Madeleine McCann found?

[brit1981]

The McCanns have never once refused to partake in a reconstruction. In fact no full reconstruction was ever proposed by the PJ, if one looks at the PJ files one can see that any reconstruction was not going to include potential witnesses and independent witnesses such as the staff and the guests who were there at the time. Th PJ have stated they will reopen the case if new evidence comes to light, not if a reconstruction partial or otherwise takes place.

The final PJ report concluded that there was no evidence against the McCanns, scotland yard stated it was a stranger abduction. No-one has come forward with evidence that they are wrong.

I also do not understand why you are saying that if scotland yard have cleared the McCanns why they are still investigating. The review is to try to find a missing child,as the child is still missing wh ywould they shut it down as soon as they believe it is a stranger abduction . Surely children taken by strangers need to be found too. But that seems to be the problem the anti-mccanns are so focused on the mccanns they forget that this is about a missing child and seem to think that unless a review implicates the parents there is no point to it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I dont see me saying the PJ or Scotland Yard are wrong, I also dont see any official result from the Scotland Yard review or an official end to the Portuguese investigation.
I do see people making bold statements that Scotland Yard have officially cleared the McCanns or anyone else of anything, if that is the case I wonder why Operation Grange is still ongoing and why the PJ state that the case can be reopened if there is new evidence or if the McCanns and associates would be willing to cooperate in a reconstruction.

Is that a clear enough basis for you?

Operation Grange is a joke.

It began to be amusing when Andy Redmond said they have come to the conclusion that Madeleine was either 1. alive or 2. dead.

:banghead:

It continued to be even more hysterical when he opined that "this is the best opportunity to discover what happened that night" when the best opportunity was actually the original investigation, which the McCann refused to cooperate with.

The entire thing is a farce. Here we are nearly 18 months later and apart from the odd imbecilic observation from Andy <modsnip> on morning television (as you do), not a whisper as to a result, a theory, a suspicion, extra evidence. Nothing.

I hope the British taxpayer is happy with the way their money is being spent.

 

[Salem]

The McCanns have never once refused to partake in a reconstruction. In fact no full reconstruction was ever proposed by the PJ, if one looks at the PJ files one can see that any reconstruction was not going to include potential witnesses and independent witnesses such as the staff and the guests who were there at the time. Th PJ have stated they will reopen the case if new evidence comes to light, not if a reconstruction partial or otherwise takes place.

The final PJ report concluded that there was no evidence against the McCanns, scotland yard stated it was a stranger abduction. No-one has come forward with evidence that they are wrong.

I also do not understand why you are saying that if scotland yard have cleared the McCanns why they are still investigating. The review is to try to find a missing child,as the child is still missing wh ywould they shut it down as soon as they believe it is a stranger abduction . Surely children taken by strangers need to be found too. But that seems to be the problem the anti-mccanns are so focused on the mccanns they forget that this is about a missing child and seem to think that unless a review implicates the parents there is no point to it.

You need to link the bolded statements up, please.

Thank you,

Salem

 

[fabgod]

This is the official remit as provided by the Metropolitan Police

Op Grange Remit

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an &#8216;investigative review&#8217;. This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann&#8217;s disappearance.

The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);

The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
UK Law Enforcement agencies,
Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any &#8220;action stage&#8221; if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

The &#8216;investigative review&#8217; will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.

End

from here
http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Operation-Grange/1400005508791/35434

So according to official sources <modsnip>, the Review is a review of the previous investigations and has been set up at the request of the Home Secretary (not the McCanns) to assist the Portuguese Authorities.

 

[fabgod]

http://content.met.police.uk/News/D...nn-is-still-alive/1400008147005/1257246745756

from the official link to the Metropolitan Police site, this is the official statement by Scotland Yard.

The Metropolitan Police state

The intention is to identify from that material investigative opportunities which we will then present to the Portuguese authorities who retain primacy for the investigation

So according to the official statement, The UK police are not actively investigating, they are simply attempting to identify existing and possibly new leads that will then be passed to the Portuguese Police. This is interesting in that the PJ are not actively investigating the case as the case was shelved due according to the PJ final report to the McCanns failure to answer questions posed to them and also to take part in the reconstruction.

The post regarding the McCanns never having refused to take part in the reconstruction is true only in the fact that as Argudios they couldnt refuse to take part, yet the so called tapas friends could refuse and sadly did, which didnt help in the search for answers to Madeleine McCanns disappearance.

 

[brit1981]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
here are some relevant highlights

"The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code."

Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely."

"To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media before the polices was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.

Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child's death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the 'Ocean Club' resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal."

And from andy redwood (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/25/madeleine-mccann-case-reopen-call

"Dismissing conspiracy theories about Madeleine's parents' involvement, Redwood said he believed the girl's disappearance was the result of "a criminal act by a stranger"

So all in all we have the PJ saying there is no evidence the mccanns committed any crime, and that even if people did think that hypothetically they had done it there was no way to explain how they could have got rid of the body. And that is a vital point, if the mccanns were guilty the had an hour in broad daylight to hide the body on foot, without being seen despite the fact this was a holiday village with people coming and going, and in area they did not know well and somewhere the public could access. Then we have the head of scotland yards team, an experienced detective in this field, stating they believe it was a stranger abduction, and pointing out they had identified opportunities for someone to have abducted her.

It i also worth noting that operation grange whilst this is a review have number for people with information about the case to call, and have told people to get in contact if they have any evidence.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...meron-to-re-launch-the-search-for-Maddie.html

The above is an open letter fro the mccanns to the PM published in the sun asking for a review or reopening of the case. This was published before the review was decided upon. So yes is true that the mccanns did not order the review, as they do not have any power to do so, but they had publicly requested it. They had even launched a successful l petition in regards to this.

 

[fabgod]

Again, there are certain posts that portray Scotland Yard as having stated that Madeleine McCanns disappearance is a stranger abduction and that the McCanns have nothing to do with whatever happened to Madeleine in May 2007.

There are no official reports on the findings of Operation Grange that state anything of the sort, the review is ongoing and the findings havent been disclosed.

The only statement was by Andy Redwood who stated what "He" believed. The interview was in april 2012 and since that time there has been no official statement as to any progress made in the search for Madeleine. For anyone to state as they have done, that Scotland yard have cleared the McCanns of any involvement and that Madeleine was definitely taken by a stranger is outright false.
Such statements are merely opinion without foundation and only polarise opinion even more.

People are absolutely entitled to their opinions, but when the opinion is repeatedly posted as fact without any basis in actual fact and without links to msm or official sources, it totally defeats the point of Websleuths forums, its not about posting the same opinion over and over again, that isnt going to convince anyone on here, we have our own minds and intelligence, for all the "not one person has been able to show that the McCanns were involved" there is "not one person who can show one piece of evidence that there was a stranger abduction" in PdL back in May 2007.

 

[fabgod]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
here are some relevant highlights

"The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code."

Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely."

"To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media before the polices was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.

Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child's death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the 'Ocean Club' resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal."

And from andy redwood (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/25/madeleine-mccann-case-reopen-call

"Dismissing conspiracy theories about Madeleine's parents' involvement, Redwood said he believed the girl's disappearance was the result of "a criminal act by a stranger"

So all in all we have the PJ saying there is no evidence the mccanns committed any crime, and that even if people did think that hypothetically they had done it there was no way to explain how they could have got rid of the body. And that is a vital point, if the mccanns were guilty the had an hour in broad daylight to hide the body on foot, without being seen despite the fact this was a holiday village with people coming and going, and in area they did not know well and somewhere the public could access. Then we have the head of scotland yards team, an experienced detective in this field, stating they believe it was a stranger abduction, and pointing out they had identified opportunities for someone to have abducted her.

It i also worth noting that operation grange whilst this is a review have number for people with information about the case to call, and have told people to get in contact if they have any evidence.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...meron-to-re-launch-the-search-for-Maddie.html

The above is an open letter fro the mccanns to the PM published in the sun asking for a review or reopening of the case. This was published before the review was decided upon. So yes is true that the mccanns did not order the review, as they do not have any power to do so, but they had publicly requested it. They had even launched a successful l petition in regards to this.

This seems to be missing from the "list of highlights" above

Nevertheless, despite national authorities assuming all measures to render their trip to Portugal viable, for unknown motives, after the many doubts that they raised about the necessity and opportunity of their trip were clarified several times, they chose not to attend, which rendered the diligence inviable.

We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified.

taken from
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

So in essence, the McCanns could have taken part in a reconstruction, that would have shown if there was indeed a window for abduction or that the routine from that evening could have worked in real terms, yet the Tapas friends decided not to take part, therefore as stated in the inked report, the investigation was disturbed because the said facts remain unclarified.

The McCanns could at any time have asked for the reconstruction to take place and force the reopening of the case yet they havent, they instead made a petition for the UK government to get involved in a Portuguese police investigation, surely it would be more effective to have gone straight to the source instead of to a different country? but maybe that was the point, maybe they dont want the case reopening for some reason?

