Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 8

[Squishified]

WindChime-
That was an excellent post.

 

[colomom]

There is more than "gut instinct" involved. There is logic:

Posted by Bywaters on the Mirror forum


no one else is involved.
no one.

the McCanns were the last to see the child
they fed her
they bathed her
they dried her off
they put her to bed...where of course she instantaneously fell asleep without making a sound...simultaneously with the twins.
No screaming, no shouting, no playing up.

Then we're asked to believe that a paedophile gang, specially endowed with super powers that enable you to see through doors, just happened to be passing,opened the gate to the apartment and headed straight up the path for the one unlocked door in the whole of Portugal behind which contained 3 babies and no parents.No adults anywhere around in fact, no passers-by, no one anywhere in the streets outside either. No one looking out their window , in fact no witnesses on any road going in or out of Praia da luz. or even Portugal.
No witnesses anywhere.
Even allowing for supernatural paedophiles it isn't credible.

Then we're asked to believe she wandered off alone
But no one saw her? No one around outside anywhere that saw a child alone?
not a single sighting of her, anywhere?
On her entire journey no one saw her.
there's no body,or even a scent of one.
Some item of clothing maybe,something,
Not a scrap.Not a trace.
(er.....cept that doll hawked round by her mother)

In which case we're asked to believe that miraculously a paedophile motorist just happens to be passing at the very second a parentless 3yr old wanders directly into his path in a suddenly abandoned Praia da luz.
So it's just the two of them in Praia da luz.

or maybe we should just go by the 80% statistic that tells us it was the McCanns who are involved in her dissapearance after all.

(I made a slight change because I think it may have been an accident)

 

[Trino]

BUT, how did they get a body out? Was the timing right that they could do this and get back in time for dinner? Surely, their friends wouldn't be involved in a murder/cover-up, would they?

 

[BethInAK]

Sadly even highly educated people don't always make the wisest decisions.
I have a member of my own family, by marriage, who is very highly educated....but I swear doesn't have an ounce of common sense.

I honestly don't think the McCanns are the type of people who would normally have left their children alone though. I do think they were lulled into a false sense of security at this family friendly resort.

I think having three young children played a part too. They knew they would have had to carry the three of them asleep to the creche, both there and back. Besides the difficulty of that it could also have upset their normal sleep pattern, so decided against it.

They know their children best as far sleeping soundly after a very active day. I think most children sleep well on holiday with all the excitment of everything new and would be out for the count.

If they only intended to be gone for the meal they may have thought that between them they could safely check on the children and didn't think they would need a sitter.
The real tragedy is it probably never ever occured to them that somebody else might come in and take their child.

I'm not saying I agree with their decision, because I don't. But I do believe this is probably what happened.

Do you know the McCanns? Because everything that GM has said in interviews leads me to believe that they think its fine to leave the children alone. "It was like dining in our own garden at home" for example. How do you know what "Type" of people they are?

Additionally, the McCanns' didnt' need to leave the children at the creche, the resort had a babysitting service which came to your room, so the excuse that they wouldnt' want to carry the children sleeping is moot.

And finally, the McCanns had another option and that was that one of the PARENTS could miss out on "adult dinner" and stay in the room with the children. This is the option that would be my preference. We'd never go out to dinner and leave the Monk while on vacation - we LIKE his company.

 

[colomom]

BUT, how did they get a body out? Was the timing right that they could do this and get back in time for dinner? Surely, their friends wouldn't be involved in a murder/cover-up, would they?

In a large suitcase or duffel bag.

Since we do not have a solid time she was last seen, anytime between say 4:30PM (picked up from the Creche) and 7:30PM (dinner at the Tapas).

Stranger things have happened. Somebody in the group must have had a rental car or knew someone with a car....

 

[BethInAK]

This post is just my personal opinion. There is not one ounce of a excuse for leaving those precious children alone. I would give my right hand to of been able to experience being a expecting mom and having the beautiful memories to cherish of carrying one of the most precious gifts from God, a precious baby. But due to medical problems I was never able to experience one of the most precious gifts to life most woman experience. I don't care about one's intelligence because one can be very book smart but when it comes to common sense they couldn't even fight their way out of a paper bag.PARENTS KNOW you do NOT leave a young child/children alone. In this case with precious Maddie her parents committed a crime and because of their action lord only knows what this child is going through or what she went through and it's time these selfish acts have to make the parents accountable. Ohh..isnt' it just so horrible the parents might of had to of eaten a cheaper dinner or had one less drink to pay for the sitting services to see that their children were well cared for while they were out having a grand time with their friends. Or isn't it sad that they would of been unconvinced in taking their children along with them. My heavens we are talking about 3 little children being left ALONE. I don't give a dang if it was right across the street with a window ANYTHING could happen. We get our niece and nephew every summer since the age of 3 and I've NEVER left them alone or forgot a child.

