Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[redplanet]

BKA once mentioned that possibly other(s) may know the eventual concealment location, therefore, hypothetically, is it possible that the perp himself doesn't?

 

[enjy15]

The meeting is said to have taken place “recently” at the Lisbon HQ of the Policia Judiciaria (PJ), the force heading the Portuguese probe into the three-year-old's disappearance, reports daily newspaper Correio da Manha.

The article in Correio da Manha is behind a paywall. This is pretty much the only news available for free:
ADN não coloca suspeito no apartamento, mas há provas de envolvimento em outros crimes.
DNA (traces) do(es) not place the suspect inside the apartment, but there is proof for his involvement in other crimes.
PJ junta polícias inglesa e alemã em encontro secreto para encontrar Maddie

With the proof for his involvement in other crime, is that in relation to MM, like a similar crime (such an Inga) which makes CB fit the profile or CB is involved in a network/ring that they have proof links to MM?

 

[axelcruze]

With the proof for his involvement in other crime, is that in relation to MM, like a similar crime (such an Inga) which makes CB fit the profile or CB is involved in a network/ring that they have proof links to MM?

At the moment this is all speculation and no proof of anything other than a missing child from an apartment

 

[axelcruze]

Here is how this case reads to me..
We have proof of CB phone in the very area for at least half an hour on 03/05/07.
We have proof of MM death.
We have proof that CB killed her.
We do not have enough proof to charge him!
Have I missed something with regards to changes in the law?? Maybe proof has a different meaning in Germany because there was a time when proof was classed as real evidence. Not all murderers are convicted through their DNA. Sometimes the law must rely on other sources to get a conviction ie,. reliable testimony, CCTV etc- this often proves a case. It was a huge mistake to release his name as a suspect thus allowing the whole world to dig up the dirt on CB 'bad charachter' history. It jeapordised the whole case, because even if his past cannot be mentioned in court, it has to be said that it is hard to remain neutral given what we know about him and so everybody has a personal opinion of CB way before a possible trial.
It just seems the entire investigation has gone full circle on the botched roundabout!
And MM deserves real justice for whatever truly happened to her. X

At the moment there is no proof of MM death or that CB dud anything related to it, otherwise he would have been charged. They've been working on the CB suspect for two years a d found nothing otherwise there would be a charge.... HCW needed the media involvement because needs more info from public on CB which could help the case otherwise there's not enough to charge. Not sure what you don't understand about this x

 

[Victoria Chambers]

At the moment there is no proof of MM death or that CB dud anything related to it, otherwise he would have been charged. They've been working on the CB suspect for two years a d found nothing otherwise there would be a charge.... HCW needed the media involvement because needs more info from public on CB which could help the case otherwise there's not enough to charge. Not sure what you don't understand about this x

I do not understand WHY BKA held a press conference and said Live on TV that there was concrete proof of MM death and that CB killed her! They actually did say them words. I never dreamt it. X

 

[SuperdadV8]

The live-press conference has been held by Braunschweig prosecuters and not BKA.

HCW stated at first, that they assume MM is dead and the suspect involved.

By the time HCW went more concrete by statements of material evidence and that prosecuters are convinced to have the right person in focus, because some clues point out to him. So far so good.

Since June 2020 HCW repeatedly stated, that the prosecuters need more evidence to build up a charge at a court or get an arrest warrant, that only a judge can authorise at last.

HCW always told about lack of forensics and appealed for footage or info of the unknown caller.

Even if there might be some strong evidence that they have got the right suspect, it has to be bulletproof at a court. By the time of authorising the arrest warrant, the solicitors are authorised to get all investigation files to guarantee a defence.

So if there are many confessions, discussions about MM at webchats or whatever, proximity to PDL one hour before MM went missing, maybe footage of a dead MM without a recognizable suspect either, there is still NO relevant crime history of the suspect, that points out to murder so far.

Just a small example:

Judge: Why did you boast around of knowing about her disappearance or even getting rid of the victim after abusing it?