 

[brit1981]

The mccanns never refused to take part in a reconstruction, and a full reconstruction was never suggested. The PJ only wanted the tapas nine, and jeremy wilkins to attend not other witnesses.
The report above states clearly there is not a shred of evidence the mccanns committed any crime, the reasons that they were made arguidos turned out to be unconfirmed, and the report pointed out that the fact that the mccanns would have had to get rid of a body and as many have said not one <modsnip> has come up with any theory as to how they physically did this. Jeremy wilkins and the tapas nine gave statements to the PJ and british police, so if the PJ could not read through these to construct what the witnesses are saying then it is a sad state of affairs. I also hope there is no implication that <modsnip> are thinking jeremy wilkins was somehow suspicious in refusing to return for a reconstruction.

And scotland yard stated very clearly they believed madeleine was taken in a stranger abduction. That is not a statement without foundation. Scotland yard have access to all the information, and if after a year they had found enough evidence to exclude those know to madeleine, there is no basis to state they are making these claims without foundation.

If anyone has any evidence against the mccanns, including credible theories as to how they got rid of the body in broad daylight in a hour on foot without being seen, then call operation grange.

Also not one <modsnip> has been able to explain why there is a giant conspriacy. Becuase we have heard how the mccanns, the mccanns friends, the mccanns friends of friends, the mccanns friends of friends mother, the MW staff, the Pj, scotland yard, the police involve din the jersey care home excavations, the fss, three governments, the us ambassador, those working for the fund, the priest at pdl etc, are all involved in some sort of giant conspiracy and that this is the reason why there is no evidence against the mccanns. Not one person has been able to come up with any evidence of this, or why it is the most likely scenario in their minds. And how this explains how they got rid of the body. Because the getting rid of the body is at the crux of this, until anyone has even a theory as to how they did this there is no reason to think the mccanns even COULD have done it.

 

[fabgod]

The mccanns never refused to take part in a reconstruction, and a full reconstruction was never suggested. The PJ only wanted the tapas nine, and jeremy wilkins to attend not other witnesses.
The report above states clearly there is not a shred of evidence the mccanns committed any crime, the reasons that they were made arguidos turned out to be unconfirmed, and the report pointed out that the fact that the mccanns would have had to get rid of a body and as many have said not one <modsnip> has come up with any theory as to how they physically did this. Jeremy wilkins and the tapas nine gave statements to the PJ and british police, so if the PJ could not read through these to construct what the witnesses are saying then it is a sad state of affairs. I also hope there is no implication that <modsnips> are thinking jeremy wilkins was somehow suspicious in refusing to return for a reconstruction.

And scotland yard stated very clearly they believed madeleine was taken in a stranger abduction. That is not a statement without foundation. Scotland yard have access to all the information, and if after a year they had found enough evidence to exclude those know to madeleine, there is no basis to state they are making these claims without foundation.

If anyone has any evidence against the mccanns, including credible theories as to how they got rid of the body in broad daylight in a hour on foot without being seen, then call operation grange.

Also not one <modsnip> has been able to explain why there is a giant conspriacy. Becuase we have heard how the mccanns, the mccanns friends, the mccanns friends of friends, the mccanns friends of friends mother, the MW staff, the Pj, scotland yard, the police involve din the jersey care home excavations, the fss, three governments, the us ambassador, those working for the fund, the priest at pdl etc, are all involved in some sort of giant conspiracy and that this is the reason why there is no evidence against the mccanns. Not one person has been able to come up with any evidence of this, or why it is the most likely scenario in their minds. And how this explains how they got rid of the body. Because the getting rid of the body is at the crux of this, until anyone has even a theory as to how they did this there is no reason to think the mccanns even COULD have done it.

As stated in my earlier post, it makes no difference at all that you keep making the same point about the McCanns never having refused to take part in a reconstruction, the fact is they couldnt refuse while under arguido status, so its not really much use stating the obvious over and over again.

The whole point of the PJ wanting to do a reconstruction is to test if the statements that you mention actually tally up, which I would hazard a guess, the PJ were/are of the opinion that they didnt and that is possibly why the friends made every excuse not to return and do the reconstruction.

You seem to be keen to continue making the point repeatedly that everyone thinks there is a massive conspiracy, not everyone thinks that way, it is just as possible that very few people would have to be involved in the disposal of a childs body, the fewer people that knew the less likely it would be that other people would be likely to slip up or come clean under pressure.

