allegedly hail from PR are in fact from PR and are thus American citizens. This particularly applies to potential terrorists, etc.

So net/net our ICE had better be sure PR has a rigid process of vetting/tracking their populous. This is particularly critical given the dire economy in PR, a problem our own government helped to create when the tax laws were changed.


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[Michigan]

I'm also wondering if they haven't charged him yet because they don't know what type of murder to charge him with. Maybe they need to investigate further ti understand whether the murder part was premeditated. Just a thought.

 

[Madeleine74]

No, it's first degree premeditated murder. Crushing someone's throat, strangulation is not a moment of passion type crime. It can take up to 3 minutes or more for someone to die that way. He knew he was killing her and he intended it. That meets the definition of premeditation.

All the worry about him not yet being charged is for naught. He *will* be charged, no doubt about it. This part of the justice system goes slowly, won't surprise me if it takes 18 months to 2 years to get the case to trial.

 

[Rocky1]

No, it's first degree premeditated murder. Crushing someone's throat, strangulation is not a moment of passion type crime. It can take up to 3 minutes or more for someone to die that way. He knew he was killing her and he intended it. That meets the definition of premeditation.

All the worry about him not yet being charged is for naught. He *will* be charged, no doubt about it. This part of the justice system goes slowly, won't surprise me if it takes 18 months to 2 years to get the case to trial.

I agree.
First degree/Felony Murder. No need to prove it was premeditated at all, if she died while a crime was, being committed, or an attempt of a crime was being committed. (Assault with attempt to rape) He could have stumbled and fell on her, killing her by accident, and it would still be Felony Murder.
I see the jury returning a verdict of Guilty, First degree Murder with Extreme Atrocity or Cruelty and/or Deliberately Premeditated Malice Aforethought.
I also see his Defense Attorney arguing that it was consensual sex, and VM had a kink of being choked, trying to get this reduced to Manslaughter(second degree murder) if he can't get the DNA thrown out, but he is going to have a tough time explaining her broken nose.

 

[junebug85]

I'm wondering if the discrepancy in his nationality has anything to do with the long running Puerto Rican/Dominican feud. These are two groups of people that typically do not like each other. So I'm wondering if there is a "Hey, he's not one of ours, a Puerto Rican wouldn't do that- he must be Dominican" prejudice at play here. Both cultures look down on each other a lot, historically. Just a thought.

 

[Evey]

If the hispanic publications are correct in saying he is actually Dominican, one could argue fake names were used when registering in PR. I would be curious to know what the process of "registering" is in PR. This may be one reason why it is taking time to charge him with murder. They can afford to get the existing charges incorrect, but not the murder charge. So I would venture to guess some Feds are involved vetting this dirtbag.

It creates a rather tricky challenge; ensuring those that allegedly hail from PR are in fact from PR and are thus American citizens. This particularly applies to potential terrorists, etc.

So net/net our ICE had better be sure PR has a rigid process of vetting/tracking their populous. This is particularly critical given the dire economy in PR, a problem our own government helped to create when the tax laws were changed.


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Oh I agree but the one thing making me think maybe it's not fake is the mom being a cop. Otherwise the whole family had to pay some good money to get fake ones for all their family that wouldn't show as fake if looked into for school or work.

My thought as far as the FBI being involved would be maybe they would if they believe they have a serial killer here(and I believe he is) and if they believe he's killed people in other states and back where he's from

 

[Evey]

No, it's first degree premeditated murder. Crushing someone's throat, strangulation is not a moment of passion type crime. It can take up to 3 minutes or more for someone to die that way. He knew he was killing her and he intended it. That meets the definition of premeditation.

All the worry about him not yet being charged is for naught. He *will* be charged, no doubt about it. This part of the justice system goes slowly, won't surprise me if it takes 18 months to 2 years to get the case to trial.

Yea it's for sure premeditated, I'm sure maybe he would like them to think it isn't if it would get him less time but I don't know if it would. To me it's clear he planned it he waited there and likely had stalked her in some form. If only just obsessing over her social media after seeing her a few times and then figuring out where she runs and her schedule. I almost think he spent months doing this or enough time to find her routine out. And my guess is it started because he saw her at the post office or cause he delivered a package or drove past her running or saw her somewhere else.

It's funny you have both jogger cases solved by the idiots giving DNA willingly. Probably both were cocky and didn't think they had his DNA. And in this one he's playing the doesn't speak English and didn't understand card and in the other the parents who at first denied their son having mental issues are now saying he has mental issues and didn't know what he was doing. And this one was planned and plotted and the other doesn't seem to be and was by someone who went to some sort of special needs behavioral school. Granted in that case he may be smarter than he plays it off and actually did plan it but doesn't want us knowing

 

[Evey]

I agree.
First degree/Felony Murder. No need to prove it was premeditated at all, if she died while a crime was, being committed, or an attempt of a crime was being committed. (Assault with attempt to rape) He could have stumbled and fell on her, killing her by accident, and it would still be Felony Murder.
I see the jury returning a verdict of Guilty, First degree Murder with Extreme Atrocity or Cruelty and/or Deliberately Premeditated Malice Aforethought.
I also see his Defense Attorney arguing that it was consensual sex, and VM had a kink of being choked, trying to get this reduced to Manslaughter(second degree murder) if he can't get the DNA thrown out, but he is going to have a tough time explaining her broken nose.

I think the lawyer will do that as well. And try to paint her as some kinky sex crazed lady who was having some secret affair with him in the woods and wanted to be choked and smokes and dropped flame on her and burned herself when she was being choked and accidentally killed during attempted sex. Attempted rape makes me think he tried and couldn't get it up or something but clearly planned to.

This brings me to a few questions, was her nose broke when he was trying to keep her quiet with his hand over her mouth? Or did he stomp her face.. cause I could see him being sadistic and stomping it and burning her and who knows what else. Cause he seems the type to hate women and see them as objects and be a misogynistic creep.

 

[Marie A]

I think the lawyer will do that as well. And try to paint her as some kinky sex crazed lady who was having some secret affair with him in the woods and wanted to be choked and smokes and dropped flame on her and burned herself when she was being choked and accidentally killed during attempted sex. Attempted rape makes me think he tried and couldn't get it up or something but clearly planned to.

This brings me to a few questions, was her nose broke when he was trying to keep her quiet with his hand over her mouth? Or did he stomp her face.. cause I could see him being sadistic and stomping it and burning her and who knows what else. Cause he seems the type to hate women and see them as objects and be a misogynistic creep.

I agree with most of this but I think "attempted rape" charges are either
1) because they have yet to file true rape charges
2) because they were unable to collect a proper rape kit due to possible condom use/ burned privates
nothing to do with possible "erectile disfunction"
This disgusting predator was either angered more OR excited more by her FIGHTING LIKE HELL. I have no doubt that he accomplished his rape mission. The big question is- was this his first murder because it was almost certainly NOT his first sexual assault.

 

[Madeleine74]

I agree with most of this but I think "attempted rape" charges are either
1) because they have yet to file true rape charges
2) because they were unable to collect a proper rape kit due to possible condom use/ burned privates
nothing to do with possible "erectile disfunction"
This disgusting predator was either angered more OR excited more by her FIGHTING LIKE HELL. I have no doubt that he accomplished his rape mission. The big question is- was this his first murder because it was almost certainly NOT his first sexual assault.

1. Not true
2. Possibly or there's no evidence of it.

They'll only charge what they believe they can prove in court to a jury of 12. Without evidence to prove a charge, they don't add the charge. Simple as that.