Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 26

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April4sky, IIRC, there was a white van belonging to a known pedophile that had been seen in the area. He later died. I can't remember his name.
 
Claycat said:
April4sky, IIRC, there was a white van belonging to a known pedophile that had been seen in the area. He later died. I can't remember his name.
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He was NOT in the area at the time of her "abduction" if you mean the guy who killed Yeleni
 
Isabella said:
He was NOT in the area at the time of her "abduction" if you mean the guy who killed Yeleni
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I hope that's true, Isabella! I've always believed that Madeleine is still alive! So, I definitely hope that is the case. Thanks!
 
Claycat said:
I hope that's true, Isabella! I've always believed that Madeleine is still alive! So, I definitely hope that is the case. Thanks!
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I think everyone would like that.

However according to the prosecutor of the case Menezes thats highly unlikely. He stated in a copy of the Portugese press on the 6th August that Madeleine died that evening in the apartment. He said he did not believe that the McCanns killed her but that they were negligent. I assume he came to this conclusion after reading all the files he had. He totally discounted the fact that she was kidnapped.
 
Respectfully snipped from "April4sky"
It wasn't only the FSS who did the forensics. Some things were sent for testing to a Portuguese Lab and they came up with nothing.
IMO there is no way such a highly respected Lab as the FSS would be part of a conspiracy.


FSS are not above reproach as proven here;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/23/hodgson-forensic-evidence

I am not a conspiracy theorist but the UK Govt. stinks to high heaven, in my work I see cover ups and spin all the time.
There are so may odd things about this case. I would not want to see innocent parents persecuted on forums and elsewhere but IMO there is something very fishy going on here.
How can a couple go on holiday with three children, return with two and it is all just dropped, no proper searches, investigation, mickey mouse PIs, fundraising activities, the only thing that seems to be done is putting up posters and the MCanns were even making people pay for them at first:mad:
 
Texana said:
Eddie is the "cadaver dog" and is specially trained to detect the presence of cadaverine and only that of humans. Keela is specially trained to detect the presence of blood.

Eddie alerted to the scent of cadaverine (from a human, again, he does not alert to animal or other decomposed organic material) in the living room, behind the sofa.

Keela alerted to the scent of blood in the same spot, behind the sofa, in the living room, close to the outside window.

Blood was found when the tiles behind the sofa were removed and tested. However, the sample was degraded, probably due cleaning chemicals.

The FSS lab was able to check only five markers from that site but all five of those markers matched Madeleine's DNA. There were no markers that could not have come from Madeleine.
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Thanks Texana for the info. This evidence could indicate that Madeleine had been dead in the apartment for some time (hidden behind the sofa) before the body was removed. Couple this with the cadaver scent found on Kate McCann's clothes (and also on cuddle cat?) - this is prettty incriminating evidence.

At what time exactly did the McCanns show up at the tapas bar on that night?

At what time was the children's room checked for the first time?

Which of the Tapas Nine did the checking and what did he/she state?
 
rashomon said:
Thanks Texana for the info. This evidence could indicate that Madeleine had been dead in the apartment for some time (hidden behind the sofa) before the body was removed. Couple this with the cadaver scent found on Kate McCann's clothes (and also on cuddle cat?) - this is prettty incriminating evidence.

At what time exactly did the McCanns show up at the tapas bar on that night?

At what time was the children's room checked for the first time?

Which of the Tapas Nine did the checking and what did he/she state?
Click to expand...

Those are the stories that are contradictory. At first the Tapas 9 said they checked hourly; then they changed that to every half hour, then it was every fifteen minutes.

The McCanns have said they arrived at the restaurant at varying times, between 8:30 to almost 9:00.

Yes, times could vary and some details vary as different witnesses to an event tell a story. But the discrepancies and changes are so much more consistent than the facts that don't change. And interestingly enough, the people who are peripheral witnesses (with the exception of Charlotte Pennington the creche employee/Nanny) their stories remain consistent. Jeremy Wilkins has not changed his story about encountering Gerry McCann but never seeing Jane Tanner (whose account places herself in very close vicinity at the same time.)

Another interesting fact about the Tapas 9 party: Many people, including not only the staff of the Mark Warner resort but local citizens as well, were out searching for Madeleine. The Tapas 9 party did not search for her.