And scotland yard stated very clearly they believed madeleine was taken in a stranger abduction. That is not a statement without foundation

Could you show a link to Scotland Yard or the Metropolitan Police sites that state this?
I presume it will be the Andy Redwood "I believe" statement from Daybreak?
hardly an official review statement is it really?

Everybody knows all about operation Grange and the metropolitan police contact numbers and if anyone had any information that could help the case I am sure people would indeed contact them without the constant and rather offensive reminders.

Again, I have asked this question before but it seems to be ignored, but where is the one shred of evidence of any abductor in the files?
Are we to take it <modsnip>, that the whole of the PJ involved in the investigation were going entirely on the orders of the in your words "convicted criminal" Goncalo Amaral? because if that was the case, then why did the PJ continue to investigate the McCanns after he was removed from the case?

You mention that the McCanns would have had to have hidden a body in broad daylight, where did that piece of amazing information come from?
Was it not dark that evening? because according to your posts, you state that it was, especially when it was so dark that Jane Tanner couldnt be seen by Wilkins and McCann, which is when, according to you, the one or two abductors were supposedly taking Madeleine through the window or patio door or maybe the unlocked front door

<modsnip>

 

[Sabot]

<modsnip>. There is and never has been any evidence to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter. And no Police Force has ever been able to suggest otherwise. Make of that what you may, it remains a fact.
<modsnip>.

 

[brit1981]

The reason I said the mccanns had to move a body in the daylight was because it did not start to get dark that day until eight thirty, when the mccanns were first seen at dinner by other guests (non tapas nine). After that time the mccanns were only away from witnesses for about five minutes each, and never together alone. The alarm was raised at tennish and people were swarming everywhere in the flat, so the body could not have been there then.

The hour comes from the fact Madeleine was seen alive by people outside the tapas nine at five thirty, and gerry was seen at the tennis courts from six to half seven. So that leaves an hour max for them to hide the body, whilst on foot in a public area, in a village they did not know well, in daylight without one person seeing them. Or if we think that they hid the body after it got dark it means they had a max of five minutes to hide a body on foot in a public place in a village they did know well. The final report from Portugal also highlights this gaping great hole in the "mccanns did it" theory. It also highlights the fact that if it were possible for the mccanns to have done this unseen, it most certainly is possible for an abductor to have done it unseen.

Anyway one slices it the PJ have stated there is no evidence against the mccanns, and no explanation whatsoever as to how they managed to hide a body, and the head of operation grange has said publicly that it is a stranger behind the disappearance.

And once again not one person has been able to come up with a theory (credible or otherwise to be honest) as to how the mccanns physically removed the body from their flat, and given that they could not have done it without doing this it is rather a vital point.

The evidence pointing to a stranger

1) no evidence pointing to anyone who knew her, therefore all that are left are the tens of thousands of people within an hour or so of PDL.
2) Tanner's sighting
3) smiths sighting
4) open window
5) unidentified fingerprints on window
6) several witesses claim to have seen a man watching the flat
7) witness states they think someone could have stood for a while watching the flat from a stairwell due to sudden appearence of many cigarette ends there
8) break ins in the area inc. neighbouring flats,
9) in the three years previous there had been several reports of someone breaking in to abuse tourist children in holiday flats. All within an hour of PDL

And that is just the information released to the public. Scotland yard and PJ have the full files, and scotland yard have even more due to information gathered from PIs etc. They have both said no evidence to implicate the parents, so it therefore has to be someone other than the parents and there was not time for it to be anyone else in their group.

 

[fabgod]

The reason I said the mccanns had to move a body in the daylight was because it did not start to get dark that day until eight thirty, when the mccanns were first seen at dinner by other guests (non tapas nine). After that time the mccanns were only away from witnesses for about five minutes each, and never together alone. The alarm was raised at tennish and people were swarming everywhere in the flat, so the body could not have been there then.

The hour comes from the fact Madeleine was seen alive by people outside the tapas nine at five thirty, and gerry was seen at the tennis courts from six to half seven. So that leaves an hour max for them to hide the body, whilst on foot in a public area, in a village they did not know well, in daylight without one person seeing them. Or if we think that they hid the body after it got dark it means they had a max of five minutes to hide a body on foot in a public place in a village they did know well. The final report from Portugal also highlights this gaping great hole in the "mccanns did it" theory. It also highlights the fact that if it were possible for the mccanns to have done this unseen, it most certainly is possible for an abductor to have done it unseen.

