Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[MENDEL]

PJ failed a lot. But not enough to compromise search for truth IMO. If this happened in a small US county that would be the same thing. Only in movies you have pristine crime scenes when high ranking investigators come.

 

[Dlk79]

Maddie cops need huge breakthrough by Jan or Christian B case could ‘evaporate’

No real new information in the latest article and no direct quotes, just posting in case anyone is interested.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Maybe their testimonies will come back to bite them, rather than appear all professional and uptight and nice middle class polite Brits, just tell the effin truth for the record. Expecting Police to pick up pieces of misleading info. And here's a debate about the case 13 years on 12 million quid later... we all just want it solved

When all is said and done The truth will always remain the same. 13years later and the McCanns version has never wavered. And that is not because they are accomplished liars. It is because the truth will withstand everything else. I don't believe that GM went over to the apartment with the sole purpose of checking on the kids, pottered about the place on arrival but did not check on the kids.. that version makes no sense! And regarding the money.. MM parents have spent £13 million searching for her. But who wouldn't?? X

 

[SuperdadV8]

Maddie cops need huge breakthrough by Jan or Christian B case could ‘evaporate’

No real new information in the latest article and no direct quotes, just posting in case anyone is interested.

"The Sun has learnt."

Where do the ten weeks come from?

 

[C.greek]

^ That's at the absolute crux of my arguments here.

The PJ were absolutely slaughtered (and continue to this day to be slaughtered and ridiculed) by the English media in particular, for the direction in which their investigation went, with no concession whatsoever or allowance for the 'ambiguity' of the information they were presented with at the time and which they were obliged to work with.

It really concerned me back in 2007 and it still really concerns me now.

I think we are missing the point here. We are not really discussing the parents' faults or mistakes, or how the Portuguese police are ridiculed or not in the media. We are supposed to discuss CB and his involvement in MM's case. Everybody made mistakes in the investigation. How can we help though to pinpoint CB now 13 years after? I thought that was the crux of this forum and especially this thread on CB.

 

[Anxala]

I think we are missing the point here. We are not really discussing the parents' faults or mistakes, or how the Portuguese police are ridiculed or not in the media. We are supposed to discuss CB and his involvement in MM's case. Everybody made mistakes in the investigation. How can we help though to pinpoint CB now 13 years after? I thought that was the crux of this forum and especially this thread on CB.

But surely we can only do that by taking into account the historic details of the case and placing them alongside the revelations of this new investigation, to see if they continue to make sense and throw light on what might have happened?

Every single thing about the past investigation is absolutely relevant to the current investigation since the latter is entirely centred around the evening of the 3rd May 2007 and all concerned on that evening.

I just care that this case is objectively and conclusively resolved.

I hope you do too.

 

[snowpea666]

I think we are missing the point here. We are not really discussing the parents' faults or mistakes, or how the Portuguese police are ridiculed or not in the media. We are supposed to discuss CB and his involvement in MM's case. Everybody made mistakes in the investigation. How can we help though to pinpoint CB now 13 years after? I thought that was the crux of this forum and especially this thread on CB.

I agree, many mistakes were made, we all make them, I think it is the fact we want the truth which will hopefully end in a conviction and some small justice for MM, the only reason this is in topic is FF saying 90 secs is all CB would have had to do the deed, we know the timeline was not 100% understandably, I would find it hard to tell you minute by minute what I did this afternoon!! never mind being chill, few glasses of vino then something so horrendous happening, FF however is saying no way could his client do this in that time! very frustrating indeed.

 

[Chiatos]

Is it true then that HB relayed information to LE 'of the crime scene that only the guilty party would know of'?? If that is the case, since all LE do keep something back, always.. is that not enough to never give up on those in question? The pressure needs to be on HB if anybody.. CB would not have confessed to him, told specifics from the scene But not told him of who his accomplice was, if at all he had 1. If all's there is is a phone ping from hours before the actual crime took place AND 1 man, namely HB, knowing info of the crime scene as it were, then I know who I would be working on for sure! X

There is no source indicating that HB is the one who disclosed that CB has/had 'perp knowledge'.
It could have been CB himself disclosing such info in a chat room. Or perhaps images found in his camera or whatever.

 

[C.greek]

I agree, many mistakes were made, we all make them, I think it is the fact we want the truth which will hopefully end in a conviction and some small justice for MM, the only reason this is in topic is FF saying 90 secs is all CB would have had to do the deed, we know the timeline was not 100% understandably, I would find it hard to tell you minute by minute what I did this afternoon!! never mind being chill, few glasses of vino then something so horrendous happening, FF however is saying no way could his client do this in that time! very frustrating indeed.

