Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 19

[daffodil]

exactly - I think the clamour for a lie test is just a red herring as people would still doubt their innocence

It does nothing to help find madeline - it is just another focus on the parents - which should only be done under the laws of the land where they are being tried or investigated .

Exactly.IMO it is just one more excuse to bash the McCanns.I dont think we even have polygraphers in the UK do we?

 

[ThoughtFox]

I was surprised by this headline today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=495012&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Kate McCann's mother: 'I can't understand why the children were left alone'

The mother of Kate McCann has said she could not understand why the couple left their children in their holiday apartment while they went for dinner with friends.

Susan Healy, 61, told the Panorama interview: "I have to say that I'm surprised that Kate and Gerry left their children at all. I have thought about it a lot because they are such caring parents and I think 'why?'"

 

[Gin]

Exactly.IMO it is just one more excuse to bash the McCanns.I dont think we even have polygraphers in the UK do we?

Of course there are polygraphers in UK. Their work can be used as an investigative tool, even though the results aren't admissable.

 

[daffodil]

Of course there are polygraphers in UK. Their work can be used as an investigative tool, even though the results aren't admissable.

I have never heard of any OR of the test being administered here.

 

[Gin]

I have never heard of any OR of the test being administered here.

LE aren't the only ones who use them. Business, finance, high security...Most of the search engines turn up plenty of polygraphers in UK.

My only point is that if the McC's want to do everything in their power to attempt to clear themselves, they do have options. And I would add their many dinner partners have the same option.

I continue to be intrigued, and very troubled, by the wall of silence.

 

[daffodil]

I have never heard of any OR of the test being administered here.

I am sooo stupid :loser: I should have known we have them here-I watch Jeremy Kyle after all :doh:

 

[gord]

LE aren't the only ones who use them. Business, finance, high security...Most of the search engines turn up plenty of polygraphers in UK.

My only point is that if the McC's want to do everything in their power to attempt to clear themselves, they do have options. And I would add their many dinner partners have the same option.

I continue to be intrigued, and very troubled, by the wall of silence.

It is a valid point - but the point also remains that only the Portugese authorities can clear them and polygraphs would mean nothing to them - again all it would be would be to get public opinion - get the doubters back on side

The wall of silence ? well Gerry and kate havent been quiet - in fact they have been in the news every day - they have made a documenttry and even got a film crew in back in August to follow them around - in fact it was revealed in the Panorama show that when they made the trip to Spain ( the one where every said they were hiding the body ) they had a camera man and an assistant in the back seat filming -

The rest of the Tapas have been quiet at the strict orders of the PJ - they are not allowed to speak - Tanner is now the only one who has now come out and spoken

 

[Gin]

I am sooo stupid :loser: I should have known we have them here-I watch Jeremy Kyle after all :doh:

Oh, goodness. We're all sharing and learning. I'm always glad to read everyone's input. This little part of the puzzle, (the whole polygraph issue) does really interest me. What would most parents of a missing small child be willing to do or not do? And then there is the other slight possibility....the McC's took a poly long ago, we just don't know that they did.

The advantage to testing? It might allow the police some room to look more seriously elsewhere, should the results show innocence. (And I would never just assume a polygraph result be useless and meaningless to any LE. It's a tool. I think LE the world around would certainly be interested in having a close look at the questions and results, regardless of admissibility.)

 

[emery]

firstly it wouldnt rule them out as arguidos - the PJ would ignore any results from a lie detector test because they are not used in Portugal or the UK - say they passed - the police would still carry on with the invesigation

so what is the point - they are not 100% reliable and they dont do anything to find Madeline - just a media thing that would provide another batch of headlines .

Exactly.

Scientific studies have shown polygraph tests to be only slightly better than a coin flip. They are not reliable at indicating when someone is lying. The McCanns have everything to lose by taking one and being told they lied when they didn't.

The fact that some law enforcement use it doesn't mean its reliable. Frankly, polygraph exams are used more as interrogation tools than as a scientific way to tell if a suspect is lying. It's a form of intimidation that investigators hope will get someone to crack and talk. The exam itself isn't worth the paper the squiggly lines are printed on.