Windchime, this was spoken with the passion of someone who'd be the most amazing parent. It took me to become a parent to develop the passion but even before that I'd never have thought it was ok to leave three TODDLERS (I mean toddlers are just into EVERYTHING) alone in a non-childproofed, unlocked hotel room under any circumstances. Hell, I left my child alone in the (completely and utterly childproofed) house today for about thirty seconds while I ran the dog and several items out out to the car and felt uncomfortable with that. I cannot FATHOM how utterly SELFISH a parent would need to be to CHOOSE to leave their children unattended in a strange country so they could have an adult dinner, sans kids. I just cannot FATHOM it. And to me it speaks VOLUMES about the selfishness of these parents. If they were parents who left their child unattended while they worked because they couldnt' afford another option I'd have far more sympathy for them than I do the McCanns.

I personally find it patently unfair that the undeserving find it so easy to become parents and others who so deserve it cannot.

 

[BethInAK]

I thought of another inconsistency:

If the purpose of leaving the patio door locked was so the kids could escape in a fire, how in the world did the McCanns expect the twins, who were in a crib to do so?

 

[BethInAK]

BUT, how did they get a body out? Was the timing right that they could do this and get back in time for dinner? Surely, their friends wouldn't be involved in a murder/cover-up, would they?

How hard is it to carry a 30 pound chld out in a suitcase or duffel bag and place it in the trunk of a car?

 

[CaliKid]

Go about half way down the page to see the picture in question. I brought this up weeks ago and it was blown off as just a guy that happened to be in the background..

http://.com/dd/5441page3.htm

Thanks Jdee. Great source of pictures.

 

[SewingDeb]

In a large suitcase or duffel bag.

Since we do not have a solid time she was last seen, anytime between say 4:30PM (picked up from the Creche) and 7:30PM (dinner at the Tapas).

Stranger things have happened. Somebody in the group must have had a rental car or knew someone with a car....

Didn't Robert Murat rent a car? Needed it in a hurry?

 

[colomom]

Didn't Robert Murat rent a car? Needed it in a hurry?

The car was rented on May 5th so that doesn't fit (I remember thinking that too).

 

[CaliKid]

How hard is it to carry a 30 pound chld out in a suitcase or duffel bag and place it in the trunk of a car?

Okay, before anyone starts on me, I can't find a link for the following information. I know I read it (possibly in the Anorak or SOL- it was an account from someone at the resort the same time the McCanns were there, but either it was removed or ????)

Anyways, the McCanns and their friends dined every night around 7:30. On May 3, they met at the Tapas an hour later than usual. Why? One of the men, Mathew Oldfield I believe, was either late for dinner or never showed up at all. Why?

 

[colomom]

I thought of another inconsistency:

If the purpose of leaving the patio door locked was so the kids could escape in a fire, how in the world did the McCanns expect the twins, who were in a crib to do so?

Good point, guess it makes that "excuse" appear to be just that. I just don't get the unlocked door. Why not lock it? If it was left unlocked to make it easier for people to check on the kids then how many other doors were left unlocked?

It appears that alot of the conflicting information was fabricated to cover up the negligence. Fabricated information can get very difficult to manage.

 

[CarpeDiem]

It appears that alot of the conflicting information was fabricated to cover up the negligence. Fabricated information can get very difficult to manage.

So true, and once you tell one lie, or exaggeration or fabrication, you have to keep telling more and more. Eventually it all colapses. Madeline doesn't have time on her side though to wait.

 

[mrsmousemat]

You say the courts should make the decision to chastise the felons in this case. Well child endangerment is a felony in most countries, so charge the McCanns they are guilty they have admitted they left their children alone, so even though Madelaine is still missing, the McCanns are still felons and should be treated as such.

Suggest that you read previous posts to understand why it is not in anyone's interestes that the McCanns are charged at the moment.

they may be in the future.

 

[mrsmousemat]

You haven't seen any inconsistencies? I

A good example of an inconsistency is that the McCanns stated that the window had been tampered with, but LE says that there is no sign that anyone came in the window.

How do you know this? Only someone who has read the police reports could substantiate this statement. And initially the Mc Canns might have thought that they had kept the other entrance in view and therefore their conclusion might be that the shutters had been tampered with.

Another inconsistency is that the tapas dining room staff says they never saw anyone leave the table, and yet the Mccanns insist they checked the children every half hour.
How do you know this? Only someone who has read all the police reports from the staff could substantiate this statement.

I'm sure others here will be happy to post more inconsistencies. Those are two that come to my not so well researched head at the moment.

And as for "illogical behavior" - again as I stated above, i'm not talking about their grieving process, I'm speaking specifically about how KM's behavior when she found Madeleline missing makes absolutely no sense to me as a mother.
How do you know it was illogical? The fact that you are a mother isn't enough to determine any one else's reaction.

Additionally, in terms of "illogical behavior" it seems logical to me that parents who left their child alone in an unlocked hotel room would accept some responsibility for that part in her disappearance. It seems illogical to me that the dedicated and loving parents you describe would leave a child alone in a hotel room especially a night after their child was crying for Daddy so loudly that the vacationers in a neighboring room had complained to management. If my child is awake and crying for me, I'm generally wanting to stay within earshot. As a PARENT the entire "we go out to dinner and leave three toddlers alone in the hotel room" is ENTIRELY illogical to me. Maybe it isn't to you, but in my world its neglectful to leave toddlers alone in a hotel room while I go out for tapas and cocktails.