Suspect: Well, i was boozed a lot at that time and also had a drug problem. So i often used to tell dumb stories then. Even if i told someone before, that i lived in Portugal near PDL that time and just because of that fact, i was interrogated by the police in 2013 of that case but without results. So i use to be kidding around a lot, when i drink, especially in anonymity of the web. Who doesn't? Maybe i was a pervert in the past yes, but i'm not a murderer, Mr. Judge! If the girl has been killed, as you tell me, where is the body then?"

And that's it! As a prosecuter you can have hundred confessions. If you can't substitute them with other hard evidence or a confession to the prosecuters, that doesn't guarantee any sentence!

But all of this could change very quickly, with forensics or footage or even a unlikely confession of a accomplice. A body linked to a place the suspect frequented before or his DNA on it, or a video showing a modus operandi that can be linked to the suspect like special ways of torturing or other sick stuff would make a succsessful charge more than just coincidently, if it will be combined with the many confessions to different recipients.

And due to the fact, that they made two of his usually used rides public, they should be working on a movement profile. That profile should lead them someday to a body maybe. I could imagine, that they will start another fresh appeal with some more info they have.

It also could put some pressure on the suspect.

Again, very similar to the MN case! Proximity to children-institutions, child *advertiser censored* found, even writing poems in paedo-chats about killing boys....no warrant! MN was arrested of a confession after an interrogation at last. For that interrogation, you need a lot of info to corner the suspect succsessfully.

JMO!

 

[altojack]

You are probably correct.

I do not know German law either but in most countries if there is no solid evidence the jury (judge) has to find them not guilty (of course)

But the biggest problem (worry) is the suspect cannot be charged again for the same crime , even if very good evidence shows up later.

So in a twisted logical way it may be best not to charge him now.

Putting my sensible head on and reading your reply has made me sit up. I already knew that a suspect can only be charged once, that knowledge must have been in the back of my head.

 

[MENDEL]

The name of the suspect wasn't released by the prosecuters but by the tabloids, shortly after HCW's announcement.

Someone must have told tabloids. They don't use to guess...

 

[Victoria Chambers]

The live-press conference has been held by Braunschweig prosecuters and not BKA.

HCW stated at first, that they assume MM is dead and the suspect involved.

By the time HCW went more concrete by statements of material evidence and that prosecuters are convinced to have the right person in focus, because some clues point out to him. So far so good.

Since June 2020 HCW repeatedly stated, that the prosecuters need more evidence to build up a charge at a court or get an arrest warrant, that only a judge can authorise at last.

HCW always told about lack of forensics and appealed for footage or info of the unknown caller.

Even if there might be some strong evidence that they have got the right suspect, it has to be bulletproof at a court. By the time of authorising the arrest warrant, the solicitors are authorised to get all investigation files to guarantee a defence.

So if there are many confessions, discussions about MM at webchats or whatever, proximity to PDL one hour before MM went missing, maybe footage of a dead MM without a recognizable suspect either, there is still NO relevant crime history of the suspect, that points out to murder so far.

Just a small example:

Judge: Why did you boast around of knowing about her disappearance or even getting rid of the victim after abusing it?

Suspect: Well, i was boozed a lot at that time and also had a drug problem. So i often used to tell dumb stories then. Even if i told someone before, that i lived in Portugal near PDL that time and just because of that fact, i was interrogated by the police in 2013 of that case but without results. So i use to be kidding around a lot, when i drink, especially in anonymity of the web. Who doesn't? Maybe i was a pervert in the past yes, but i'm not a murderer, Mr. Judge! If the girl has been killed, as you tell me, where is the body then?"

And that's it! As a prosecuter you can have hundred confessions. If you can't substitute them with other hard evidence or a confession to the prosecuters, that doesn't guarantee any sentence!

But all of this could change very quickly, with forensics or footage or even a unlikely confession of a accomplice. A body linked to a place the suspect frequented before or his DNA on it, or a video showing a modus operandi that can be linked to the suspect like special ways of torturing or other sick stuff would make a succsessful charge more than just coincidently, if it will be combined with the many confessions to different recipients.

