Thank you, Jeana, for sharing that with us. I just didn't see how it could be possible, but not having intimate and personal experience with a missing loved one, I couldn't put that out there as fact. Blessings!
That is very well said!
Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 10
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Thank you, Jeana, for sharing that with us. I just didn't see how it could be possible, but not having intimate and personal experience with a missing loved one, I couldn't put that out there as fact. Blessings!
That is very well said!
Texana
Overreaching
Exactly! It's a contemptuous smirk at people who are actually physically looking for his own daughter!
http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/2007/08/once-twice-three-times-team-mccann.html
This is a link for Aussie Mike's latest blog, and he makes a good point about people who offered help in finding Madeleine to the McCanns which was ignored. After the blog entry is a list of comments.
Anonymous posted the following comment on 8/18 at 11:48 pm. It talks about how the McCanns might have accidentally overdosed Madeleine and tried to set it up for someone else to find her. But the person who left the Tapas before Kate, Mathew Oldfield, didn't actually check on the children, he just listened at the door. That's why KM made so many mistakes that we are questioning. The bolding is mine.
One whole curious aspect of the case, is Kate's actions on the night. She did several things that seemed odd at the time. One of them was she came running back into the restaurant screaming "They've taken her!"
This leads us to ask, who is 'they' and why did she assume Madeleine was abducted instead of wandered off which would be the reasonable conclusion of most people. She also LEFT the twins by themselves while she ran back to the restaurant. Now if you were sure an abductor had just snatched your child, would you leave your two remaining children behind in the same spot where an abductor was possibly lurking about? Nope. Me neither. But Kate did.
So why did Kate do these strange things?
And in particular, if Gerry and Kate were involved, then why did she make these kinds of mistakes when this should have been sorted well beforehand when they worked out their plan for how they were going to explain that their daughter was suddenly missing (ie 'the abduction').
Well what if Kate wasn't supposed to 'discover' Madeleine missing? What if it was supposed to be another member of the group who didnt do his job properly and actually check on the kids thus forcing Kate to have to be the one to 'discover' the missing child.
Lets back up a few hours to the start of the evening. The cadaver dog had detected a corpse had been in the apartment, this means the corpse had to have lain their for a couple of hours. The last reported sighting of Madeleine seems to be anywhere around 5:30pm to 6:30pm depending on which reports you read. Lets say she died of an accidental overdose around 7pm. Gerry and Kate panic, not knowing what to do. They contact another couple in the group for help, lets call them J and R. R agrees to help dispose of the body. Gerry and Kate go the restaurant as previously planned so nothing seems out of place. At 9:05pm Gerry goes to check on Madeleine. Soon after J also leaves the table. R at this point was already away from the table. In fact according to several witnesses, R had been away from the table for most of the night, giving him the time to dispose of the body. Shortly after Gerry does his check, R assists in his part of the plan, possibly using the blue jeep that the group had hired. J is already pre-prepared with her 'mystery man' story for later on.
Now here's where it gets interesting. Gerry has done his check at 9:05pm. J then did her checks around 9:15pm to 9:20pm, remembering that J is an insider. But now its Matthew Oldfields turn to check, a little after 9:30pm, closer to 9:45pm according to some witnesses. Matthew Oldfield is NOT part of the plan. However when he does his checks HE is the one supposed to discover that Madeleine is missing. But there is a problem. Matthew doesn't do his job properly and comes back to the table saying that everything's fine. Matthew gave 2 statements that night. In the first it is inconclusive if he even checked in the apartment at all but instead just listened for any crying etc. In his second statement he said that he looked into the room and 'believed' he saw Madeleine sound asleep. So in both statements that he makes not once does he conclusively say 'I saw Madeleine when I did my checks'. Thats because he never did, but didn't want to get in trouble for not having checked properly.
But this causes a problem. It's now Kate's turn to check on the children and by this point, Madeleine should already have been discovered missing, while Gerry and Kate were sitting at the bar with an independent witness (the aerobics instructor that Gerry had conveniently called over). With the plan in disarray, Kate goes over to the apartment, 'discovers' Madeleine missing and runs back screaming to the restaurant 'They've taken Madeleine' (because the plan had already been that an 'abductor' had taken Madeleine) and in her haste to get back to the restaurant she forgot about the fact that if she had really been concerned about an abductor she would immediately have taken her twins with her. But of course she hadn't factored this in, because this scenario was never supposed to have happened. She was supposed to have been back in the restaurant when Madeleine's disappearance was discovered.
