Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 13

[CaliKid]

I posted early then had to leave and go in for test to find out if I had cancer.. As calous as this sounds this board has given me the distraction I have needed in a very difficult personal time. All the way to the doctor's this morning for test instead of thinking about me I was rambeling like a crazy woman to my husband about the latest developments with the McCann's.
I just found out I am cancer free and I get back and am 4 pages behind! See where my mind is?

Sorry it took me so long to respond to you, Jdee, but just now do I have enough time to sit down and read the major Madeleine thread.

I wanted to say, how could you possibly post with us all summer and not let us know what you were going through? Good heavens, woman, we're here for you.

I am so glad, though, that you're okay. Hurrah for Jdee!

 

[Shazza]

Sorry it took me so long to respond to you, Jdee, but just now do I have enough time to sit down and read the major Madeleine thread.

I wanted to say, how could you possibly post with us all summer and not let us know what you were going through? Good heavens, woman, we're here for you.

I am so glad, though, that you're okay. Hurrah for Jdee!

I too am glad you are okay Jdee, sorry it took so long for me respond. Have no excuse but to say that I was totally into all the new news on Madelaine. You too do a great job here sleuthing and I thank you.

 

[Anita Richman]

I haven't had the heart to post on any of the Madeleine pages because my own little princess is so close in age.

With the news of the parents being named as suspects, if it is found to be true, I hope all of the celebrities who lent their names and $$$$ for her return, decide to come together and forge a global effort for lost and vulnerable children.

 

[delilah]

I have been following this case although not as closely as others here.

There are several things that have seemed not quite right in this case from the beginning. However, I also think some of the theories doing the rounds have been unhelpful: innocent until proven guilty, etc etc.

The questions that have bugged me so far are:

if Madeleine was killed by one of the parents in the apartment that night, how/where could they have concealed the body? Is there a sufficient absence in the time line between the last independent sighting of M (around 1830?) and her being declared missing? If her body was concealed somewhere close by, surely it would have decomposed quickly etc. Is the alleged trace in the hire car indicative of the body being moved in it (and we still seem unsure of when it was hired - 3 or 25 days after 3 May?) or merely that traces of DNA/blood/cadaver smell might have been transferred on other items? By this stage there was such a media furore that surely it would have been nigh on impossible for one of them to slip away and dispose of a body? Has a cadaver smell been detected in other apartments (as I think I read in one post)?

When exactly were the authorities notified of her disappearance? There's the elderly woman in the apartment above offering to call but being told by KM that had already been done, but other sources suggesting it wasn't until 40 mins after that that a call was made. Plenty of scope for confusion as to who called who, when, not necessarily suspicious, given we do not know all the facts.

Was the blood in the apartment definitely not Madeleine's as was reported some time ago in the press? Sniffer dogs can detect blood scents present seven years previously, and we are talking about minute traces, so plenty of scope for their detecting unrelated scents.

Was a cadaver scent definitely picked up in the apartment? Again, reported in the press but not as far as I know confirmed by official sources (and yes I know we have Portuguese law to contend with ref releasing information on the case)

Cadaver scent on CuddleCat. Maybe this is third hand and caused by translation problems but did KM really claim she took the toy to work with her before the holiday to explain the scent? That would seem bizarre to say the least.

Cuddlecat was relegated to the back of the rucksack prior to KM's latest questioning, and I don't recall seeing it when she left. Has it been seized as evidence now? (I am frankly fed up of seeing the wretched thing).

KM's assumption that 'they've taken her' always struck me as odd, such a leap to conclusion after a short period of time, particularly given the report (has this been confirmed?) that M went missing for thirty mins a few nights earlier and was subsequently found outside the apartment. Do we know what the time line was exactly between her returning to the apartment and then making this claim at the tapas bar?


