Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #19

[haden]

Haden, SF in last week's "Sexta às 9" asked HCW if they had any evidence CB was inside 5A and his answer was "I can't tell".

That's all we know and not enough to claim there's such evidence IMO.

But wasn't it reported in the papers that they actually can place him in the apartment, or was I dreaming?

 

[redplanet]

Not nitpicking, I'm aware of the comment HCW made regarding the call. But your comment was -


He hasn't said that. Yes the call would be important if they can identify the other party but they have also made appeals for british holiday makers to review their photographs for example, which could be equally important. And they are appealing for people who know the interiors of his homes. Without knowing what other evidence they have, we don't really know what else could clinch the case for them and what is really crucial. Even if they do place CB via the call he could still claim to have been in the area for another purpose, it's not a clear indicator of guilt and HCW even says they would still need more evidence (in addition to placing CB on the phone).

Plus we don't know what the original eyewitnesses like JJ and TS have already told police, do they already confirm it is CB they saw? Is the phonecall just another further nail in the coffin?

I'm just saying the phonecall may not be the be all and end all of their case. Anything that places CB at the crime scene would be fine, the call is just one angle they are looking at. And ultimately if there is a video or something of MM and they can find that location, the phonecall and placing CB in the area may become a moot point if something more significant is unearthed.

The 'crucial' thing would be indentifying a direct link with CB to MM - forensic evidence, a body, the place she was taken, a murder weapon. Something along those lines.

I am hoping that Wolters has the power to ask the PJ to reinterview female witness TS, and to ask the OG to reinterview female witnesses JW and JJ and her sister.

 

[MENDEL]

But wasn't it reported in the papers that they actually can place him in the apartment, or was I dreaming?

HCW's words for "Sexta às 9" were his last's so far and are quoted as source even in current German press. If any press said they do have, then they are misinterpreting information available as SF asked and he didn't answer @2.57. If you find any link please let know for analysis.

 

[Anxala]

Anxala, I am wondering, are you doubting that CB is responsible for MM's abduction? I know all this about innocent until proven guilty but I am just trying to understand your rationale.

I'm neither doubting nor not doubting, just wondering how CB can be publicly named as the abductor/murderer of MM when his whereabouts on the evening in question appears to still not be confirmed and/or is still dependent upon (the unlikelihood of) someone coming forward to place him there.

That's all I'm trying to get my head around.

 

[Anxala]

Haden, SF in last week's "Sexta às 9" asked HCW if they had any evidence CB was inside 5A and his answer was "I can't tell".

That's all we know and not enough to claim there's such evidence IMO.

And also, if they have evidence that places him inside the apartment, then that would negate the need for this caller to come forward and would have moved the investigation on very significantly.

 

[mrjitty]

Anxala, I am wondering, are you doubting that CB is responsible for MM's abduction? I know all this about innocent until proven guilty but I am just trying to understand your rationale.

IMO it has nothing to do with BARD standard which after all only applies in the courtroom and not to the public

Quite simply the prosecutor has not presented primafacie evidence to support the idea he is guilty

 

[MENDEL]

And also, if they have evidence that places him inside the apartment, then that would negate the need for this caller to come forward and would have moved the investigation on very significantly.

Correct. HCW once said putting CB at PDL from 7.31pm to 8.01pm through call lead would grant an arrest warrant. Then putting him inside 5A would be more than enough to grant the warrant and none has been issued so far. So the only possible sound conclusion is that there's no such evidence (neither call connection nor apartment's).

 

[C.greek]

They must have other evidence (the material evidence HCW mentioned ) to publicly name him as a suspect. Otherwise, this naming would not have been possible IMO. So, they are only trying to find the other pieces of the puzzle (the phone call, the interior of his houses, etc) in order to build a very strong case against him that can stand in court and find him guilty. Otherwise, how would the German prosecutor be allowed to name CB? HCW said that he cannot answer whether CB can be placed in the apartment. What if they have found images or other visual material of the apartment that night in CB's stack of images/videos but cannot prove that he took them? IMO that is the whole point. They have confessions(from 2 witnesses at least), they have this material evidence-whatever that is- but they need to be certain to prove that CB took these images/videos or whatever they have found. Otherwise, he could just say that he got them from the Dark web. Jmo

 

[C.greek]

IMO it has nothing to do with BARD standard which after all only applies in the courtroom and not to the public

Quite simply the prosecutor has not presented primafacie evidence to support the idea he is guilty

Would HCW need to do that to the public when naming CB(or any other) as a suspect?

 

[snowpea666]

Correct. HCW once said putting CB at PDL from 7.31pm to 8.01pm through call lead would grant an arrest warrant. Then putting him inside 5A would be more than enough to grant the warrant and none has been issued so far. So the only possible sound conclusion is that there's no such evidence (neither call connection nor apartment's).