So we are doubting the last alleged sighting by GM to see whether a perpetrator would have had more time than those 90 seconds? If the German prosecutors just need proof BARD that CB was in the area that night I think it doesn't really matter whether GM saw her or not at 9.05 pm.

 

[C.greek]

But surely we can only do that by taking into account the historic details of the case and placing them alongside the revelations of this new investigation to see if they continue to make sense and throw light on what might have happened?

Every single thing about the past investigation is absolutely relevant to the current investigation since the latter is entirely centred around the evening of the 3rd May 2007 and all concerned on that evening.

The current investigation seems to only center on getting the BARD evidence that CB was close to the apartment that evening. Since we don't know what material evidence they have, and since they have explicitly said they just need that, I would imagine the past investigation is meaningless now.

 

[mrjitty]

So we are doubting the last alleged sighting by GM to see whether a perpetrator would have had more time than those 90 seconds? If the German prosecutors just need proof BARD that CB was in the area that night I think it doesn't really matter whether GM saw her or not at 9.05 pm.

Personally I think it matters hugely - but it depends on how HCW intends to tie CB to the abduction

You have to consider what HCW will have to prove in terms of factual matrix. One of the things is that he will have to introduce evidence that MM was in fact in her bed sleeping. The defence case will be SODDI

So anything which opens up the opportunity for "Tannerman" to strike makes conviction harder, unless HCW has something post abduction which ties CB to MM

 

[Scorpiette]

The current investigation seems to only center on getting the BARD evidence that CB was close to the apartment that evening. Since we don't know what material evidence they have, and since they have explicitly said they just need that, I would imagine the past investigation is meaningless now.

What is BARD please?

 

[snowpea666]

So we are doubting the last alleged sighting by GM to see whether a perpetrator would have had more time than those 90 seconds? If the German prosecutors just need proof BARD that CB was in the area that night I think it doesn't really matter whether GM saw her or not at 9.05 pm.

Don't know! However 5mins would blow FF idea out the water, but I think 90sec it is possible to do the deed, with this case Iam sure would most agree nothing is what it seems !!

 

[C.greek]

What is BARD please?

Beyond any reasonable doubt

 

[C.greek]

Personally I think it matters hugely - but it depends on how HCW intends to tie CB to the abduction

You have to consider what HCW will have to prove in terms of factual matrix. One of the things is that he will have to introduce evidence that MM was in fact in her bed sleeping. The defence case will be SODDI

So anything which opens up the opportunity for "Tannerman" to strike makes conviction harder, unless HCW has something post abduction which ties CB to MM

This *unless is what I am thinking here and from the beginning actually when we first heard of CB. This would also explain why they are not interested in the past investigation.

 

[MENDEL]

This *unless is what I am thinking here and from the beginning actually when we first heard of CB. This would also explain why they are not interested in the past investigation.

C.greek, in a court of law you can't choose which investigations can be used and which ones can't. Things aren't that easy for either party.

 

[C.greek]

I just care that this case is objectively and conclusively resolved.

I hope you do too.

This sounds a bit passive aggressive unless I don't get the tone of the message right. There is no need to question this in this thread, is there?

 

[C.greek]

C.greek, in a court of law you can't choose which investigations can be used and which ones can't.

Sure but we are not in the court and the Germans have not seemed up to now to be interested in that. This is what makes me think that they have evidence post-abduction. JMO

 

[MENDEL]

We're not in a court of law, but you can't claim anyone is a criminal with a theory that doesn't pass scrutiny by a judge. I have no conspiracy against anyone based on his shocking criminal record. Just want to know what happened factually. I hope they have such post-abduction evidence or they will face great challenges as no piece of evidence can be ignored in court without a sound foundation.

 

[C.greek]

We're not in a court of law, but you can't claim anyone is a criminal with a theory that doesn't pass scrutiny by a judge. I have no conspiracy against anyone based on his shocking criminal record. Just want to know what happened factually. I hope they have such post-abduction evidence or they will face great challenges as no piece of evidence can be ignored in court without a sound foundation.

Definitely, I don't think they will go to court without solid evidence. What I originally thought about this forum was that we were supposed to 'help' the investigation, not doubt it. HCW has already said they have material evidence that CB is the perpetrator. They only need to place him at the exact point that night before possibly charging him. Whether GM saw MM at 9.05 does not appear to be something they are concerned with. And if he didn't see her what difference would it make to the charge? She was definitely put to bed that night.