A lot has been said about the McCanns' behaviour prior to and since the disappearance. Leaving their kids alone might be considered reckless but it does not make them guilty. Not appearing to be a particularly likeable couple does not make them guilty. Launching what in my opinion seems a rather odd publicity campaign (the flying round the world, audience with the Pope etc etc) doesn't mean they are guilty. Not breaking down into floods of tears at every opportunity does not mean they are guilty. I don't believe there's a right or wrong way to show grief. People are different. That said, their behaviour does strike me as odd, but I'll leave it at that. I like to stick to the facts.

Just heard on News24 that the McCanns plan to stay in Portugal for the time being.

 

[CaliKid]

Maybe y'all should ask WHO RENTED THE CAR BEFORE THE PARENTS?

Apparently, the car was being rented by one of the McCanns' friends when Madeleine went missing. I don't know what the coincidence would be that the parents would end up with the same car- maybe they liked it or it's a small rental company.

 

[mrsmousemat]

I literally got cold chills reading that.

Medium - supposedly reporting what M says...

So did I. It's all in an American accent and not a British one.

 

[CaliKid]

Wonder what the Pope thinks about this.

The Pope has apparently removed the link to Madeleine from his website. I imagine he feels, as has been stated here, duped.

 

[CaliKid]

The last picture taken of Madeleine was at 2.30. pm
Was she seen alive in public any time after that?
When exactly did the McCanns arrive at the tapas bar?

If they have something to do with Madeleine's death, they must have hidden or disposed of the body between the time Maddie was last seen alive in public and their arrival at the bar.
But how could they possibly have done that, in broad daylight in a summer resort brimming with people? And then they sat down at the tapas bar with their friends, pulling off their deceptive scheme, playing the happy and carefree couple? All this sounds so incredible - I almost felt physically sick when hearing that the mother has been declared a suspect.

It is being questioned whether the "last picture of Madeleine" was really taken on May 3. A theory at the Mirror Forums suggests that the McCanns reset the date on their camera or photoshopped it in. At this point, nobody really knows when the last time she was seen by someone besides her parents.

 

[jacobean]

Medium - supposedly reporting what M says...

So did I. It's all in an American accent and not a British one.

glad i read on before posting, i noticed this too....

 

[CaliKid]

http://jn.sapo.pt/2007/09/08/primeiro_plano/pais_recusam_falar_vestigios_carro.html

Parents refuse to talk about residues in car

The parents of Madeleine McCann were yesterday formally constituted arguidos from the moment they refused to talk about the residues that were collected by the Policia Judiciaria's investigation, which point at the death and the hiding of the cadaver of their daughter, who is missing since May 3, from the Ocean Club, at Praia da Luz, Lagos.

Separately interrogated for hours (Kate, 15 hours and Gerry, eight), they had to pass from witnesses into arguidos when questions were asked about the biological residues that were found in the trunk of a car that was hired by the couple, and which has strong probabilities of belonging to Maddie, as JN reported yesterday. Kate invoked her right to remain silent in order not to answer any more questions as arguida. She would have still justified the cadaver odors on her clothes, which were detected by an English dog, with the fact that she is a doctor and was in contact with dead bodies before going on holidays. Gerry, even as an arguido from 6.30 p.m. onwards, agreed to give further clarification. The father's questioning ended close to midnight.

Both arguidos were subject to a term of identity and residence - an automatic coercion measure - but, according to information that was collected by JN, they will be interrogated next week by the Public Ministery, who may decide to present them to a criminal instruction judge, in order to apply more serious coercion measures.

The process strategy of the McCann couple intrigued the investigators, although their procedure was legitimate. The issue is an apparent contradiction with the public statements of the couple who stated they intended to "cooperate" with the investigation.

As far as JN could discover, the investigation is now focused on clues for the crime of hiding a corpse, which was preceded by an episode that is still not clarified, but which points to the death of the girl as a consequence of an accident or a neglect situation.There is no evidence pointing to an intentional crime.

After two days of intense questioning on Kate and Gerry, the investigators will advance with more diligences next week. As JN could discover, some of the couple's friends, who spent their holidays at Praia da Luz, may be called back to the Algarve, but it has not been excluded that some policemen may go to England in order to perform interrogations.

