Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #2

[JediJim]

Are they just putting 2 and 2 together just to get a result? Is this just circumstantial evidence, a German paedophile in the region when Madeleine disappeared?
I would doubt there’s any physical evidence?...
So strange that they have recently discovered two vehicles and two phone numbers.. what made them discover this now after 13 years?

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks -- I did wonder.

Having now read his case review -- it makes some interesting points, but IMO it doesn't seem to predict this present turn of events quite so much as he seems to think it does. Maybe the true-crime audience has just evolved to become more sophisticated in its own knowledge of investigative procedure? Here's the direct link for those who are interested:

https://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/w.../Review-of-Madeleine-McCann-Investigation.pdf

I'll settle for saying this guy is a bit of an access merchant. So his conclusions tend to match the views of those who give him access.

In general I think you get better insights from the top websleuths posters than you do from these true crime experts

 

[ashmc79]

That particular man was Irish and had collected his own child from the onsite crèche that was available (ironically) he went back to Portugal at the time ofaof Maddie's disappearance and made a statement and was eliminated

 

[Mrs Marple]

Are they just putting 2 and 2 together just to get a result? Is this just circumstantial evidence, a German paedophile in the region when Madeleine disappeared?
I would doubt there’s any physical evidence?...
So strange that they have recently discovered two vehicles and two phone numbers.. what made them discover this now after 13 years?

My guess would be tip off.

Regarding Tannerman,this was officially closed off as a lead in the 2013 Crimewatch appeal


Agree re vehicle. The extent of the search, the timeframe of her going missing, he got away sharpish.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

I don't know where that comment came from, but, once published, all the less-reputable media sources publish it as fact. Personally, altho I may look at, for eg, the DM, I usually find another, more reputable paper to quote from. I like the Guardian, also the Telegraph. Unfortunately, many of the reputable sources are behind paywalls now.

Reputable sources do not publish something unless they can verify where it comes from and they will publish exactly who stated that information. Most tabloids or aggregator media just throw all the information together into a narrative, and make no effort to disentangle where all the bits and pieces of info come from. It's not always the case, sometimes the DM will publish a story making it clear the info comes from, eg 'a former acquaintance of the accused', etc.

MOO

The Telegraph has been the only paper so far to mention the windfall following MM’s disappearance. That wasn’t in the statement so I’m assuming that the British press are privy to new information from Police that we’re not.

 

[Owlpellet]

So as CB was dealing drugs I guess he would have been able to give something to all the M children to keep them asleep.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

My guess would be tip off.

Regarding Tannerman,this was officially closed off as a lead in the 2013 Crimewatch appeal


Agree re vehicle. The extent of the search, the timeframe of her going missing, he got away sharpish.

They haven’t only just discovered them. They’ve been investigating the link for years - I assume they’re going public now because of the threat of impending appeal and release.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Wonder if Joana Cipriano will be looked at again. If he was active in 1996 in the area...

 

[mrjitty]

Short answer, yes, they found him. This is documented in the short Wikipedia article on the case, which has media links for everything.

That crimewatch revelation was far more significant than the media realised at the time and it also vindicated PJ testimony at Lisbon

PJ said all along that the tapas timeline could not be correct and wanted a reconstruction.

The tapas timeline only allows a few minutes for an abduction whereas the Met explode the timeline and set the abduction as much as 45 mins later

But what that really means is the testimony of tanner and friends set the investigation down a false path for years

Why she did that and why the group never clarified things is a great mystery to me

Were they just confused?

Were they worried about personal liability?

But in any case, you can see clearly now how they diverted the investigation down a rabbit hole leading to Murat etc

 

[sleuth-d-]

Short answer, yes, they found him. This is documented in the short Wikipedia article on the case, which has media links for everything.

they found a guy.
i would be interested to know if tanner was ever asked to confirm the guy [6'5"] was who she saw. and agreed that it was the guy she originally described as 5'7".

 

[Owlpellet]

Wonder if Joana Cipriano will be looked at again. If he was active in 1996 in the area...

Yes, I was wondering about that. And if not him perhaps an older acquaintance in his phone book.