How do you know that the people in the next room had complained about the children crying while the parents were out of the room?

Is it possible - and remember the walls in these complexes are insubstatial, that a complaint was made after a poor night's sleep?And how do you know that it was the McCann's children that were crying?

And how do you know they were drinking cocktails?

 

[CaliKid]

Actually, news about the windows was in early reports that were released by the PJ a few days after Madeleine went missing. It was among the first information anyone had on the case when the McCanns insisted that something be said about her disappearance.

The drinking was confirmed by Russell O'Brien, friend of the McCanns who was with them in Portugal.

 

[Shazza]

Suggest that you read previous posts to understand why it is not in anyone's interestes that the McCanns are charged at the moment.

they may be in the future.

There is no information in previous posts that change the fact the McCanns committed a crime, leaving their children alone. Charge them why wait till later, by the time they are charged it will back dated to the day Madelaine disappeared and they probably wont have to serve any time, they may just get a slap on the wrist. These parents were negligent and the law should come into place.

 

[BethInAK]

Beth said: A good example of an inconsistency is that the McCanns stated that the window had been tampered with, but LE says that there is no sign that anyone came in the window.

MsMouseMat said: How do you know this? Only someone who has read the police reports could substantiate this statement. And initially the Mc Canns might have thought that they had kept the other entrance in view and therefore their conclusion might be that the shutters had been tampered with.

I respond: I've read it in multiple newspaper articles. I'm sure if you are following the case closely, so have you.


Beth Said: Another inconsistency is that the tapas dining room staff says they never saw anyone leave the table, and yet the Mccanns insist they checked the children every half hour.

MsMousemat said :How do you know this? Only someone who has read all the police reports from the staff could substantiate this statement.

i respond: Again, in mutiple newspaper articles.


Beth said: And as for "illogical behavior" - again as I stated above, i'm not talking about their grieving process, I'm speaking specifically about how KM's behavior when she found Madeleline missing makes absolutely no sense to me as a mother.

MsMousemat said: How do you know it was illogical? The fact that you are a mother isn't enough to determine any one else's reaction.

I respond: Its illogical that she assumed the child had been taken and its even more illogical that if she thought there was absolutely a kidnapper, that she'd leave her two children unattended. It IS illogical. If you choose to explain that lack of logic away by her panic, you are welcome to believe that.


Beth: Additionally, in terms of "illogical behavior" it seems logical to me that parents who left their child alone in an unlocked hotel room would accept some responsibility for that part in her disappearance. It seems illogical to me that the dedicated and loving parents you describe would leave a child alone in a hotel room especially a night after their child was crying for Daddy so loudly that the vacationers in a neighboring room had complained to management. If my child is awake and crying for me, I'm generally wanting to stay within earshot. As a PARENT the entire "we go out to dinner and leave three toddlers alone in the hotel room" is ENTIRELY illogical to me. Maybe it isn't to you, but in my world its neglectful to leave toddlers alone in a hotel room while I go out for tapas and cocktails.

Ms Mousemat: How do you know that the people in the next room had complained about the children crying while the parents were out of the room?

Again a newspaper article.

Ms Mousemat: Is it possible - and remember the walls in these complexes are insubstatial, that a complaint was made after a poor night's sleep?And how do you know that it was the McCann's children that were crying?

Me: Its possible space aliens came down and were playing a videotape of children crying for their daddy in one of the empty vacation suites, but neighbors to the suite reported that they had complained about a child crying for daddy in the evening coming from the McCann suite.

Is that somehow hard for you to believe? Its been clearly established that the McCanns left the children alone in a hotel room. Why would it be more likely that it was someone elses child than one of the McCann children? (now THAT seems completely illogical to me)

And how do you know they were drinking cocktails?

Again, a newspaper article. Although, I believe it was wine??? Before you ask, I don't have these newspaper articles saved, however, if you were to read all of the Madeleine threads here on WS, all of them are cited here because this is where I get my info.

 

[colomom]

~snippity-snip~

And how do you know they were drinking cocktails?

One of the really great things about this forum is our freedom to post what we think, even if based on conjecture and speculation.

From your post #158 (first one I found):

If he was still around on the night after the disappearance he might have still been gathering information - or not. Particularly since he is described as over eager to please.

Was there a police report to back that up?

Are you suggesting that we are only allowed to post thoughts if backed up by fact (police report, if you consider that fact)?

Nope, sorry, but we will post anything we want, whenever we want, and we should not have to substantiate every thought with an official, documented, notorized form of confirmation.

Please be considerate of the feelings of others that might offer up their thoughts, and with great difficulty (it is not easy suggesting some theories), and do not need to feel like their ideas are not relevant.

Every post is relevant....including yours!