I've always wondered 'if' they have something to do with Madeleine's disappearance, why Kate seemed to have made a hash of her actions at the time Madeleine had disappeared. I now wonder if it's because the last part of the plan, for someone else to discover Madeleine missing, didn't come off as planned, so suddenly she found herself having to carry out the 'discovery' herself and in having to make everything up on the spot, she didn't think everything through enough.
This is a link for Aussie Mike's latest blog, and he makes a good point about people who offered help in finding Madeleine to the McCanns which was ignored. After the blog entry is a list of comments.
Anonymous posted the following comment on 8/18 at 11:48 pm. It talks about how the McCanns might have accidentally overdosed Madeleine and tried to set it up for someone else to find her. But the person who left the Tapas before Kate, Mathew Oldfield, didn't actually check on the children, he just listened at the door. That's why KM made so many mistakes that we are questioning. The bolding is mine.
One whole curious aspect of the case, is Kate's actions on the night. She did several things that seemed odd at the time. One of them was she came running back into the restaurant screaming "They've taken her!"
This leads us to ask, who is 'they' and why did she assume Madeleine was abducted instead of wandered off which would be the reasonable conclusion of most people. She also LEFT the twins by themselves while she ran back to the restaurant. Now if you were sure an abductor had just snatched your child, would you leave your two remaining children behind in the same spot where an abductor was possibly lurking about? Nope. Me neither. But Kate did.
So why did Kate do these strange things?
And in particular, if Gerry and Kate were involved, then why did she make these kinds of mistakes when this should have been sorted well beforehand when they worked out their plan for how they were going to explain that their daughter was suddenly missing (ie 'the abduction').
Well what if Kate wasn't supposed to 'discover' Madeleine missing? What if it was supposed to be another member of the group who didnt do his job properly and actually check on the kids thus forcing Kate to have to be the one to 'discover' the missing child.
Lets back up a few hours to the start of the evening. The cadaver dog had detected a corpse had been in the apartment, this means the corpse had to have lain their for a couple of hours. The last reported sighting of Madeleine seems to be anywhere around 5:30pm to 6:30pm depending on which reports you read. Lets say she died of an accidental overdose around 7pm. Gerry and Kate panic, not knowing what to do. They contact another couple in the group for help, lets call them J and R. R agrees to help dispose of the body. Gerry and Kate go the restaurant as previously planned so nothing seems out of place. At 9:05pm Gerry goes to check on Madeleine. Soon after J also leaves the table. R at this point was already away from the table. In fact according to several witnesses, R had been away from the table for most of the night, giving him the time to dispose of the body. Shortly after Gerry does his check, R assists in his part of the plan, possibly using the blue jeep that the group had hired. J is already pre-prepared with her 'mystery man' story for later on.
Now here's where it gets interesting. Gerry has done his check at 9:05pm. J then did her checks around 9:15pm to 9:20pm, remembering that J is an insider. But now its Matthew Oldfields turn to check, a little after 9:30pm, closer to 9:45pm according to some witnesses. Matthew Oldfield is NOT part of the plan. However when he does his checks HE is the one supposed to discover that Madeleine is missing. But there is a problem. Matthew doesn't do his job properly and comes back to the table saying that everything's fine. Matthew gave 2 statements that night. In the first it is inconclusive if he even checked in the apartment at all but instead just listened for any crying etc. In his second statement he said that he looked into the room and 'believed' he saw Madeleine sound asleep. So in both statements that he makes not once does he conclusively say 'I saw Madeleine when I did my checks'. Thats because he never did, but didn't want to get in trouble for not having checked properly.
But this causes a problem. It's now Kate's turn to check on the children and by this point, Madeleine should already have been discovered missing, while Gerry and Kate were sitting at the bar with an independent witness (the aerobics instructor that Gerry had conveniently called over). With the plan in disarray, Kate goes over to the apartment, 'discovers' Madeleine missing and runs back screaming to the restaurant 'They've taken Madeleine' (because the plan had already been that an 'abductor' had taken Madeleine) and in her haste to get back to the restaurant she forgot about the fact that if she had really been concerned about an abductor she would immediately have taken her twins with her. But of course she hadn't factored this in, because this scenario was never supposed to have happened. She was supposed to have been back in the restaurant when Madeleine's disappearance was discovered.