Although that was in the north of the country

EBM

 

[Deleted member 268067]

I find this really interesting. From the Telegraph...

In a television appeal on Wednesday in the hunt to prove Brückner had abducted Madeleine, police showed a photograph of the distinctive wooden beam and asked if there was anybody out there who recognised it.

If you’d been in his house, you’d know about it - so why ask about who would recognise the beams unless they’re directing that at people that might have seen videos of inside his home?

 

[Owlpellet]

I find this really interesting. From the Telegraph...

In a television appeal on Wednesday in the hunt to prove Brückner had abducted Madeleine, police showed a photograph of the distinctive wooden beam and asked if there was anybody out there who recognised it.

If you’d been in his house, you’d know about it - so why ask about who would recognise the beams unless they’re directing that at people that might have seen videos of inside his home?

It's the beam victims were thought to be tied to in his torture videos of the young woman and maybe others. I've been trying not to look closely at it.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

Also from the Telegraph, a detailed description of him.

“His face is pockmarked, he has nicotine-stained teeth and chewed fingernails,” claimed the newspaper, “He has scars on his right leg (both thigh and hip), and birthmarks all over his body.” He spoke Portuguese and Franconian, a northern Bavarian dialect of German, said the newspaper.

Weren’t we looking for a pockmarked man from one of the witness statements?

 

[Mrs Marple]

That crimewatch revelation was far more significant than the media realised at the time and it also vindicated PJ testimony at Lisbon

PJ said all along that the tapas timeline could not be correct and wanted a reconstruction.

The tapas timeline only allows a few minutes for an abduction whereas the Met explode the timeline and set the abduction as much as 45 mins later

But what that really means is the testimony of tanner and friends set the investigation down a false path for years

Why she did that and why the group never clarified things is a great mystery to me

Were they just confused?

Were they worried about personal liability?

But in any case, you can see clearly now how they diverted the investigation down a rabbit hole leading to Murat etc

Yes the focus became Smithman, at around 10pm, who definitely wasn't Martin Smith's mate Robert Murat.

I think they were a but drunk, very relaxed and just confused. Tanner said she didn't want to say anything in case it upset Kate. It's a pity she didn't translate that as doubt about whether what she had seen wasn't suspicious.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

This is a tighter timeline. We know he has form for fleeing.

“Just as the world was launching the world’s biggest manhunt, the man who is now the prime suspect was clearing out of the Algarve. It is thought he moved back to Germany. Certainly by 2008, records show he was again back in court, this time convicted of drug offences in Germany.”

 

[JediJim]

Ah yes- Tannerman. I had a quick google. A GP who picked his daughter up from the crèche. Apparently he’d been playing tennis with Gerry so why didn’t Tanner recognise him? Assuming she saw him play tennis that is..
Playing devils advocate, it’s possible that Tanner actually did see the abductor. It may well have been Madeleine. Bearing in mind Tanner only had a glimpse of the man in the dark. She wouldn’t be looking for anything out of the ordinary either.

 

[Owlpellet]

This is a tighter timeline. We know he has form for fleeing.

“Just as the world was launching the world’s biggest manhunt, the man who is now the prime suspect was clearing out of the Algarve. It is thought he moved back to Germany. Certainly by 2008, records show he was again back in court, this time convicted of drug offences in Germany.”

I think one of the papers reported he returned to Germany about 6 months later. But yes, soon after and who knows whereabouts he was in between. But just my memory of what was reported.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

It's the beam victims were thought to be tied to in his torture videos of the young woman and maybe others. I've been trying not to look closely at it.

Exactly. But the only way you might recognise that beam without knowing who’s house it is is by having seen it on video.

 

[JediJim]

Ah yes- Tannerman. I had a quick google. A GP who picked his daughter up from the crèche. Apparently he’d been playing tennis with Gerry so why didn’t Tanner recognise him? Assuming she saw him play tennis that is..
Playing devils advocate, it’s possible that Tanner actually did see the abductor. It may well have been Madeleine. Bearing in mind Tanner only had a glimpse of the man in the dark. She wouldn’t be looking for anything out of the ordinary either.