 

[Zelda]

Actually many defense attorneys arrange for their clients to take a polygraph privately, before they send their client on to take one with the police. Depending on the results, sometimes defense attorneys advise their clients to decline a "real" polygraph with police.

With missing children, though, it's kind of interesting that some parents will do just about anything to clear themselves, with the goal of allowing the police to move on to other suspects. They immediately volunteer for a polygraph, because they don't want a second wasted on finding the real criminal. Other parents just aren't interested in going the polygraph route.

Both of Job Benet's parents refused to be tested. Very odd.

 

[lakes]

Exactly.

Scientific studies have shown polygraph tests to be only slightly better than a coin flip. They are not reliable at indicating when someone is lying. The McCanns have everything to lose by taking one and being told they lied when they didn't.

The fact that some law enforcement use it doesn't mean its reliable. Frankly, polygraph exams are used more as interrogation tools than as a scientific way to tell if a suspect is lying. It's a form of intimidation that investigators hope will get someone to crack and talk. The exam itself isn't worth the paper the squiggly lines are printed on.

i have been looking at this, how to cheat the test.
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Cheating[/FONT]
Polygraph readings, however, are not solid evidence for anything. The very act of having to defend their character may agitate a perfectly innocent person to the extent where the machine records that they are lying. There are also various ways to cheat the polygraph:

• The examinee may bite their tongue, dig their nails into the palm or do something else that causes pain and significant discomfort just before they answer every question. The pain should prompt a greater physiological response than a lie would, so it would drown out the response to the lie, and would mean that the response to the test would be the same every time.
• The examinee may use deodorant on their fingertips if they know they will be measured for sweatiness. This absorbs the sweat and so fixes the results.
• The subject may use a sedative, to dull their body's response to the point where the difference between the reactions to truth and lies is so small as to make the test inconclusive.

 

[aussie_mum]

Ok so maybe not entirely appropriate..... but with all this talk about lie detector tests I keep thinking about that episode of the Simpsons where Homer does the test and they explain it all then they ask if he understands and he says yes and the machine goes in to meltdown and explodes.:angel:

 

[Trino]

Ok so maybe not entirely appropriate..... but with all this talk about lie detector tests I keep thinking about that episode of the Simpsons where Homer does the test and they explain it all then they ask if he understands and he says yes and the machine goes in to meltdown and explodes.:angel:

And, let's not forget Jessica Lundsford's grandfather whose results were inconclusive. Can you imagine how this poor man must have felt being suspect of his grand-daughter's disappearance, when he had nothing to do with Jessica's disappearance?

 

[Dr. Creepin]

I suspected the McCann’s killed their daughter and fabricated the abduction, on day one. Why? Because their act was unconvincing and statistically, infanticide was far more likely. That was before they initiated a circus, courted the media, launched a website and set up the fund. It was before Gerry began writing his mundane blog and before their European tour with so many contrived interviews. It was before I heard they were swingers and left their kids alone every night. It was before Clarence Mitchell became their spokesman and Gordon Brown stuck his oar in. Before the cadaver dogs arrived and the PJ made the arguidos. It was before they returned to England without Madeleine, after saying that was inconceivable. It was long before they paid their mortgage from the fund and hired top lawyers. Before billionaire benefactors supported them financially and the cream of British detectives fought in their corner. It was before they invented ‘bundleman’ and before I knew that none of their statements matched and before I was aware that the twins slept throughout the commotion. It was before the rash of alleged sightings which proved false and before the press *advertiser censored* began defending them. It was before they began issuing threats to anyone who accused them and before their ultimatum to police, “Find the body and prove we killed her.” So, what do I think now, after two hundred days of this fiasco? I believe my intuition was correct and everything which has since transpired only serves to reinforce my suspicion that Madeleine was not kidnapped, but died in apartment 5A of the Ocean Club on May 3rd and with the help of their compromised friends, they thoroughly disposed of the body, knowing their guilt would be difficult to prove, without a corpse. They are confident that they will never be charged and that some positive PR will restore their reputations and convince the public of their innocence and victimhood. And, they expect to make a lot of money from it!