Anyway one slices it the PJ have stated there is no evidence against the mccanns, and no explanation whatsoever as to how they managed to hide a body, and the head of operation grange has said publicly that it is a stranger behind the disappearance.

And once again not one person has been able to come up with a theory (credible or otherwise to be honest) as to how the mccanns physically removed the body from their flat, and given that they could not have done it without doing this it is rather a vital point.

The evidence pointing to a stranger

1) no evidence pointing to anyone who knew her, therefore all that are left are the tens of thousands of people within an hour or so of PDL.
2) Tanner's sighting
3) smiths sighting
4) open window
5) unidentified fingerprints on window
6) several witesses claim to have seen a man watching the flat
7) witness states they think someone could have stood for a while watching the flat from a stairwell due to sudden appearence of many cigarette ends there
8) break ins in the area inc. neighbouring flats,
9) in the three years previous there had been several reports of someone breaking in to abuse tourist children in holiday flats. All within an hour of PDL

And that is just the information released to the public. Scotland yard and PJ have the full files, and scotland yard have even more due to information gathered from PIs etc. They have both said no evidence to implicate the parents, so it therefore has to be someone other than the parents and there was not time for it to be anyone else in their group.

Still recycling the "Scotland yard saying there is no evidence to implicate the parents" - as requested more than once, please show an official source of that claim because I doubt there is one to be honest.
There is simply the one interview with Andy Redwood who says that "he believes" that is in no way Scotland Yard coming out and stating what you repeatedly post as being fact, but if it floats your boat, so be it!

1) no evidence pointing to anyone who knew her, therefore all that are left are the tens of thousands of people within an hour or so of PDL.
2) Tanner's sighting
3) smiths sighting
4) open window
5) unidentified fingerprints on window
6) several witesses claim to have seen a man watching the flat
7) witness states they think someone could have stood for a while watching the flat from a stairwell due to sudden appearence of many cigarette ends there
8) break ins in the area inc. neighbouring flats,
9) in the three years previous there had been several reports of someone breaking in to abuse tourist children in holiday flats. All within an hour of PDL

in reply to the points
1. The PJ undoubtedly had reason to suspect the parents, they were assisted in this by UK police who were developing the case against the parents rghtly or wrongly, but obviously they had reason to suspect the parents from the information that they had and which we/you were not privy to.
2.Tanners sighting, this cannot even be agreed with Wilkins and Gerry McCann without even attempting to go with the ever evolving description that she presented of abductor and Child
3.Smith sighting, totally discounted by the McCanns and the man was described as being Gerry McCann by one of the family members
4. What open window? the one with the jemmied shutters that later were not jemmied?
the window that could be opened from the outside but couldnt be?
the shutters could be pulled up part way but the window could only be opened from the inside
5. Unidentified because they were only partly distinguishable and how many people would have touched these shutters in the lifetime of the apartment?
6. several witnesses, all discounted by the PJ investigations from what i can see unless other evidence is available
7. oh come on, what next, chewing gum on the path?
8.how many break ins? one, two? the Fenn apartment? how many attempted abductions? none
9.Which reports are these can you show a link or is it merely heresay?

If that is the evidence for an abductor, there is none at all

 

[fabgod]

<modsnip>. There is and never has been any evidence to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter. And no Police Force has ever been able to suggest otherwise. Make of that what you may, it remains a fact.
<modsnip>.

The dogs are not evidence but they certainly implicate the parents imo, time will tell if they were or were not involved, as I stated in other posts, for me they know a lot more about what happened that evening than they acknowledge, but again that is simply my opinion and I have seen nothing from any supporter of the McCanns to show me any different

 

[SapphireSteel]

The Portugese Police have ultimate control of the investigation.

All that is required for them to reopen it, is a request from Gerry and Kate McCann.

Do date, they have not contacted the PDJ in any way to ask for this to occur, as they realise they will be forced to supply phone records, a reconstruction, and cooperation. This is the absolute last thing the McCann wants.

So, contrary to what has been posted here as "fact", Kate and Gerry absolutely DO have the power to have it reopened, but have refused the option.

It also remains published fact that the British Police are the ones who identified their involvement in the first place. Eddie and Keela were supplied by the British Police as a result of these suspicions.

I would question why these original detectives are not heading up the new investigation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...vidence-against-Madeline-McCanns-parents.html

:cow:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Regarding Tanners "sighting" and the Smiths -

These sightings occurred nearly an hour apart.