According to Jeremy Wilkins' partner Bridget O'Donnell, one of the three men knocked on their door to say that Madeleine had been abducted. Jeremy Wilkins asked if they needed help and was told "There is nothing you can do."

There are no reports of the friends searching the next day either, nor of the McCanns.

This is hugely significant because in those early hours, no one had as yet any reason to suspect the McCanns. And yet no one will testify that any of the party was out searching physically for Madeleine.

If the Tapas party really believed Madeleine had been abducted (and perhaps, logically and understandably, would hope in those early hours that she had just wandered off) why would they ever tell someone "There's nothing you can do?"
 
badhorsie said:
Respectfully snipped from "April4sky"
It wasn't only the FSS who did the forensics. Some things were sent for testing to a Portuguese Lab and they came up with nothing.
IMO there is no way such a highly respected Lab as the FSS would be part of a conspiracy.


FSS are not above reproach as proven here;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/23/hodgson-forensic-evidence

I am not a conspiracy theorist but the UK Govt. stinks to high heaven, in my work I see cover ups and spin all the time.
There are so may odd things about this case. I would not want to see innocent parents persecuted on forums and elsewhere but IMO there is something very fishy going on here.
How can a couple go on holiday with three children, return with two and it is all just dropped, no proper searches, investigation, mickey mouse PIs, fundraising activities, the only thing that seems to be done is putting up posters and the MCanns were even making people pay for them at first:mad:
Click to expand...


This case is just so damn weird. I have never in my life seen anything like it. Compare this case to the Shannon case last year. She was missing what nearly a month? And after the first couple of weeks the story wasnt in the papers hardly. Her parents werent offered ex governement workers for PR people. The media really went to town on the mother ( and quite rightly so IMO) but still..at that time Shannon was " missing" and yet we was being told every little detail about her mother and the guys she had the kids with and people she had allegedly had affairs with. They really went nuts and at that point the media didnt know what really happened - and yet they wasnt stopped from writing malicious things about the family. Just about every media site here had the comments page open so you could post your feelings on them.

Salem i think it was commented on Gordon Brown. Yes he is our Prime Minister. He was NOT elected by us to do this job - we got him foisted on us without an election. I personally believe he will cost Labour the next election. I have always voted Labout..but never again because i cant vote for someone who helps cover kids going missing. And - i think a lot will be the same. Personally i think hes the most unpopular Pm we have ever had and for the record...i think he interfered way to much in this case. And yes ...i think he influenced the outcome of the case. Its kinda strange that Brown knew before Amaral did that he was getting the chop.

I do wish we had the same rights as you guys in America to say as you wanted. But we dont. Or not with regards to thiis matter we dont. Almost immediately after Madeleine went "missing" the parents had her made a ward of court. Firstly this stops a lot of the stories getting out about the families. At one point there was apparently 16 injunctions out to stop stories being printed. IF any of our papers dared to post anything negative they was threatened they would get sued...any negative stories would disappear within hours of them being on any sites..we couldnt post on any comments pages about them...the Mirror did allow it...but that went whoosh in the end also. And then a private forum was made..and that was awesome cos Clarence Mitchell couldnt do anything about that. It is so pathetic on the major sites here like Sky they wont allow comments because they know most of the c ountry will trash the McCanns.

Freedom of speech? Not where the McCanns are concerned. After the story yesterday about the new "appeal" one paper did open the comments page for a few hours. Now the Independent isnt a tabloid and is one of the "posher" papers. This is a saved file from there and yes i realise its hard to read cos they are all together..but there are literally hundreds of comments and there not good. http://www.4shared.com/file/94923595/52e39d26/Independent_Comments.html

Of course the Independent wiped them all clean again lol.

We are the only country in Europe that cant buy Amarals book. Why? What is it there so scared of?
 
If you look at the FSS statement about the results of testing on the DNA material found in the blood found in the Renault, it is very significant. They stated that the material could not be conclusively identified as Madeleine.

That was the phrasing. However, what was left out was the significant and incredibly incriminating fact that it could not be ruled out that the DNA was Madeleine's. In fact, 15 out of 19 markers were identified as Madeleine's and the twins were ruled out.

The FSS statement was very bland and general but it cleverly left of the reverse logic that is obvious to anyone--It could not be identified conclusively because of the degraded material but nor could Madeleine be ruled out.

