Madeleine McCann found?

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So now the Salvation Army are responsible?

If it were so, they would have rescued all three children.
 
links
5) http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm#p4p967

6) http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DEREK_FLACK.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GAIL_COOPER.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/REX-MORGAN.htm#morgan4010
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LANCE_PURSER.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

7) http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm (further details about sy interview http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/347692/Maddie-McCann-the-smoking-gun-)

8) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tuguese-police-examine-burglaries-resort.html
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm (at end, also note her nieces statement

9) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hunters-claim-Algarve-awash-paedophiles.html
I have also posted other links in regards to number nine in earlier posts. Only links available are news reports due to nature of crime, the police reports cannot be released I believe

Sapphire,
The sightings were only approx. forty five minutes apart. Given people can easily be five minutes out, it could be anything from 35 - 55 mins to be honest.And as we do not know why madeleine was abducted, or by whom or where they live dor had a vehicle we have not one reason to dismiss the connection. WE know tanner made her description independently of the smiths (and no it could not ave been gerry as several independent witness put gerry at the complex at the time of the smith sighting, and all the smiths at the time said it was too dark to see the mans face, and only later one of them said that perhaps by the body language it could be gerry, but they could not be sure whilst the others said they could not identify the man as gerry) so its a bit of coincidence the sightings are so similar. We also have no reason to belive the man was carrying a deceased madeline.

AS for the arguido status the final report states clearly that the reasons they were made arguidos were not supported by the evidence. The final report states there was no evidence against them, and no explanation as to how they disposed of the body. Scotland yard stated in an interview they believed it was a stranger abduction, the mccanns were not strangers to madeline.

Once again, has anyone who thinks the parents are implicated got any theories as to how they got rid of her body. If they did it they had to have her body out of the flat by the time the search began.


Is this supposed to be a joke?
The links are from the McCanns own private investigators who have now had their contracts terminated - they found nothing despite apparently spending vast amounts of money on searches looking for "abductors" ranging from men without faces to Victoria Beckham lookalikes. They found nothing and the links are from those very same "investigators"

one word "unbelievable"

The fingerprints - I find it ridiculously hard to understand how someone can spend so much time and effort attempting and failing to discredit cadaver dogs and their work, yet will present evidence based on a few fingerprints taken from the doors and windows of a rental apartment that are unidentified?

Could it possibly be the prints are unidentified because one or more of the apartment tenants that had stayed there over the previous years, had somehow managed to touch a door in the apartment or indeed a window shutter? maybe that same person has never been in trouble before touching that window and therefore they have no record on police files because they were simply holidaymakers?

If those links are the sum total of the "abductor theory" then there is no abductor, is that really it? are there "hidden files" somewhere?
 
Is this supposed to be a joke?
The links are from the McCanns own private investigators who have now had their contracts terminated - they found nothing despite apparently spending vast amounts of money on searches looking for "abductors" ranging from men without faces to Victoria Beckham lookalikes. They found nothing and the links are from those very same "investigators"

one word "unbelievable"

The fingerprints - I find it ridiculously hard to understand how someone can spend so much time and effort attempting and failing to discredit cadaver dogs and their work, yet will present evidence based on a few fingerprints taken from the doors and windows of a rental apartment that are unidentified?

Could it possibly be the prints are unidentified because one or more of the apartment tenants that had stayed there over the previous years, had somehow managed to touch a door in the apartment or indeed a window shutter? maybe that same person has never been in trouble before touching that window and therefore they have no record on police files because they were simply holidaymakers?

If those links are the sum total of the "abductor theory" then there is no abductor, is that really it? are there "hidden files" somewhere?

The window had just been cleaned.

The only fingerprints found were those of Kate McCann, as if she had opened the window from the inside.

:furious:
 
other finger prints were found on the outside. it is untrue to say that no other finger prints were found. And even if they were not it means nothing fi someone wore gloves, but unidentified prints were found anyway.

But this is what I do not understand the PJ have stated there is no evidence against the McCanns, that the material used to make them arguidos turned out to be unable to be confirmed, and that even if anyone did think it was then no-one has come up with an explanation as to how they got rid of a body, scotland yard have said they believe it was a stranger abduction. Yet on the internet people who admit they were not there, who unless the law has been somehow broken have only seen 80% of the PJ files and even those that have not been professionally translated by legal translators and have instead been translated by peple who think they can translate are certain that the PJ and scotland yard are wrong. What are they basing this on?