 

[Shazza]

I suspected the McCann’s killed their daughter and fabricated the abduction, on day one. Why? Because their act was unconvincing and statistically, infanticide was far more likely. That was before they initiated a circus, courted the media, launched a website and set up the fund. It was before Gerry began writing his mundane blog and before their European tour with so many contrived interviews. It was before I heard they were swingers and left their kids alone every night. It was before Clarence Mitchell became their spokesman and Gordon Brown stuck his oar in. Before the cadaver dogs arrived and the PJ made the arguidos. It was before they returned to England without Madeleine, after saying that was inconceivable. It was long before they paid their mortgage from the fund and hired top lawyers. Before billionaire benefactors supported them financially and the cream of British detectives fought in their corner. It was before they invented ‘bundleman’ and before I knew that none of their statements matched and before I was aware that the twins slept throughout the commotion. It was before the rash of alleged sightings which proved false and before the press *advertiser censored* began defending them. It was before they began issuing threats to anyone who accused them and before their ultimatum to police, “Find the body and prove we killed her.” So, what do I think now, after two hundred days of this fiasco? I believe my intuition was correct and everything which has since transpired only serves to reinforce my suspicion that Madeleine was not kidnapped, but died in apartment 5A of the Ocean Club on May 3rd and with the help of their compromised friends, they thoroughly disposed of the body, knowing their guilt would be difficult to prove, without a corpse. They are confident that they will never be charged and that some positive PR will restore their reputations and convince the public of their innocence and victimhood. And, they expect to make a lot of money from it!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I have thought the same from the very beginnning too. Dr Creepin, you have wrote exactly what I have been thinking.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Dittoes to Dr. Creepin!

 

[Barnaby]

I suspected the McCann’s killed their daughter and fabricated the abduction, on day one. Why? Because their act was unconvincing and statistically, infanticide was far more likely. That was before they initiated a circus, courted the media, launched a website and set up the fund. It was before Gerry began writing his mundane blog and before their European tour with so many contrived interviews. It was before I heard they were swingers and left their kids alone every night. It was before Clarence Mitchell became their spokesman and Gordon Brown stuck his oar in. Before the cadaver dogs arrived and the PJ made the arguidos. It was before they returned to England without Madeleine, after saying that was inconceivable. It was long before they paid their mortgage from the fund and hired top lawyers. Before billionaire benefactors supported them financially and the cream of British detectives fought in their corner. It was before they invented ‘bundleman’ and before I knew that none of their statements matched and before I was aware that the twins slept throughout the commotion. It was before the rash of alleged sightings which proved false and before the press *advertiser censored* began defending them. It was before they began issuing threats to anyone who accused them and before their ultimatum to police, “Find the body and prove we killed her.” So, what do I think now, after two hundred days of this fiasco? I believe my intuition was correct and everything which has since transpired only serves to reinforce my suspicion that Madeleine was not kidnapped, but died in apartment 5A of the Ocean Club on May 3rd and with the help of their compromised friends, they thoroughly disposed of the body, knowing their guilt would be difficult to prove, without a corpse. They are confident that they will never be charged and that some positive PR will restore their reputations and convince the public of their innocence and victimhood. And, they expect to make a lot of money from it!

I totally agree with everything you have said Dr. Creeping, so sad that these monsters just may get away with it!

 

[gord]

I totally agree with everything you have said Dr. Creeping, so sad that these monsters just may get away with it!

Very harsh words, very harsh - Before I would ever label anyone monsters I would maybe at least like to see some firm evidence - maybe even a charge or two - god knows maybe a trial

of course I could be wrong - who knows for sure

I realise that evidence and such like is a pesky inconvienence to some people who would just like to these two locked up

I am actualy a bit shocked by the verocity of some views here - and I dont shock that easily

 

[daffodil]

I totally agree with everything you have said Dr. Creeping, so sad that these monsters just may get away with it!

:silenced: :silenced:

 

[Trino]

Dr. Creepin, do you really feel this was pre-meditated? I like your analysis, but I find it difficult to comprehend parents pre-meditating killing their child. But, stranger things have happened.