I've always wondered 'if' they have something to do with Madeleine's disappearance, why Kate seemed to have made a hash of her actions at the time Madeleine had disappeared. I now wonder if it's because the last part of the plan, for someone else to discover Madeleine missing, didn't come off as planned, so suddenly she found herself having to carry out the 'discovery' herself and in having to make everything up on the spot, she didn't think everything through enough.
Doctors are often (but not always) a different breed than most of us and thus in some cases will seem to be almost psychopathic in their seeming ability to not allow emotions to impair their current speaking or other current task. I have seen this first hand including in life or death situations. I think people are allowing their desire for these people to be guilty to color their judgement. You all best hope these parents did what you all think they did or some of you may be headed for a breakdown of some sort. I don't think some can even imagine a world where the parents are innocent of this crime. As for me, I will wait and see. If they did it they should get whats coming to them and if not then we still need to see the little girl found and at this point I am not sure even that will happen.
I speak for myself, but I probably speak for many here. I would so love to be wrong and have the PJ tomorrow announce they've unearthed a baby-selling ring and located Madeleine. We WANT the McCanns to be innocent. We WANT this baby alive and returned to her family. I'd be turning handsprings for this to be true.
To even comprehend a situation in which her parents murdered her or accidentally killed Madeleine and covered up their crime is reprehensible. Loving parents often make mistakes, but part of being an adult is owning up to what you did, not sweeping it under the rug and creating lie upon lie to cover yourself. IMO, this is what the McCanns have done.
We are Websleuths. We look at evidence, ponder strange behavior and rely upon instinct. My instinct says the parents' behavior is all wrong.
To even comprehend a situation in which her parents murdered her or accidentally killed Madeleine and covered up their crime is reprehensible. Loving parents often make mistakes, but part of being an adult is owning up to what you did, not sweeping it under the rug and creating lie upon lie to cover yourself. IMO, this is what the McCanns have done.
We are Websleuths. We look at evidence, ponder strange behavior and rely upon instinct. My instinct says the parents' behavior is all wrong.
sleuthin4fun
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As an RN I can tell you that Dr. and Nurses both have an ability to seperate themselves from certain situations and can be very unemotional in a crisis. I see this especially with those who work in high stress medical areas ER, OB, Cardiac ect. I worked OB for 10 years and as you know it is not always as glamorous as people think. Babies are born with severe deformaties, babies die, mothers can become very ill and even die it is part of the job. I know that sounds cold but, it was my reality. I tend to be exteremly emotional. In order for me to function in that enviorment during a crisis I had to turn that off. Trust me though I cried a bucket of tears in the utility room and in my car. I say this only because I believe that the McCanns as well probably have developed an ability to shut down all emotion. When you have the ability to do that it doesn't hurt as bad. Right or wrong it is a defense mechanism. I believe that they could do this regardless of the circumstances surrounding Maddies disappearance and their involvement or lack of involvement.
cali, that was a really great post from Aussie Mike's blog. I'm wavering on the scenario though because I don't think they were checking like they said they were that night. Not only do we have the witnesses at the bar that said no one left, but we also now know that two nights before the child was crying for 1 hour and 45 minutes before someone came back. Why didn't they do the every 30 minutes check that night too??
But then again, maybe it does fit, because if they were checking like they said on the night Maddie "disappeared" (every 30 minutes), it was certainly different than their previous routine. And one has to ask Why?
I'll never get over the twins sleeping through all of this, two hours after the discovery of Maddie being gone and over 20 people in that room and still it was the police whom carried them out - still asleep. That is UNBELIEVABLE.
But then again, maybe it does fit, because if they were checking like they said on the night Maddie "disappeared" (every 30 minutes), it was certainly different than their previous routine. And one has to ask Why?
I'll never get over the twins sleeping through all of this, two hours after the discovery of Maddie being gone and over 20 people in that room and still it was the police whom carried them out - still asleep. That is UNBELIEVABLE.
That has to be a mistake.....doesn't it? That's a lot of wine to drink in a short amt of time.