Additionally not one person has been able to come up with a theory as to how they got rid of the body. We know from people outside the tapas nine madeleine was alive and well at five thirty, we know gerry was on the courts from six to seven thirty, we know they were at dinner at eight thirty, we know it was just getting dark at eight thirty, and we know between eight thirty and ten gerry and kate were never alone together and were only alone for about five minutes max, and we know the alarm was raised at tennish and after this time the mccanns and the flat were surrounded by people inc. police, sniffer dogs, mw staff, other guests etc. We know not one person has ever come forward to say they saw them hiring a boat, hiding a body, walking around with somethign a body could be hid in it.
So it is all very well saying they are implicated, but how did they get rid of the body between five thirty and ten without a single witness? Unless that cna be answered, the theory the mccanns are implicated does not have a leg to stand on.

jigzy,

If there were normally no cigerettes there, and then suddeny four appeared over night, then I would say they should have been examined. They are not in anyway conclusive - I mean even if someone was watching the flat it could easily have been after the alarm was raised and they were just rubber necking. But it seems odd they never examined them.
Only one of the links I provided is based on material from the PIs, although the embassy were also aware of these according to other reports on the cases. the rest come directly from the PJ files that were released, noting that only 80% of the files were released to the public, whilst SY have 100% and theirs woudl have been professionally translated.

As for the dogs, it is important to remember that according to his handler eddie was trained to alert to dried blood and bodily fluids that had come from a living donor. In flat 5a a person who had stayed there shortly before the mccanns claimed to have cut himself and bled for forty five minutes, and says he walked around the flat trying to stem the flow. So there is no way of knowing what eddie alerted to. Plus eddie is the dog that alerted in jersey where no bodies wre found, only bodily fluids on tissues, and in the shannon mathews case the dogs alerted but she was found alive, so it is thought they alerted to old furniture. As for the car, eddie never actually alerted in the car, he alerted by the door to the car, and then to the card fobb that was in the door. The card fobb contained material from gerry mccann who is alive. As for cuddle cat, if one looks at the video eddie does not alert to the cat at all, in fact the only time he is seen on video with the toy he ignores it. This is why the dogs are not meant to be used as evidence on their own, and are designed to help recover victims. There was a report by the police authorities saying the recovery dogs were more of a hinderence than a help in many cases.
 
..................
Additionally not one person has been able to come up with a theory as to how they got rid of the body. We know from people outside the tapas nine madeleine was alive and well at five thirty, we know gerry was on the courts from six to seven thirty, we know they were at dinner at eight thirty, we know it was just getting dark at eight thirty, and we know between eight thirty and ten gerry and kate were never alone together and were only alone for about five minutes max, and we know the alarm was raised at tennish and after this time the mccanns and the flat were surrounded by people inc. police, sniffer dogs, mw staff, other guests etc. We know not one person has ever come forward to say they saw them hiring a boat, hiding a body, walking around with somethign a body could be hid in it.
So it is all very well saying they are implicated, but how did they get rid of the body between five thirty and ten without a single witness? Unless that cna be answered, the theory the mccanns are implicated does not have a leg to stand on.

jigzy,

If there were normally no cigerettes there, and then suddeny four appeared over night, then I would say they should have been examined. They are not in anyway conclusive - I mean even if someone was watching the flat it could easily have been after the alarm was raised and they were just rubber necking. But it seems odd they never examined them.
...............

As for cuddle cat, if one looks at the video eddie does not alert to the cat at all, in fact the only time he is seen on video with the toy he ignores it. This is why the dogs are not meant to be used as evidence on their own, and are designed to help recover victims. There was a report by the police authorities saying the recovery dogs were more of a hinderence than a help in many cases.

Re. How they got rid of a body without a single witness:
Smith sighting? We don't know whether there were other witnesses do we? Tapas group member? A wealthy friend living nearby with a car maybe?