 

[poco]

The Portuguese law

Under Portuguese law the legal status of arguido permits the police to treat someone as a formal suspect, placing under an obligation to answer specific questions. There is no equivalent in English law but it could be said to be the preliminary stage before arrest when someone is still "helping police with their inquiries".

An arguido, or arguida if the suspect is a woman, has the right to remain silent and the right to be represented by a lawyer. Anyone who is subject to a police investigation can ask for arguido status which in Portugal is considered a common course of action and does not denote guilt. It also means that the police can ask a judge to place restrictions on the suspect's movement and require them to surrender their passport or reside at a fixed address. Where there is a real concern that an arguido might abscond the judge can ask for a substantial surety. But where there is little risk of the suspect fleeing the country the police can ask the suspect to sign a residence and identity contract.

If the police believe they have sufficient evidence to support a criminal case then the suspect will be arrested. Criminal charges normally follow swiftly.


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2942011.ece

 

[mjak]

I have been following this case although not as closely as others here


A lot has been said about the McCanns' behaviour prior to and since the disappearance. Leaving their kids alone might be considered reckless but it does not make them guilty. Not appearing to be a particularly likeable couple does not make them guilty. Launching what in my opinion seems a rather odd publicity campaign (the flying round the world, audience with the Pope etc etc) doesn't mean they are guilty. Not breaking down into floods of tears at every opportunity does not mean they are guilty. I don't believe there's a right or wrong way to show grief. People are different. That said, their behaviour does strike me as odd, but I'll leave it at that. I like to stick to the facts.

Just heard on News24 that the McCanns plan to stay in Portugal for the time being.

Excellent post. Lots of good stuff to think about. I don't have answers but do agree wtih a lot of your thoughts . Your last paragraph which I have quoted expesses much of what I have thought. The parents behaviors don't make sense to me. They are weired to me . However, this does not make them guilty of a crime. For me it did make them not classifable as innocent for several weeks now. Thanks for your input.

mjak

 

[SewingDeb]

I don't think they have a choice about staying in Portugal now, do they?

BBC is reporting that PJ has 10 days to charge them.

 

[lizziedripping]

I have been watching the news all morning and a few of the McCanns family members have been talking. One of them said that the Police are trying to frame the McCanns by planting Maddies blood in the rented car.

My question is........ IF this was the case, then where did the police get the blood from in the first place. If the blood in the apartment was Maddies then there would be no need to 'plant' any in the car, surely the blood in the apartment would be enough evidence?

Also a Portugese lawyer was saying that at this stage the McCanns can leave Portugal for a maximum of 5 days but they have to state where they are going and exactly where they will be staying.

 

[SewingDeb]

Good question Lizzie! Madeleine was gone so they could not take her blood or body fluids to plant anywhere.

Thanks for the info from the Portuguese lawyer. So they can leave but with conditions.

 

[CaliKid]

Morag posted a link in the Media Links Only thread, but it's in Portuguese. Here is a rough translation. If anyone speaks Portuguese, you're welcome to repost this.

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/07/sociedade/escutas_e_mails_decisivos_investigac.html[/QUOTE]

Phone calls and e-mails decisive in the inquiry of the PJ

By the first time since Madeleine McCann disappeared, in the night of 3 of May, in the Beach of the Light, nearby Lakes, the mother of the British infant yesterday was inquired in the Department of Criminal Inquiry (DIC) of Portimão of the Judicial Police (PJ) in the presence of a lawyer. To the hour of the fastener of this edition, by the 23.00, Kate McCann still was being submitted to a long questioning as the witness in the trial. But it would be able to still it come to be constituted arguida in case of. His husband, Gerry, should be heard today by the authorities.

When the inquiry was interrupted for has dinner, nearby the 22.00, the lawyer of Kate McCann guarantee that the mother of Maddie was being heard like witness in case of.