And due to the fact, that they made two of his usually used rides public, they should be working on a movement profile. That profile should lead them someday to a body maybe. I could imagine, that they will start another fresh appeal with some more info they have.

It also could put some pressure on the suspect.

Again, very similar to the MN case! Proximity to children-institutions, child *advertiser censored* found, even writing poems in paedo-chats about killing boys....no warrant! MN was arrested of a confession after an interrogation at last. For that interrogation, you need a lot of info to corner the suspect succsessfully.

JMO!

I do understand everything you have said and yes, his history is damning. We know that CB was just 1 of 600 sexual predators in that area at the time. I just don't think that alcohol/drug induced false bragging, bar confessions to known criminals or poems in a web chat come anywhere near to being 'concrete proof' - I honestly think, and this is despite how I feel towards child/sex attackers, that it is wholly irresponsible for LE to name CB alongside the 'concrete proof' statement before they actually did have enough evidence to charge him. There are perhaps some people who will give him the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty. But there are also other people who now know CBs entire criminal history and would end his life without thinking twice about it.. I for one, would not want him living next door to me tbh.
He will probably have to spend the rest of his life in hiding. LE should know better imo X

 

[SuperdadV8]

Someone must have told tabloids. They don't use to guess...

Of course and i could imagine that prosecuters had been aware of that. But in a legally-split-hair-view of the prosecuters, they had just that in mind, without being able to be accused by a civil charge maybe...

 

[SuperdadV8]

I do understand everything you have said and yes, his history is damning. We know that CB was just 1 of 600 sexual predators in that area at the time. I just don't think that alcohol/drug induced false bragging, bar confessions to known criminals or poems in a web chat come anywhere near to being 'concrete proof' - I honestly think, and this is despite how I feel towards child/sex attackers, that it is wholly irresponsible for LE to name CB alongside the 'concrete proof' statement before they actually did have enough evidence to charge him. There are perhaps some people who will give him the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty. But there are also other people who now know CBs entire criminal history and would end his life without thinking twice about it.. I for one, would not want him living next door to me tbh.
He will probably have to spend the rest of his life in hiding. LE should know better imo X

You are obviously right dear Victoria. And yes, that case is very special. The suspect has been declared as extremely dangerous by german authorities before, but they had to retreat from following him, by crossing dutch borders on his way to italy.

In a lot of other cases i would follow the opinion, that pointing out on him is debateable. According to his past and proven urges, blanking out legal opinions by although being a "jurist", my conscience is clean. It isn't that big problem that he has been made public so far.

Even if MM can't be linked to him at last, he isn't a profit to society, what HE has proved since the nineties! Violence, abuse of the smallest ones, maybe rape of the weak, maybe (!) murder.

He isn't the typical scapegoat! The current suspect is as dangerous to society, as an area fire!

Blame me, but that's my honest opinion! My sympathy is out to the prosecuters that know someone did a horrible crime for sure, but in a legal way the (important!) rules making it terrible hard to tie the knot! This case isn't the first case in crime history, that is handled that way or can't be treated otherwise, to buld a chance for solving it!

Some tricks haven't been made just for solicitors IMO.

 

[Anxala]

At the moment this is all speculation and no proof of anything other than a missing child from an apartment

Agree. For me, all they still have at this late stage of the investigation is a missing child, the circumstances of whose disappearance - no concrete evidence of a burglary gone wrong or a planned abduction - is as much, despite all the 'we believe this, we know that' LE assurances, as much an unresolved mystery now as it was back on the 3rd May 2007.

The only 'concrete' is the little missing child.

 

[Lilly b]

Does anyone actually know the details of the freak tractor accident that killed Euclides Monteiro?? I know it's random, but can't actually find any info on it, thanks in advance everyone

 

[Anxala]

Even if MM can't be linked to him at last, he isn't a profit to society, what HE has proved since the nineties! Violence, abuse of the smallest ones, maybe rape of the weak, maybe (!) murder.