Re. Seeming odd that the cigarette butts were not examined:
What seems odd to me is that the twins were not checked immediately for having been drugged as they were sleeping so heavily and K checked their breathing.
What also seems odd is that the parents thought it was ok to leave their babies and toddler home alone in an apartment that was the other side of a wall, across a swimming pool and out of earshot of them. That seems pretty odd to me given that they are seen as being fit enough parents to carry on bringing their kids up and not be punished according to Portuguese law. Don't people smuggling drugs caught in countries abroad get punished by the laws of those countries? How long does it take for a baby to choke to death? I'm pretty sure it's less time than the family took between 'checks' that evening.
What also seems odd is that KM could manage to go jogging within days of the 'abduction' yet didn't search. Maybe she searched whilst jogging, eh?
What also seems odd is that the Mctapas gang spent time creating a timeline. What for? If the person who saw M last on a check knew the time then the 'abductor' must have struck after that time. No need for the other times to be documented at that stage.
What also seems odd is the involvement of such high profile people willingly supporting the abduction theory. Flying the MCs off to meet the Pope.
What also seems odd is the first media reports as breaking news the following morning here in the UK had a child welfare officer saying that leaving kids home alone was ok under those circumstances as the parents were nearby.
What also seems odd is the trip to Huelva with posters printed in the wrong language. Surely with the funds pouring in, they could have printed them in the correct language.
What also seems odd is that the parents said they would give up their house to find M, yet the very questionable fund made it possible to raise millions of £s providing financial assistance for the family.
What also seems odd is how quickly the parents changed their minds about staying in Portugal.... when the dogs arrived.
...... I could go on and on.....

As for Cuddle Cat:
It probably smelled wonderfully of Persil at that time.


All IMO.
 
Re. How they got rid of a body without a single witness:
Smith sighting? We don't know whether there were other witnesses do we? Tapas group member? A wealthy friend living nearby with a car maybe?

Re. Seeming odd that the cigarette butts were not examined:
What seems odd to me is that the twins were not checked immediately for having been drugged as they were sleeping so heavily and K checked their breathing.
What also seems odd is that the parents thought it was ok to leave their babies and toddler home alone in an apartment that was the other side of a wall, across a swimming pool and out of earshot of them. That seems pretty odd to me given that they are seen as being fit enough parents to carry on bringing their kids up and not be punished according to Portuguese law. Don't people smuggling drugs caught in countries abroad get punished by the laws of those countries? How long does it take for a baby to choke to death? I'm pretty sure it's less time than the family took between 'checks' that evening.
What also seems odd is that KM could manage to go jogging within days of the 'abduction' yet didn't search. Maybe she searched whilst jogging, eh?
What also seems odd is that the Mctapas gang spent time creating a timeline. What for? If the person who saw M last on a check knew the time then the 'abductor' must have struck after that time. No need for the other times to be documented at that stage.
What also seems odd is the involvement of such high profile people willingly supporting the abduction theory. Flying the MCs off to meet the Pope.
What also seems odd is the first media reports as breaking news the following morning here in the UK had a child welfare officer saying that leaving kids home alone was ok under those circumstances as the parents were nearby.
What also seems odd is the trip to Huelva with posters printed in the wrong language. Surely with the funds pouring in, they could have printed them in the correct language.
What also seems odd is that the parents said they would give up their house to find M, yet the very questionable fund made it possible to raise millions of £s providing financial assistance for the family.
What also seems odd is how quickly the parents changed their minds about staying in Portugal.... when the dogs arrived.
...... I could go on and on.....

As for Cuddle Cat:
It probably smelled wonderfully of Persil at that time.


All IMO.

The smith sighting was not of gerry. We know this because several non-tapas nine wiotness place him at the complex at this time. Given the sighting was at about the same time the alarm was raised people are going to remember seeing the father there. The smiths have not once identified the man they saw as gerry. At the time they all said they had no idea who the man coudl be. Several weeks later after the mccanns were made arguidos one of the smiths said though it was dark, he did not have his glasses and he could not identify the face of the man, he thought that perhaps by the body language the man may have been gerry but he wa sin no way positive. The other smiths did not support this. The PJ discounted the smith sighting as gerry.

Even if one of the taps nine other than the mccanns dispose dof the body, how did they do it given they are all accounted for, and faced the same issues in that they did not know the area well, had no vehicle, only had access to public areas etc.

There is no record of the mccanns knowing anyone in the area at this time, aside from their holiday companions. The PJ final report confirms this, when they talk about the fact that no-one can see how the mccansn could have got rid of a body.

There is nothing suspicious about going jogging, especially if this is what you normally do to try to clear your head, de-stress. The McCanns had had a horrendous ordeal, and they had two choices 1) keep going, 2) collapse and become incapable. They chose the first option because they had three young children and each other who needed them to be OK, and one of those children really needed them to help find her. People who lose a child in whatever circumstances keep going normally. I remember when two girls disappeared from cambridgeshire a few years ago, they were not found for about two weeks and during that time one of the mothers spoke to a reporter when out shopping - she said she had to do soemthing. It is normal.