And the chances of the blood coming from anyone else? Less than 1 in 1000.

The McCanns and the Tapas 9 had access to the car. The DNA material was not found in the seat, but in the wheel well where it simply cannot be explained by normal circumstances.
 
Btw you mentioned Charlotte Pennington...firstly i think shes away with the fairies - literally. She is another who changed her story big time and every time she would speak her stories would just get better and better. Of course she was supposedly a drunk which could explain this i guess.

Now as for Jane Tanner from this picture here we can see how unlikely it is that she could have been there and not seen by either Jez or Gerry. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/Sioux_girl/apt.jpg In addition bearing in mind that she was wearing flip flops these generally make a noise so i find it impossible that they wouldnt have seen or heard her.

My personal opinion is - that because Jez was walking his baby around the apartments and so Gerry was talking to him while Madeleine was taken out of the other entrance by R o B so that Jez wouldnt see anything . MOO

And yea...at one point they claimed they had locked the doors - another time they said they hadnt. They claimed the shutters had been forced open. They hadnt. They claimed the checks were being done every 15 mins - at one point it seemed impossible to work out how anyone could have kidnapped her cos there always appeared to be someone coming or going but of course that wasnt true either. One weird thing for me..i read one article where the McCanns got to the bar at 8.55 and they was the last ones there and yet - in the article Jane Tanner did when she returned to England she said she was devasted cos she was late going to meet her friends and saw someone carrying something that MAY have been a child carried under a blanket. However she wasnt sure it was a child. Now as we all know over the weeks she changed her mind - not only was it now a child but it wore Madelines pyjamas. Regarding the photofits - under the Portugese law if a person is kidnapped they dont print photos as they believe this puts the person at risk. Ok fair enough I dont agree with this but - thats the way they do things. The McCanns after one of there conversations with Gordon Brown said that if the PJS didnt release a picture of this "suspect" they would sue the pjs ( yea yea i know they like threatening to sue). And so the famous egg man picture was published. Now..Aprilsky says that wasnt Tanners fault - however ...if they didnt think this looked like her descriprion WHY did they not complain to the media or to Brown or through Clarence Mitchell saying the picture wasnt accurate?

Incidentally did Gerry ever sue that publication who said he wasnt the father of Madeleiene?

Btw regarding the English police - they was there from the very beginning. However it was a Portugese criminal matter and not a British one so it was only right they should be in charge of the case. It has been reported that the Police in Portugal from the Leicestershire Police agreed with the findings of the Pjs but that certain police at Leicestershire police werent doing as they should have been. Personally i think the Pjs would have done better had they done all investigating themselves and left the British cops out of it - MOO
 
Tanner drew a map, which is part of the final report, that clearly shows there is no way she walked by GM and JW and they didn't see her. According to that map, she would have had to be invisible.

The PJ became more "vocal" about the help from the British after the McCanns started saying the PJ was doing nothing. At the time I thought it was a really smart move on the PJ's part, because then none of the evidence could be refuted. Turns out maybe it wasn't so smart after all as the British seem to be much more aware of political pressures.

I wish Maddie would be found, where ever she is and would come home.

Salem
 
Claycat said:
This is the one I was thinking of, April4sky. Von Aesch committed suicide, so if he was involved in Madeleine's case, we will probably never know.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2208999.ece
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Hi Claycat,

I think the PJ only concluded it wasn't the same man.

This doesn't change the fact that a witness reported seeing the white van parked and someone behaving suspiciously at the same place both dogs lost the scent.

This man was never traced.
 
Respectfully snipped...
Salem said:
Tanner drew a map, which is part of the final report, that clearly shows there is no way she walked by GM and JW and they didn't see her. According to that map, she would have had to be invisible.

I wish Maddie would be found, where ever she is and would come home.

Salem
Click to expand...
Hi Salem,

Regarding the Lane and the conspiracy theory.

I think we have been caught up in the would they - wouldn't they - have seen each other saga, and lost sight of the "why" as to their statements.

If as you think they conspired together wouldn't they have agreed to say they saw each other in the lane. That's the only thing that would make sense if they were conspiring! An easy conspiracy to get right.

The fact is they said they didn't all see each other - and the only reason that makes sense is they told the truth. IMO

I agree regarding Madeleine - I wish it too, and the sooner the better.
 