Of remainder, in agreement hurried the DN, the investingation involving Kate were for advance there is around a month. The decisive push was the arrival this week of the results of the tests efectuados in England to the vestiges found in the room where Maddie disappeared. The police detaches also the vestiges detected in the vehicle of the couple, namely the smell to the corpse of the daughter. But to main line of police inquiry aims for the listenings telefónicas and and-mails changes by the McCann and his friends English however returned to the United Kingdom.

Today, it will be the time of his husband, Gerry, to be heard by the police, that did question of inquire the couple separately and in different days. This is the Wednesday time that the McCann are inquired by the Judicial one, what happens a day after the PJ to have received the first results of the exams efectuados by a laborátório English relative to the samples of blood detected in the apartment of the The Ocean Club, of where disappeared Maddie, as well like vestiges of hair and others not alone fabrics collected in that dwelling, but also In the which the dogs pisteiros British that were in the Algarve detected smell to corpse.

After a morning apparently tranquila, during the which the parents of Maddie prayed in the church of You of the Light with the Anglican priest Haynes Hubbard, the couple left of her house a short while before of the 13.30, accompanied by the her advisor. The car driven by Gerry arrived to Portimão half-hour afterwards, having Kate McCann, holding the already famous one peluche that belonged to Maddie, entered in the installations of the DIC to the 14.00, after said good-bye with a kiss of his husband.

In the PJ, Kate already be awaited there is some time by his Portuguese lawyer, Carlos I Paint of Opened, that outside contacted by colleagues English in the past week, in order to move a judicial action against the weekly Such which, that reported that to PJ believes that the couple McCann killed the daughter with a dose of soothing.

New police diligence can come it elapse in England, by means of the news supply collected. The aim of those diligence will be able to be a British doctor that was found in the night of 3 of May, with the McCann, in the height in that Madeleine disappeared. Last night, and by the first time, the British press referred the suspicion felt by the McCann of will become suspicion in case of.

 

[mjak]

I have been watching the news all morning and a few of the McCanns family members have been talking. One of them said that the Police are trying to frame the McCanns by planting Maddies blood in the rented car.

My question is........ IF this was the case, then where did the police get the blood from in the first place. If the blood in the apartment was Maddies then there would be no need to 'plant' any in the car, surely the blood in the apartment would be enough evidence?

Also a Portugese lawyer was saying that at this stage the McCanns can leave Portugal for a maximum of 5 days but they have to state where they are going and exactly where they will be staying.

If the police were trying to frame the parents I think they could do better then plant evidence in a car that was not in the parents possesion to over 20 days after Maddie dissapeared.

mjak

 

[SewingDeb]

I certainly hope so mjak.

 

[lizziedripping]

If the police were trying to frame the parents I think they could do better then plant evidence in a car that was not in the parents possesion to over 20 days after Maddie dissapeared.
mjak

I agree with you. Also, I think I am right in saying the McCanns are not allowed to give public interviews now, but can speak to their friends and family, and that's how it is being relayed to the media at the moment.
In that case, we don't even really know for sure if Kate was given a plea bargain, could she not just be saying this? We only know what Kate and Gerry are telling their friends to relay to the media.

 

[mjak]

I agree with you. Also, I think I am right in saying the McCanns are not allowed to give public interviews now, but can speak to their friends and family, and that's how it is being relayed to the media at the moment.
In that case, we don't even really know for sure if Kate was given a plea bargain, could she not just be saying this? We only know what Kate and Gerry are telling their friends to relay to the media.

Iregardless if the freinds and family are really saying something so silly as the police planted evidence in a car not in the parents possession to over 20 days after Maddie dissapeared they are only making the parents look more and more guilty. If this is the best explanation they have to offer to defend the parents it is not belivable and contributes to making the parents look more guilty. Whether this explanation is directly from the parents or made up by the friends and family is says A LOT because of the need for the public to accept that the PLE are morons for it to be plausable. It is a lot easy for the public to just accept that the explanation is false and we all know the first reason we think of people giving false informaion....

mjak