According to the PJ files, Kate did look, although in the UK police do not normally allow parents to physically search for their child. Do you have any evidence that contradicts the witnesses that sya kate was looking that night?

Rightly or wrongly leaving a child in thse circumsatnces is not neglect. The PJ report I linked ot above disccuses Portuguese neglect laws and explains why the mccanns were not guilty of it.

Listening services, where children are left in a room and a nanny listens outside the door every half an hour are popular in the EU and no-one has ever been prosecuted for using one. The McCanns made their own listening service by checking the children every half hour, just like the listening service their friends had used in a MW resort the year before. Whether we agree with it or not, thousands use these services. I agree it is a stupid thing to do, and a child could easily get hurt in half an hour, but the thing is they are legal and are used so the mccanns were not unusual in this.

The mccanns left quite a while after the dogs appeared. And lets face it, eddie was cute but despite the red tops claims not one of europes top dogs. According to SYP he was not even top in the two dog team he worked on and had only found one body in his career with them (and if news reports were to be believed, humans coudl smll the body). Not one person has been able to substantiate clams that eddie was one of the best, that he never failed. WE know his alerts in jersey did not mean a body was there, and we know he alerted to dried blood. So the fact he alerted to a card fobb that only contained material from a living person, and then alerted to a flat where someone had bled for 45 mins does not mean anything in terms of whether madeleine had died there or not.

There is no evidence the mccanns washed the cat just before the dogs arrived, it was several weeks before. and washing a cuddly toy is not exactly unusual.

So has anyone actually got any evidence against the mccanns as opposed to just speculation and opinion? The PJ said there was no evidence against them, scotland yard say it was a stranger. Where is the evidence that contradicts them?

And most importantly how was the body gotten rid of either by the mccanns or their friends. Some time between five thirty when madeleine was last seen alive by MW staff, and ten when the alarm was raised and people were swarming in and out of the flat the body had to be hidden, and hidden so well it was not found by anyone, or to be fair any sniffer dog, eddie or the ones deployed that very night. There is no record of the mccanns or their friends knowing anyone in PDL, so unless someone can work out how they did it the mccanns cannot not have anythign to do with the disappearance, since if they did then they would have had to have got rid of the body. And if anyone can work out how they did it, they may well have cracked the case so its worth thinking about.
 
The smith sighting was not of gerry. We know this because several non-tapas nine wiotness place him at the complex at this time. Given the sighting was at about the same time the alarm was raised people are going to remember seeing the father there. The smiths have not once identified the man they saw as gerry. At the time they all said they had no idea who the man coudl be. Several weeks later after the mccanns were made arguidos one of the smiths said though it was dark, he did not have his glasses and he could not identify the face of the man, he thought that perhaps by the body language the man may have been gerry but he wa sin no way positive. The other smiths did not support this. The PJ discounted the smith sighting as gerry.

Even if one of the taps nine other than the mccanns dispose dof the body, how did they do it given they are all accounted for, and faced the same issues in that they did not know the area well, had no vehicle, only had access to public areas etc.

There is no record of the mccanns knowing anyone in the area at this time, aside from their holiday companions. The PJ final report confirms this, when they talk about the fact that no-one can see how the mccansn could have got rid of a body.

There is nothing suspicious about going jogging, especially if this is what you normally do to try to clear your head, de-stress. The McCanns had had a horrendous ordeal, and they had two choices 1) keep going, 2) collapse and become incapable. They chose the first option because they had three young children and each other who needed them to be OK, and one of those children really needed them to help find her. People who lose a child in whatever circumstances keep going normally. I remember when two girls disappeared from cambridgeshire a few years ago, they were not found for about two weeks and during that time one of the mothers spoke to a reporter when out shopping - she said she had to do soemthing. It is normal.

According to the PJ files, Kate did look, although in the UK police do not normally allow parents to physically search for their child. Do you have any evidence that contradicts the witnesses that sya kate was looking that night?

Rightly or wrongly leaving a child in thse circumsatnces is not neglect. The PJ report I linked ot above disccuses Portuguese neglect laws and explains why the mccanns were not guilty of it.

Listening services, where children are left in a room and a nanny listens outside the door every half an hour are popular in the EU and no-one has ever been prosecuted for using one. The McCanns made their own listening service by checking the children every half hour, just like the listening service their friends had used in a MW resort the year before. Whether we agree with it or not, thousands use these services. I agree it is a stupid thing to do, and a child could easily get hurt in half an hour, but the thing is they are legal and are used so the mccanns were not unusual in this.

