Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #1

[CARIIS]

Maybe I missed it previously, but I've read through this entire thread and this article is the first time I've seen it mentioned outright that his coat was in the bar's coat check (as opposed to with his cousin/group).

If this was the case, I cannot possibly see the bar not letting him back in at least to get his coat unless they had in fact kicked him out.

Also (this from momof4boys' snip):



BBM

He sent her a text to say that he was going OUT? Where was he then? I thought he was with his cousin when he decided to go out to smoke at 1:30 or whatever time, but maybe not?

I've been a little confused throughout, but now I am really confused.

My sense is that the text did not refernece going out for a smoke, only that they refused to let him back in.

This is just infereace on my part- but I got the image they were all at table and he either said I am gonna run for a smoke , or just stepped away knowing everyone knew he was going for a cig. She did explain that he had gone out to smoke on several occasions to smoke through the evening,

Your coat check hunch is good, Never thought of that
- they were young, in a group, would make sense not to go through the hassle or cost of coat check.

If I were alone I would check coat, but if with a group would not.

 

[ORNurse]

Louisiana still has drive thru daiquiri bars

 

[CARIIS]

I would guess he would go to a bus/subway station if there were one. If they all came in that way it would get him out of the cold and he's think he would see his group there shortly anyway. But you'd think he would message his cousin this. His phone could have run out of battery though.

Or die cause of temp. I cant imagine someone in that sitution actually turning it off himself . (maybe accident but doubtful he was22 operating cell phones for them is like walking !)

He was waiting to connect with people so manual turn off seems unlikly imo

 

[Timekeeper65]

Welcome Cape7.

Glad to have you here.

:welcome:

 

[CARIIS]

If I were Bell in Hand and my bartender/bouncer had denied him re-entry, it seems very unlikely I'd present LE and the family with a videotape showing he didn't attempt re-entry. It's no longer a he-said, he-said thing when you have videotape. The stills that were released are quite clear of him. I don't know where all this will end, and I would like to see the video they submitted showing no attempt at re-entry.

Had the Bell in Hand merely said um naah, we didn't deny him re-entry, that's one thing and would be questionable. To provide a video that apparently satisfied the family is another thing.

I am going with the notion that he was told before he left not to come back. That, for mne, just fits with standing across the streer, not wanting the bouncer to mess with him further.

The pic of him walking (as it relates to maybe trying to warm up) fits.

But the standing still pic feels more indicative "waiting" for them.. It would not be any warmerstanding across the street, but the notion that he headed over (Market could look open to someone not familiar with area), and he might have thought I could stand inside (warm) and still have aperfect view to see when they excited
club

There is however another (there are many huh) possibility, that cause of the "shape" of the bar mutliple exits- they might have come out the other one, start looking for him, while he standing trhere thinking they are coming out. BUT what if when they started looking for him and were not in view, and he noticed that the number of people leaving had already come to an end (club emoty) and thought they just went ahead and left. That kinda fits with the walking phone in pic,

I dont remebere, walking or standing, timestamp wise which pic is first ? That could be helful with this notion.

I guess they left, I an freezing , so I guess I need to start walking somewhere?

 

[Cape7]

Thanks!

Also wonder what their plan was for after bar? Assume he planned to stay over at cousin's house. Boston bar scene used to have late night pizza etc. Did he walk off to find food while waiting for them? Unlikely he would just ditch family who just took him out for bday even if he met aomeone...

 

[CARIIS]

I see what you're saying, unless he was on camera the whole time until he went down the street toward that subway entrance thing.

plus that fits in with our cocnern about mangement being in CVA mode. If we think about it, the family never said the club provided us with video of all exits.

If they have said we have examined all exit videos and .....for all we know they only released one . And why not release it as a video? becasue it may show something other than there side.

If , in this day and age , anyone was trying to convince anyone of something, and had video, why would one chose to only release a still.

We all would have far less quesions if we saw a 15 minute video of everything that occurred.