Texana said:
If you look at the FSS statement about the results of testing on the DNA material found in the blood found in the Renault, it is very significant. They stated that the material could not be conclusively identified as Madeleine.

That was the phrasing. However, what was left out was the significant and incredibly incriminating fact that it could not be ruled out that the DNA was Madeleine's. In fact, 15 out of 19 markers were identified as Madeleine's and the twins were ruled out.

The FSS statement was very bland and general but it cleverly left of the reverse logic that is obvious to anyone--It could not be identified conclusively because of the degraded material but nor could Madeleine be ruled out.

And the chances of the blood coming from anyone else? Less than 1 in 1000.

The McCanns and the Tapas 9 had access to the car. The DNA material was not found in the seat, but in the wheel well where it simply cannot be explained by normal circumstances.
Click to expand...
Thanks Texana for the info. Do you or others happen to have a link to the FSS statement?
 
april4sky said:
Respectfully snipped...Hi Salem,

Regarding the Lane and the conspiracy theory.

I think we have been caught up in the would they - wouldn't they - have seen each other saga, and lost sight of the "why" as to their statements.

If as you think they conspired together wouldn't they have agreed to say they saw each other in the lane. That's the only thing that would make sense if they were conspiring! An easy conspiracy to get right.

The fact is they said they didn't all see each other - and the only reason that makes sense is they told the truth. IMO

I agree regarding Madeleine - I wish it too, and the sooner the better.
Click to expand...


Or maybe Gerry was just trying to save himself. I personally think Jez mucked up there plans somewhat. How could Gerry say he saw Jane if Jez didnt and not just that there was another witness who said Jane wasnt there,

As for the only thing that makes sense is that there telling the truth - in actual fact there stories change way to much to be telling the truth. MOO
 
April i have a question because your posts are totally contradicting themselves :D

LgJTMap-1.jpg


So should we believe the yellow route was the correct route which Jane alleged the alleged kidnapper took - or should we believe your post from 220 which states this " This is something I read recently which seems to have been forgotten…..

....Early on Portuguese sniffer dogs (not eddie & keela) traced a path from the front door, turned left and left again through between block 5 & 6 and then down the alley. They crossed the road to the car park opposite the tapas and stopped there.

There were two sniffer dogs. Both dogs were taken independently to sniff. They both followed the exact same route.

Interesting where they stopped was the same place someone had reported a white van with someone behaving suspiciously" ."


Thing is this route ( Marked in red) is entirely different to the one Jane alleges the kidnapper went.

So which version are you actually trying to tell us is the truthful one? If the dogs both sniffed the exact same route - then sorry but Jane is lieing MOO
 
april4sky said:
Respectfully snipped...Hi Salem,

Regarding the Lane and the conspiracy theory.

I think we have been caught up in the would they - wouldn't they - have seen each other saga, and lost sight of the "why" as to their statements.

If as you think they conspired together wouldn't they have agreed to say they saw each other in the lane. That's the only thing that would make sense if they were conspiring! An easy conspiracy to get right.

The fact is they said they didn't all see each other - and the only reason that makes sense is they told the truth. IMO

I agree regarding Madeleine - I wish it too, and the sooner the better.
Click to expand...

Actually April - I think they are lying - either GM or JT. I'm inclined to say it is JT because GM has a witness that was standing there with him - JW. Maybe they just didn't get their story straight? I don't know. What I do know it that Jane Tanner drew a map in her own hand, dated and signed it. That map clearly shows that she walked right by GM & JW, on the same side of the street, on the same sidewalk. They would have had to have seen her.

I agree in that I find it difficult to believe all of the T9 are in on this. But I am certain that at least 4 of them are and maybe the others are just loyal friends that don't know the whole story. However, it seems by now, that at least one of them would grow a conscious (sp?) or, at the very least, begin to question what happened that night.

Why will no one stand up for Maddie? 9 people that couldn't get their stories straight? One (in my opinion) credible witness that tells us that GM & KM did not check their children every 1/2 hour, while the T9 give us such a complicated pattern of coming and going it would have been impossible for Maddie to have been snatched.

Until GM & KM step up to the plate and tell the truth, and say something that would exonerate themselves, I will continue to believe that they know exactly what happened and they are not talking because they don't want to lose the twins or their livelyhoods.

Salem
 
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