The mccanns left quite a while after the dogs appeared. And lets face it, eddie was cute but despite the red tops claims not one of europes top dogs. According to SYP he was not even top in the two dog team he worked on and had only found one body in his career with them (and if news reports were to be believed, humans coudl smll the body). Not one person has been able to substantiate clams that eddie was one of the best, that he never failed. WE know his alerts in jersey did not mean a body was there, and we know he alerted to dried blood. So the fact he alerted to a card fobb that only contained material from a living person, and then alerted to a flat where someone had bled for 45 mins does not mean anything in terms of whether madeleine had died there or not.

There is no evidence the mccanns washed the cat just before the dogs arrived, it was several weeks before. and washing a cuddly toy is not exactly unusual.

So has anyone actually got any evidence against the mccanns as opposed to just speculation and opinion? The PJ said there was no evidence against them, scotland yard say it was a stranger. Where is the evidence that contradicts them?

And most importantly how was the body gotten rid of either by the mccanns or their friends. Some time between five thirty when madeleine was last seen alive by MW staff, and ten when the alarm was raised and people were swarming in and out of the flat the body had to be hidden, and hidden so well it was not found by anyone, or to be fair any sniffer dog, eddie or the ones deployed that very night. There is no record of the mccanns or their friends knowing anyone in PDL, so unless someone can work out how they did it the mccanns cannot not have anythign to do with the disappearance, since if they did then they would have had to have got rid of the body. And if anyone can work out how they did it, they may well have cracked the case so its worth thinking about.

Can't be bothered to trawl through my mac's hard drive and post links to counter your claims, but I find your logic, well, illogical.

Re. "so unless someone can work out how they did it the mccanns cannot not have anythign to do with the disappearance":
Whether one believes the 'abducted by a stranger' theory or not, the fact remains that if the children were not left alone (to fend for themselves that evening whilst the parents and their friends enjoyed themselves) we would never have heard of MM let alone her disappearance. They DID have something to do with her disappearance just by leaving her in an unlocked apartment. You wouldn't leave a thousand £s in an unlocked apartment, so why leave 3 children who are priceless and completely irreplaceable?
By your own logic, unless someone can prove that the couple did not have a friend with a vehicle, they could have had something to do with her disappearance.


Jmo
 
Re. How they got rid of a body without a single witness:
Smith sighting? We don't know whether there were other witnesses do we? Tapas group member? A wealthy friend living nearby with a car maybe?

Re. Seeming odd that the cigarette butts were not examined:
What seems odd to me is that the twins were not checked immediately for having been drugged as they were sleeping so heavily and K checked their breathing.
What also seems odd is that the parents thought it was ok to leave their babies and toddler home alone in an apartment that was the other side of a wall, across a swimming pool and out of earshot of them. That seems pretty odd to me given that they are seen as being fit enough parents to carry on bringing their kids up and not be punished according to Portuguese law. Don't people smuggling drugs caught in countries abroad get punished by the laws of those countries? How long does it take for a baby to choke to death? I'm pretty sure it's less time than the family took between 'checks' that evening.
What also seems odd is that KM could manage to go jogging within days of the 'abduction' yet didn't search. Maybe she searched whilst jogging, eh?
What also seems odd is that the Mctapas gang spent time creating a timeline. What for? If the person who saw M last on a check knew the time then the 'abductor' must have struck after that time. No need for the other times to be documented at that stage.
What also seems odd is the involvement of such high profile people willingly supporting the abduction theory. Flying the MCs off to meet the Pope.
What also seems odd is the first media reports as breaking news the following morning here in the UK had a child welfare officer saying that leaving kids home alone was ok under those circumstances as the parents were nearby.
What also seems odd is the trip to Huelva with posters printed in the wrong language. Surely with the funds pouring in, they could have printed them in the correct language.
What also seems odd is that the parents said they would give up their house to find M, yet the very questionable fund made it possible to raise millions of £s providing financial assistance for the family.
What also seems odd is how quickly the parents changed their minds about staying in Portugal.... when the dogs arrived.
...... I could go on and on.....

As for Cuddle Cat:
It probably smelled wonderfully of Persil at that time.


All IMO.

Jigzy
Excellent post
In particular the point you raised about the need for the Tapas group to be making a timeline when the last person to have seen Madeleine in the apartment was the only one that mattered.

How do the McCann supporters spin that one then I wonder?
 