I cant imagine LE saying nah dont bother getting us the whole video, a pic will do, and or what would the reason for LE not to release in viideo mode. Cops have started they do not supsect any foul play - if it was LE that did not release video , while stating suspect no foul, sam ething applies.

A moving video would validate anyones version, but the real core truth here is video of all exits could clear much up.

In fact it could actually solve a lot - if we saw the cousins exiting from an exit different than the one diwrectly in sight of market that would help a lot . If I thought bar was empty, and I did not see my cosuins come out of what I think is the only exit I would have to take some action

 

[CARIIS]

I'm going to say this, and I really, really don't mean it as a criticism of the family. It's one of those sad mistakes. If my cousin were outside in 0 degree weather and snapchatted they won't let me back in, I would rise from my chair and be at the door in less than 15 seconds by the clock. These are people very, very familiar with the dangers of cold like Texans are very familiar with the dangers of heat. I don't know why it took so very long for them to settle up a bill, mill around, and finally get to the door at least 10 minutes after he said he was standing out with no coat in the zero degree weather.

This is something I'm sure they'll hurt about forever if he isn't somehow miraculously found alive and well.

I agree. Even if we go with (place busy, last call, might take some time for tab handling, I would run out and hand him his coat, or if in coat check would go up to the bouncer and be pretty obnoious with something like ok fine you wont let him back in, there is a line to get our coats, would you please just let him stand inside under your nose

. He is not dressed to stand there in -9 while we get our coats , settle our bill and if the guy was a jerk , while everyone else is dealing with tab coat, I would find another staff member and raise hell - you cant keep my cousin outside undessed in this cold.

Wind was (posted earlier_16 miles an hour that night- thats pretty horid to be stuck outside like that its not ok imo

 

[CARIIS]

Boston area resident and occasional Uber user here, chiming in (very late!) on the Uber angle. While Zach could have summoned a ride with Uber using just his phone, I personally doubt that happened. Uber is only available in some larger cities; living in Harvard, Zach would have no use for it. Taking Uber from Boston to Harvard would be crazy expensive. It's possible he downloaded the Uber app and set it up after he left the Bell, but I doubt that too. It's not trivial to do so, as you need to link a payment account to use it. Could be done of course, but IMHO not likely in the freezing cold after several drinks. So I think the Uber possibility is sadly unlikely...unless Zach was in the habit of coming into Boston for fun and staying at his cousin's place in Southie, then I could see it. Has anyone read an indication that he did something like this often?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The opposite dad made of point of stating he does not get the chance to go the city , so your post makes lots of sense. I did not know about the financail link up - so that is really unlikely. Buzzed, without a coat, he could have stuff memorized to enter, don tthin so!!

 

[CARIIS]

I think something like that is a possibility for sure. Or, if the bar has multiple entrances/exits (which seemingly it does), they misunderstood which one he was waiting by and left out the other one.

And I agree with you, I think him accidentally ending up in the water is nearly impossible in this case.

The pics that Car posted ----the water look really close to the club?

 

[CARIIS]

A few general comments, in no particular order:

There are parts of Boston where it's easier to fall in the water than it is to stay out of it, and because it's a harbor town, the general trend of many streets is toward the water, and many areas that are busy during the day are deserted at night.

The harborwalk is well lit but it can be slick, and those chains are no protection at all. They call your attention to the edge, but if you slip, you could go under. And it would be trivial to throw yourself over. Pee over? Well, do-able, but if he tried to do it that night, he would most likely have endangered his future progeny.

A while back, there was a discussion of how many people, mostly young men, have drowned around New England this year. The serial killer on the loose isn't a human gang, it's suicide, mostly by young people under pressure, and for some reason the water seems to be a favorite choice. There have been three or four that I know of in addition to the ones that have made the press.

Another killer that's making the rounds: heroin and other opiods. As well as the usual danger of overdose, many batches sold in the area have been contaminated. Several people a day were dying at the peak last fall.