He isn't the typical scapegoat! The current suspect is as dangerous to society, as an area fire!

Absolutely, Superdad.

I hope, whatever the outcome as far as MM is concerned, that they can tie him concretely and conclusively to enough other historical serious criminal activity to keep him where he is for a long time.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Does anyone actually know the details of the freak tractor accident that killed Euclides Monteiro?? I know it's random, but can't actually find any info on it, thanks in advance everyone

I'm sure it was a bizarre incident in which he ran himself over so to speak. Possibly was flung from it and then it went over him. It was a hard to believe story! X

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I read a comment on a social media thread which says CB has a fb page in the name of Homeier! See for yourselves X

 

[Lilly b]

I'm sure it was a bizarre incident in which he ran himself over so to speak. Possibly was flung from it and then it went over him. It was a hard to believe story! X

Can you say where you found that info?

 

[tedtink]

I'm more than curious as to why next year is being mentioned.
Also the mention of British Lawyers by FF a few weeks ago.
I wonder if it's to do with Brexit and the negotiation of extradition laws?
I did a little research and the only article I can find is in The Times - Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article.
Maybe the plan is to go to trial in UK?

Yet recent developments in the Madeleine McCann case highlight what the UK stands to lose if no deal is struck on future criminal law enforcement co-operation — and how Brexit has already affected arrangements around the European arrest warrant.
In January, Germany, Austria and Slovenia stated that they may refuse to extradite their nationals to the UK. This means that Christian Brückner, the Bavarian-born suspect in the McCann case, will be unlikely to be extradited to the UK unless miracle progress is made on an extradition system to replace the existing scheme.

Dying hope for a post-Brexit extradition deal | Law | The Times

 

[SuperdadV8]

I'm more than curious as to why next year is being mentioned.
Also the mention of British Lawyers by FF a few weeks ago.
I wonder if it's to do with Brexit and the negotiation of extradition laws?
I did a little research and the only article I can find is in The Times - Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article.
Maybe the plan is to go to trial in UK?

Yet recent developments in the Madeleine McCann case highlight what the UK stands to lose if no deal is struck on future criminal law enforcement co-operation — and how Brexit has already affected arrangements around the European arrest warrant.
In January, Germany, Austria and Slovenia stated that they may refuse to extradite their nationals to the UK. This means that Christian Brückner, the Bavarian-born suspect in the McCann case, will be unlikely to be extradited to the UK unless miracle progress is made on an extradition system to replace the existing scheme.

Dying hope for a post-Brexit extradition deal | Law | The Times

IMO interesting, but brexit or not, by now i do not see any need for an extradition of a german citizen that maybe has committed a crime in any other country than the U.K., to the U.K. after leaving the European Union. Where do you see any context?

The british victim?

 

[C.greek]

I'm more than curious as to why next year is being mentioned.
Also the mention of British Lawyers by FF a few weeks ago.
I wonder if it's to do with Brexit and the negotiation of extradition laws?
I did a little research and the only article I can find is in The Times - Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article.
Maybe the plan is to go to trial in UK?

Yet recent developments in the Madeleine McCann case highlight what the UK stands to lose if no deal is struck on future criminal law enforcement co-operation — and how Brexit has already affected arrangements around the European arrest warrant.
In January, Germany, Austria and Slovenia stated that they may refuse to extradite their nationals to the UK. This means that Christian Brückner, the Bavarian-born suspect in the McCann case, will be unlikely to be extradited to the UK unless miracle progress is made on an extradition system to replace the existing scheme.

Dying hope for a post-Brexit extradition deal | Law | The Times

That's quite interesting, thanks tedtink. I am wondering though, if no brexit happened, would the Germans have to extradite him to the UK? it also reminded me the portuguese law that you cannot charge anyone for a crime 14 years ago? So the timing here could be crucial. The Germans might want him for themselves...thus by 2021 they would not need to extradite him either to the UK or Portugal