This blind defence of anything to do with the McCanns would be quite funny if it wasnt so ridiculous.
The Smith sighting is very important, the man states that he was 80 per cent sure that the man he saw that evening was Gerry McCann.
The witnesses that can attest to Gerry McCann being at the Tapas restaurant who would they be? the friends?
lets not forget that some of the Ocean Club staff have made statements that the "abduction" happened as early as 9.30pm, so if they are half an hour out, who is to say that there wasnt the same mistakes made in placing Gerry McCann at the Tapas bar?

Brit1981, you keep trying to make some obscure point about us having only 80% of the files and that they are poorly translated?
So are you in possession of all the correctly translated 100% files? if not, then you are in the same boat as the rest of us, if they are good enough for you to make your decisions on, then they are certainly good enough for the rest of us lol!
 
The fact is unless the mccanns could have had a way to get rid of the body between five thirty and ten, then they could not have been responsible for the disappearance. Because if they were responsible they had to get rid of the body. How did they do it, the PJ actually stated that they could not see how in their files.
Their telephone records were looked at and there is no record of them having made a call to someone in the area that night before the alarm was raised. So even if they had a friend in the area how did they contact them noting that once it was dark they were each only alone for five minutes and Jeremy wilkins confirms he saw gerry walking away from the flat. So if people are so sure that the mccanns did it, so sure that they are happy to accuse them of some involvement, they must have an idea how they could have done it. So far not one person has every come up with a theory. And the smith sighting has been discounted by the police as being gerry since it was several people saying gerry was at the complex inc. staff and guests, all but one of the smiths saying they could not identify the man, and one smith saying he could not identify the man and weeks later saying by the body language it MIGHT have been gerry, but he could not see the face.

And lets look at the dogs, say we assume that the handler is wrong that eddie only ever alerts to the scent from a dead body, not dried blood or bodily fluids from a living person, and say that body was madeleine's and assume that eddie is never wrong, and remembering that the handler said transferance could occur lets look at what the alerts would mean. They mean that the only place a dead body could have been in 5A were behind the sofa and in the wardrobe, that the only things that came into contact with the body either directly or through transferance were the card fobb, the side car door that contained the card fobb, a few items of clothing, and something in the villa that on the video is unidentified, but did not appear strong since the dog took some time and encouraging to alert and then never alerted at anything directly.
So as well as being able to get rid of a body (so well that no-one found it) in either only five minutes, half an hour, or an hour with the only dark period being the five minutes period, with not a single witness, the McCanns have also ensured that the only things the body touched or its scent were transferred to were a spot behind the sofa, the corner of a wardrobe, a few items of clothing they were not seen wearing and nor was madeleine seen wearing that day (and which for some reason they kept instead of disposing of with the body), a car door, a card fobb, and something in the villa. Like everyone is keen to point out, nothing else was contaminated which means they did not hide the body in those other flats checked, the body was not in the back of the car, the body was no-where else in the flat i.e bed, on the floor where someone tried to revive her, and the mccanns hardly touched the body since there was no transfer odour found! There is also the implication that if the dog is right it means that as well as hiding the body so well on the night the alert was raised, they then in front of the worlds media, the police, the flos, other guests, MW staff, friends and family, consular staff etc retrieved the body whilst only getting the odour on the card fobb and car door, and hid it again for someone unknown reason and yet again without any witnesses or people reporting suspicious behaviour!

The dog alerts also further complicate matters when trying to claim it was the mccanns because it indicates that madeleine died behind the sofa since no alert was mad ein he rbed or on the sofa, so why the cover up. If the mccanns were in the flat when she fell, why on earth woudl they cover that up as it was just an accident that happened whilst they were there and presumably did not have time to stop - children will clamber about quickly. If it happened when they were at dinner it measn it was discovered during one of the two five minutes a mccann was away from the table. It seems unlikely that gerry went to check on them found madeleine dead behind the sofa, and then contnued back to dinner, stopped for a chat, then told everyone at the table including the mother what had happened, and they all carried on with their meal until ten. If Kate was th eone who found her, then she was only there for a few minutes so had no time to hide the body (neither did gerry), then why did she start calling everyone in the restuarants attention to it, starting a search, having people in the flat etc. And again how did they get rid of the body so well, and so quickly?

No-one has any explanation for any of these points, yet they are vital because unless they can be answered there is no way of even beginning to demonstrate their guilt.
 
Why cover up you say? Well, if sedation was being administered then YES, I can see a motive there for covering up an accident. Livelihood, big house, the lot gone in a flash.