Boston is generally a safe city to be out wandering around in at any hour, but incidents do happen. And I am guessing that by the time he left the Public Market, he would have been glad to accept a warm ride from Satan himself, even if he was fully sober.

From the beginning i found the walk to the water to pee kinda silly.If we look at the pics, it looks both shots look like noone is around, Its quiet in the shots, its minus 9 degrees.

I just think a drunk dude would think he would need to "Walk" in freezing cold to pee. A discreet turn around , unzip, done. But risking getting seperated to find a large urinal in freezing weather is IMO not something a dude will feel a "need" to do , to take care if I need to piss issue jmoop

 

[carbuff]

Trilogy is right, the blue appears to be a tarp. There is a place you can see the water but that's not it.

And if it is the water, it's farther than it looks. 8-9 blocks sounds about right. I haven't walked it in years.

CARIIS, I'll answer your other questions tomorrow. I need to consult maps and photos and...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katsrfun]

o/t , but drinking is an element here, and a dash of levity might be a good thing for a moment


Oh, yes you youngins--years ago DUI was nowhere where it is the last couple of decades. Liquor stores had drvie throughs , where you, slurred your order ,sitting in the drivers seat, empty cocktail in hand ,requesting another gallon of scotch (!) from your car!!

You then fumbled around for money, could not remember the amount owed .!!

There were bottle clubs, which opened at 2 in the morning. Alcohol could not be sold after two. So those clubs let you bring your own bottle in, ( the old adage "the bigger the better" is applicable here) took it , put your name on it, and sold you mixers, (often accompated by a request for very little mixer!) handed you your bottle to make your cocktail, and then took your bottle until your next round (average elapsed time before repeating 9 minutes!)

Trust me , parking lots from the bottle clubs, which usually closed around 8 in the morning, were quite a sight !!

99.98% of occupants at the bottle clubs HAD come from other bars that closed on them!!

In hindsight, they had the "B" wrong!! they ought to have been called "Blackout Clubs".

We drove with cocktails in hand and cooler in the backseat. I recall driving covering one eye in an effort to see better. Oh yes, yesteryear was far different.

If you did get pulled over, despite the fact that you smelled as if you were really fond of drinking rubbing alchol, you were handed your "failure to use turn signal" ticket, and after (took some time!) trying to locate the signuture line on the ticket ----off the cop went!

In the same vein , it occurred to me that our "juice" bars were different than yours, and some might find "bottle clubs" a delusion on my part,, or result in your pondering if I had I emptied a 1.5 liter while posting this!!
From Wiki:

Some business establishments allow patrons to bring their own bottle, sometimes subject to fees or membership conditions, or because the establishment itself does not have license to sell alcohol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYOB

Funny , I thought folks are not gonna be capable of beleiving drive thro liquor stores, or go back to the notion that i had possibly emptied a 1.5 liter while posting. !!

Another note on this, I lived in Florida when I first became drinking age (at that time it was l8), remember that? I don't know if it was like this everywhere, I know it wasn't in New York, where I came from. But, the bars would give you to-go glasses at last call, or if you hadn't finished your drink at that time, they would pour it into a to-go glass. Also, there were drive through liquor stores, where you could pull up in the car, and just order a mixed drink, which they gave to you in a glass to drive away with. Things have sure changed in what doesn't seem that long ago. I know this is OT, but wanted to mention it in conjunction with some other posts. Thanks everyone, Katt.

 

[Vail]

I feel like speculation is getting really wild here. Let's try to stick to the facts and sleuth leads that can help determine search areas.

We know he arrived there by public transit.
We know he was at the Bell in Hand with people he knew well.
We know he left the bar alone.
We know he was in communication with his cousin between 1:20 and 1:50AM
We know he wasn't answering his phone by 2am.
We know he was last seen in front of the public market on CCTV (according to most current MSM info)
We know other people were on the street or near him at that time.
We know his cousin accessed his Facebook after he disappeared.
We know the bar is .5 mile from the nearest water, the harborwalk, across a high traffic area. This is a lit area that sits above the waterline, filled with boats and is lined with chains.