Are we to believe the "abductor" was wandering around PDL with a deceased Madeleine in his arms, on his way to nowhere, for at least an hour?

Extraordinary.

:lol:

 

[SapphireSteel]

<modsnip>. There is and never has been any evidence to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter. And no Police Force has ever been able to suggest otherwise. Make of that what you may, it remains a fact.
<modsnip>.

The McCanns were declared arguidos.

Sounds like a fairly strong "suggestion" to me.

:banghead:

 

[jigzy]

The reason I said the mccanns had to move a body in the daylight was because it did not start to get dark that day until eight thirty, when the mccanns were first seen at dinner by other guests (non tapas nine). After that time the mccanns were only away from witnesses for about five minutes each, and never together alone. The alarm was raised at tennish and people were swarming everywhere in the flat, so the body could not have been there then.

The hour comes from the fact Madeleine was seen alive by people outside the tapas nine at five thirty, and gerry was seen at the tennis courts from six to half seven. So that leaves an hour max for them to hide the body, whilst on foot in a public area, in a village they did not know well, in daylight without one person seeing them. Or if we think that they hid the body after it got dark it means they had a max of five minutes to hide a body on foot in a public place in a village they did know well. The final report from Portugal also highlights this gaping great hole in the "mccanns did it" theory. It also highlights the fact that if it were possible for the mccanns to have done this unseen, it most certainly is possible for an abductor to have done it unseen.

Anyway one slices it the PJ have stated there is no evidence against the mccanns, and no explanation whatsoever as to how they managed to hide a body, and the head of operation grange has said publicly that it is a stranger behind the disappearance.

And once again not one person has been able to come up with a theory (credible or otherwise to be honest) as to how the mccanns physically removed the body from their flat, and given that they could not have done it without doing this it is rather a vital point.

The evidence pointing to a stranger

1) no evidence pointing to anyone who knew her, therefore all that are left are the tens of thousands of people within an hour or so of PDL.
2) Tanner's sighting
3) smiths sighting
4) open window
5) unidentified fingerprints on window
6) several witesses claim to have seen a man watching the flat
7) witness states they think someone could have stood for a while watching the flat from a stairwell due to sudden appearence of many cigarette ends there
8) break ins in the area inc. neighbouring flats,
9) in the three years previous there had been several reports of someone breaking in to abuse tourist children in holiday flats. All within an hour of PDL

And that is just the information released to the public. Scotland yard and PJ have the full files, and scotland yard have even more due to information gathered from PIs etc. They have both said no evidence to implicate the parents, so it therefore has to be someone other than the parents and there was not time for it to be anyone else in their group.

Can you please provide links to 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.

 

[brit1981]

links
5) http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm#p4p967

6) http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DEREK_FLACK.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GAIL_COOPER.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/REX-MORGAN.htm#morgan4010
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LANCE_PURSER.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

7) http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm (further details about sy interview http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/347692/Maddie-McCann-the-smoking-gun-)

8) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tuguese-police-examine-burglaries-resort.html
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm (at end, also note her nieces statement

9) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hunters-claim-Algarve-awash-paedophiles.html
I have also posted other links in regards to number nine in earlier posts. Only links available are news reports due to nature of crime, the police reports cannot be released I believe

Sapphire,
The sightings were only approx. forty five minutes apart. Given people can easily be five minutes out, it could be anything from 35 - 55 mins to be honest.And as we do not know why madeleine was abducted, or by whom or where they live dor had a vehicle we have not one reason to dismiss the connection. WE know tanner made her description independently of the smiths (and no it could not ave been gerry as several independent witness put gerry at the complex at the time of the smith sighting, and all the smiths at the time said it was too dark to see the mans face, and only later one of them said that perhaps by the body language it could be gerry, but they could not be sure whilst the others said they could not identify the man as gerry) so its a bit of coincidence the sightings are so similar. We also have no reason to belive the man was carrying a deceased madeline.

AS for the arguido status the final report states clearly that the reasons they were made arguidos were not supported by the evidence. The final report states there was no evidence against them, and no explanation as to how they disposed of the body. Scotland yard stated in an interview they believed it was a stranger abduction, the mccanns were not strangers to madeline.

Once again, has anyone who thinks the parents are implicated got any theories as to how they got rid of her body. If they did it they had to have her body out of the flat by the time the search began.

 

[jigzy]

Thanks for the links, working my way through them. Not sure if FOUR ciggies constitutes 'many', or that the seemingly dodgy charity collectors were 'watching' the apartment.

I am an Eddie and Keela fan