If some other or all of the tapas group was complicit, then not difficult to come up with a theory really. The searches did not go on all night, and to begin with, as in the April Jones case recently, early searches involved people calling her name and looking for a live child. Quite different to looking in places where a small body was hidden. Imo
 
Why cover up you say? Well, if sedation was being administered then YES, I can see a motive there for covering up an accident. Livelihood, big house, the lot gone in a flash.

If some other or all of the tapas group was complicit, then not difficult to come up with a theory really. The searches did not go on all night, and to begin with, as in the April Jones case recently, early searches involved people calling her name and looking for a live child. Quite different to looking in places where a small body was hidden. Imo

First no evidence of sedation whatsoever. Second, if we are to believe the dogs are always right, that means madeleine died behind the sofa, which does not fit with the sedation theory. And it seems that a key point in the "the parents did it" theory is the dog alerts.

But if it is not difficult to come up with a theory why in five and a half years has no-one come up with a theory. Even if the friends were involved they still had to hide a body somewhere it was not found in a very very short amount of time. People were looking in bins etc. But then even in daylight why was it not found, why did no-one see them disposing of it, why did those sniffer dogs miss it, how if eddie is correct did the mccanns manage to hide it without the scent transfering to far more places. The body had to be hidden that evening so there are only so many places, yet it was not found even days and weeks later.
 
First no evidence of sedation whatsoever. Second, if we are to believe the dogs are always right, that means madeleine died behind the sofa, which does not fit with the sedation theory. And it seems that a key point in the "the parents did it" theory is the dog alerts.

But if it is not difficult to come up with a theory why in five and a half years has no-one come up with a theory. Even if the friends were involved they still had to hide a body somewhere it was not found in a very very short amount of time. People were looking in bins etc. But then even in daylight why was it not found, why did no-one see them disposing of it, why did those sniffer dogs miss it, how if eddie is correct did the mccanns manage to hide it without the scent transfering to far more places. The body had to be hidden that evening so there are only so many places, yet it was not found even days and weeks later.

No evidence of sedation whatsoever you say. Well, they weren't tested for at least a month despite the parents thinking that the perp who 'abducted' M might have sedated the twins. Pretty funny that. I'm not talking hard drugs, just a normal dose of calpol will make kids sleepy, even drowsy enough to fall off a sofa if left unattended for a period of time in an unfamiliar apartment maybe. K's father is on film talking about calpol, no? I don't get how you can't link the two things together - sedation and an accident. Simple! Kids crying disturbing neighbour one night, yet sleeping like they're sedated on a different night, the night the perp happens to call by to steal a child.

As for not coming across a theory about concealment in five and a half years, well, quite frankly you must have missed quite a few, or haven't been looking at this objectively. Jmo.
 
No evidence of sedation whatsoever you say. Well, they weren't tested for at least a month despite the parents thinking that the perp who 'abducted' M might have sedated the twins. Pretty funny that. I'm not talking hard drugs, just a normal dose of calpol will make kids sleepy, even drowsy enough to fall off a sofa if left unattended for a period of time in an unfamiliar apartment maybe. K's father is on film talking about calpol, no? I don't get how you can't link the two things together - sedation and an accident. Simple! Kids crying disturbing neighbour one night, yet sleeping like they're sedated on a different night, the night the perp happens to call by to steal a child.

As for not coming across a theory about concealment in five and a half years, well, quite frankly you must have missed quite a few, or haven't been looking at this objectively. Jmo.

1) Calpol is not a sedative. The only way you could make someone sleepy with it is to give them so much they begin to get liver damage and die (or clunk them over the head with the bottle) which with calpol would require bottles and bottles of the stuff. An overdose of calpol would also more than likely cause vomiting too, no traces of which were found.

2) Kate's father clearly states they never sedated the children. He then goes on to say that the only medicine they gave the children was calpol [a non sedative] like many parents.

3) If madeleine died of sedation, then it means she died behind the sofa or in the wardrobe or that the dogs are unreliable.

4) no-one was ever able to positvely confirm that it was madeleine who was heard crying.

5) not one person has come up with a credible theory as to how they got rid of the body. They have made general claims such as they put it in a freezer, then in their car then disposed of it somewhere. But not one person has been able to say how the body went from being in the flat to very well hidden between five thirty and ten. The PJ final report confirmed this has not been explained. Nor has anyone explained how they retrieved the body several weeks later in front of tens and tens of people including reporters with video cameras, and the police without anyone noticing a thing. Nor has anyone been able to explain why they would move it if it was hidden so well.