LE stated they searched the harbor and river as a matter of course, not because of leads.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...harvard-man/IyN8vLWFejiQeuT7irMfJO/story.html

While authorities have no evidence that Marr drowned, searching nearby waterways is a decision that reflects recent cases and the city’s geography.

We do not know if he has a drug addiction.
We do not know if he was despondent, suicidal or otherwise mentally impaired.
We do not know his level of intoxication.
We do not know if his cousin is telling the truth.
We do not know if there is evidence Zach ever left the area of the bar on foot.
We do not know if his phone was powered off, or died.
We do not know if LE has obtained ping location data or what it indicates.
We don't know what kind of relationships Zach may have with people who attend any of the nearby universities or may live in the direct area (though he has FB friends from the general area)

Hypothermia
It takes quite awhile to actually die of hypothermia just being in cold weather (unless he was wet or naked), and before you die your body shuts down to where you're not moving. He would have been found by someone by now IMO. Terminal burrowing, while interesting, only happens in a very small number of cases. If this was his fate, he will be found quite far away IMO.
http://www.livescience.com/6008-person-freeze-death.html

 

[pappa rob]

I feel like speculation is getting really wild here. Let's try to stick to the facts and sleuth leads that can help determine search areas.

We know he arrived there by public transit.
We know he was at the Bell in Hand with people he knew well.
We know he left the bar alone.
We know he was in communication with his cousin between 1:20 and 1:50AM
We know he wasn't answering his phone by 2am.
We know he was last seen in front of the public market on CCTV (according to most current MSM info)
We know other people were on the street or near him at that time.
We know his cousin accessed his Facebook after he disappeared.
We know the bar is .5 mile from the nearest water, the harborwalk, across a high traffic area. This is a lit area that sits above the waterline, filled with boats and is lined with chains.


LE stated they searched the harbor and river as a matter of course, not because of leads.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...harvard-man/IyN8vLWFejiQeuT7irMfJO/story.html



We do not know if he has a drug addiction.
We do not know if he was despondent, suicidal or otherwise mentally impaired.
We do not know his level of intoxication.
We do not know if his cousin is telling the truth.
We do not know if there is evidence Zach ever left the area of the bar on foot.
We do not know if his phone was powered off, or died.
We do not know if LE has obtained ping location data or what it indicates.
We don't know what kind of relationships Zach may have with people who attend any of the nearby universities or may live in the direct area (though he has FB friends from the general area)

Hypothermia
It takes quite awhile to actually die of hypothermia just being in cold weather (unless he was wet or naked), and before you die your body shuts down to where you're not moving. He would have been found by someone by now IMO. Terminal burrowing, while interesting, only happens in a very small number of cases. If this was his fate, he will be found quite far away IMO.
http://www.livescience.com/6008-person-freeze-death.html

RBBM Unless he was drinking, it would cut down on the time it takes to expire of hypothermia, and it would cut down the amount of travel distance also..

 

[KYPastTracker]

This map from Google shows the closest water to the Tavern (bottom right). Seems kind of far to me on a cold winters night.

 

[Eileen730]

We know he was in communication with his cousin between 1:20 and 1:50AM
We know he wasn't answering his phone by 2am.



I think if they find where the pings on his phone were at this time he will be found in this radius.

 

[Vail]

We know he was in communication with his cousin between 1:20 and 1:50AM
We know he wasn't answering his phone by 2am.



I think if they find where the pings on his phone were at this time he will be found in this radius.

I agree, that is really what we are waiting on now

 

[CARIIS]

anyone know what buttons you click on to start a thread. I wanna try to do a poll on Zach and see where people stand in terms of what folks think happened happened, but cant find a botton!

 

[Eileen730]

Have they checked cars?
Are there any cars left on the streets for a long time.
If he was really cold he would try to get in one

Were any cars TOWED?