This is a very interesting theory calikid, and one I think that could have happened, hope the LE have looked into this also, as they must know the timelines given for checking on the children has too many inconsistencies given by the McCanns and their friends. Great sleuthing.
i understand what you are saying. i was the mom giving birth to 1 of those babies you spoke of. i remember how the doctors and nurses behaved. some seemed nice and some seemed cold but the all did their job. they spoke in soft tones and told me they were sorry for my loss and still did their jobs. how many of you could watch a mother cry over her dead child and not shed a tear? most people cry at that when it is in a movie and they know it is not real. the doctors and nurses did not even look as they might tear up. somehow they turned off their emotions and just did their job. thank god they did. i needed doctors who would make sure i could still have kids later despite the fact i said i did not care. i needed nurses that made sure i stayed health during labor and got pictures of my child. i understand that doctors must cut themselves off to do their jobs. how do you cut yourself off from you own child? doctors are not robots. why is a doctor not supposed to operate on their own child? maybe i would buy that a rare doctor out there can cut themselves off in a case like this.... but 2 doctors who are married and can cut themselves off from a missing and possibly dead child?in the case of a job ok. in the case of their own child? i just dont see it.
They don't have to be robots to be able to hold interviews without seeming to show the emotions that you might expect them to show. This does not mean they would never have emotions show in private but just that you didn't get to see them.
I don't think we are entitled to see the grief anyway as its their grief not ours but if these were not doctors you might expect less ability to shut down on the emotions to function during interviews. I don't know this is what is going on with the parents but I can certainly see the possibility.
I know people keep saying they are sleuthing and they are following their instincts, that they really want the parents to be innocent and a myriad of other excuses but I still think people have just gotten caught up in a blood fever about this case. Whether the parents are innocent or guilty thats what it looks like and sounds like to me is blood fever (or blood lust.) I am not the only one that has noticed and commented on this although others may not have used that exact term.
it is not just about seeing tears. susan smith had tears. blogging about your jogging and haircut, refusing to admit it was wrong to leave the kids alone, leaving the twins in daycare after maddie was taken, lying about how often they checked on the kids. these actions show a lack of emotion over their missing child.
There is one thing that everyone wants to happen here and that is the safe return of Madelaine, we are entitled to our opinions as to what may have happened and throw whatever we are thinking out there for everyone to read, we do not state that what we say is a true fact, as we dont know what the true facts are, but by working together as a team we have come up with possible theories as to what may have happened.
If there are posters out there who disagree, good on them as they have the right to voice their opinion, but when posters focus their comments on what other posters say could have happened, this is not talking about what this thread is all about, the negative responses I have received about some of my posts is good and well, but my posts are not fact they are my opinion, but we have posters attacking posters because of what they think. I do not attack someone because they dont think the same as me, so imo this blood fever is aimed at some of the posters because their opinions are negative towards the parents and their friends.
There is too much being said about the posters posts and not about the case in hand. Lets just keep putting whatever you think could have happened and why, out there so we can maybe come up with a scenerio that could have happened to Madelaine instead of talking about the posters posts.
april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
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This is exactly what it sounds like to me too.
Did they leave their children, Yes!! Should they have left their children No!! No question about it.
Beyond that all we know right now is they are victims of a terrible crime. We have been told countless times that they are not suspects.
Some choose for their own reasons not to believe that. But until we are told differently they should be treated as such.
More often than not it goes beyond speculation into accusation.
Today there is even a link posted that accuses the families blog of using coded messages. How mad is that?
I hope i'm not the only one who thinks it crazy or I really will believe the world has gone mad!!!
I thought we all lived in countries where you were innocent until proven guilty.
Thankfully there are posters who don't get caught up in the accusations. Which I admit isn't always easy when lies/rumor/misinformation is continually being posted. Even though they don't like the McCanns for leaving the children.
I would love to see some balance here where not everything the McCanns say and do is twisted until it sounds sinister. Where rumor is not taken as gospel and misinformation treated as fact.
Recently a Portugese police officer has condemned some of his own men for feeding false information to the portugese press. This has been ignored here.
The time line and agenda for the day that Madelaine disappeared has been posted several times in this thread, go back and you shall find. I dont think a specific time has been posted, but with the timeline that has been posted you may come to your own conclusion as to what time you think the crime was committed.
april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
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I hope they are on to something.
Don't know if there is any truth in this article but other papers have the same story.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/08/20/new-maddy-evidence-leads-to-raids-89520-19661219/
Don't know if there is any truth in this article but other papers have the same story.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/08/20/new-maddy-evidence-leads-to-raids-89520-19661219/
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