But if people are so certain the mccanns are implicated, then can they please explain how the body was removed from the flat that evening, and how if the dogs are to be trusted as 100% accurate madeleine died in the wardrobe or behind the sofa, and why her body was only in those two places, and how so little scent transfer occurred.
 
1) Calpol is not a sedative. The only way you could make someone sleepy with it is to give them so much they begin to get liver damage and die (or clunk them over the head with the bottle) which with calpol would require bottles and bottles of the stuff. An overdose of calpol would also more than likely cause vomiting too, no traces of which were found.

2) Kate's father clearly states they never sedated the children. He then goes on to say that the only medicine they gave the children was calpol [a non sedative] like many parents.

3) If madeleine died of sedation, then it means she died behind the sofa or in the wardrobe or that the dogs are unreliable.

4) no-one was ever able to positvely confirm that it was madeleine who was heard crying.

5) not one person has come up with a credible theory as to how they got rid of the body. They have made general claims such as they put it in a freezer, then in their car then disposed of it somewhere. But not one person has been able to say how the body went from being in the flat to very well hidden between five thirty and ten. The PJ final report confirmed this has not been explained. Nor has anyone explained how they retrieved the body several weeks later in front of tens and tens of people including reporters with video cameras, and the police without anyone noticing a thing. Nor has anyone been able to explain why they would move it if it was hidden so well.

But if people are so certain the mccanns are implicated, then can they please explain how the body was removed from the flat that evening, and how if the dogs are to be trusted as 100% accurate madeleine died in the wardrobe or behind the sofa, and why her body was only in those two places, and how so little scent transfer occurred.



Calpol night. Discontinued in the UK
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/aches-and-pains/medicines/calpol-night.html

"can potentially cause side effects such as allergic reactions, effects on sleep or hallucinations"

"Diphenhydramine is a type of medicine called a sedating antihistamine. It enters the brain in sufficient quantities to cause drowsiness."

<Mod Snip>
 
Calpol night. Discontinued in the UK
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/aches-and-pains/medicines/calpol-night.html

"can potentially cause side effects such as allergic reactions, effects on sleep or hallucinations"

"Diphenhydramine is a type of medicine called a sedating antihistamine. It enters the brain in sufficient quantities to cause drowsiness."

<Mod Snip>

Calpol night was not on the market until September 2007. 4 months after Madeleine went missing

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/41993456/The%20Calpol%20Myth
 
I think there needs to be two seperate threads here one for those who believe the McCanns were directly responsible for Madeleine's death and one which addresses the abduction theory. All that's happening is people are pulling up the same links over and over again trying to argue their point. No one is actually trying to find Madeleine dead or alive.

Also, this thread seems to be getting personal. People need to respect people have differing opinions to what happened. No one can say 100% that their theory is correct and sadly we may never know what happened to Madeleine.

Personally, at this stage I don't think the McCanns harmed Madeleine in anyway. If i'm wrong then fool me but I would rather be wrong at this time than write Madeleine off as dead.

JMO
 
Regarding Calpol/calpol night.

This is really irrelevant. It was banned in the UK as it had been REMOVED from the shelves, obviously due to risks for children. It was reworked and put back on the shelves as a slightly different product (safer).

The McCann quite probably bought a bottle or six at the Faro Airport. They were regular travellers with small children so this is quite likely to be something they did on every trip, in countries where it was still available in its original form (dangerous).

They could have given them a shot of valium for all I know. Or a cocktail.

:dunno:

The point of the "Calpol" is that it is another example of a McCann lie.

Kate McCann claimed to have never used this product for a sedative, yet her own father innocently informed LE about the "sleep chart" and Calpol use at home.

Just another lie.

:cow:
 
I think there needs to be two seperate threads here one for those who believe the McCanns were directly responsible for Madeleine's death and one which addresses the abduction theory. All that's happening is people are pulling up the same links over and over again trying to argue their point. No one is actually trying to find Madeleine dead or alive.

Also, this thread seems to be getting personal. People need to respect people have differing opinions to what happened. No one can say 100% that their theory is correct and sadly we may never know what happened to Madeleine.

Personally, at this stage I don't think the McCanns harmed Madeleine in anyway. If i'm wrong then fool me but I would rather be wrong at this time than write Madeleine off as dead.

JMO

I agree 100%.

<Mod Snip> :)
 
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