Or they could be waiting on more? maybe more people etc ? x

 

[Newthoughts]

Correct. HCW once said putting CB at PDL from 7.31pm to 8.01pm through call lead would grant an arrest warrant. Then putting him inside 5A would be more than enough to grant the warrant and none has been issued so far. So the only possible sound conclusion is that there's no such evidence (neither call connection nor apartment's).

Doesn't it depend on when they can put him in 5A? There are accounts of MM crying on 1st and 2nd.

Any evidence he was in the appt - whatever it is - might not prove he was in 5A on 3/5

 

[redplanet]

Doesn't it depend on when they can put him in 5A? There are accounts of MM crying on 1st and 2nd.

Any evidence he was in the appt - whatever it is - might not prove he was in 5A on 3/5

HB believes that the man who attacked her had also intruded into her apartment on a previous day or night (or maybe on previous days or nights plural???)
Therefore IMO it is important to consider whether the intruder at MM's apartment may have also intruded maybe during both the preceding two evenings (1st and 2nd)???

 

[mrjitty]

Would HCW need to do that to the public when naming CB(or any other) as a suspect?

As I have said before, I find the approach contrary to principles of criminal justice, but it seems HCW is able to do this under defined circumstances in german law. But the question was a different one.

Seeing as how no evidence of CBs guilt has been presented, I see no particular reason to believe in his guilt or otherwise, until the prosecutor lays out charges and a prima facie case.

 

[Tekno]

HB believes that the man who attacked her had also intruded into her apartment on a previous day or night (or maybe on previous days or nights plural???)
Therefore IMO it is important to consider whether the intruder at MM's apartment may have also intruded maybe during both the preceding two evenings (1st and 2nd)???

Or an intruder two weeks prior to the McCann’s arrival?

 

[MENDEL]

This case is unprecedented in may things. Hired whistle-blower inmates. Prime suspects who can't be charged. Giving the press contradictory statements. And so on.

 

[MENDEL]

The only information from missing files I can find that could have only been known by perpetrator are MM's dental records. Weird for him to talk about unless she had quite strange teeth.

11. Page 57 (PJ RefXVII) Request to provide Madeleine McCann's dental records. A copy of the dental records was obtained on 15th May 2008, and is enclosed. A statement producing these as an exhibit is also enclosed.​

MISSING PAGES FROM THE FILES

 

[C.greek]

As I have said before, I find the approach contrary to principles of criminal justice, but it seems HCW is able to do this under defined circumstances in german law. But the question was a different one.

Seeing as how no evidence of CBs guilt has been presented, I see no particular reason to believe in his guilt or otherwise, until the prosecutor lays out charges and a prima facie case.

I followed a different case here for a while about Libby in Hull. I don't remember the public being given any evidence of the perpetrator's guilt. I am new to this websleuthing but it seems to me that evidence is only presented to the courts and the lawers when somebody is charged? Maybe I am wrong and naive but I don't see any reason for the prosecutor to lie when they say they have material evidence of MM's death for which they think CB is responsible. And the fact that they are not charging him yet might only have to do with proving his guilt to the court BARD. Jmo

 

[C.greek]

HB believes that the man who attacked her had also intruded into her apartment on a previous day or night (or maybe on previous days or nights plural???)
Therefore IMO it is important to consider whether the intruder at MM's apartment may have also intruded maybe during both the preceding two evenings (1st and 2nd)???

HB who?

 

[mrjitty]

I followed a different case here for a while about Libby in Hull. I don't remember the public being given any evidence of the perpetrator's guilt. I am new to this websleuthing but it seems to me that evidence is only presented to the courts and the lawers when somebody is charged? Maybe I am wrong and naive but I don't see any reason for the prosecutor to lie when they say they have material evidence of MM's death for which they think CB is responsible. And the fact that they are not charging him yet might only have to do with proving his guilt to the court BARD. Jmo

The Libby case follows a traditional arc

The suspect was arrested and interrogated within the strict time limits, and then charged with crimes. He was bought before the Courts and remanded in custody, because strong evidence case was presented.

That is very different to the current case where the accused is not arrested in relation to MM, not interrogated, and not charged.

 

[C.greek]

The Libby case follows a traditional arc

The suspect was arrested and interrogated within the strict time limits, and then charged with crimes. He was bought before the Courts and remanded in custody, because strong evidence case was presented.

That is very different to the current case where the accused is not arrested in relation to MM, not interrogated, and not charged.

He was charged for other crimes than Libby's murder and he was sentenced for those. The charge for Libby's murder came much later. There is a big difference though which might explain the different process- CB is already in jail. Also the charge for Libby's murder came after PR was already in jail. So there is no real *rush* to either interrogate or have CB in custody since he is already in prison and not a danger to the public. Is there another case where the perpetrator was already in jail when charged for another crime? If so, what process was followed?