Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[C.greek]

IMO interesting, but brexit or not, by now i do not see any need for an extradition of a german citizen that maybe has committed a crime in any other country than the U.K., to the U.K. after leaving the European Union. Wherw do you see any context?

The british victim?

Yes of course british victim

 

[enjy15]

I read a comment on a social media thread which says CB has a fb page in the name of Homeier! See for yourselves X

I can’t find any account? Can you share any more info or disclose where you found this info please?

 

[SuperdadV8]

Yes of course british victim

IMO that could just be a fact to mention, if the crime would have been one in U.K. too and the suspect is located there, or it happened in the Kingdom...

If that is the fact, he could be extradited and charged in the U.K. due to european laws.

IMO a "no deal" Brexit would lead to the fact, that no prosecution of CB in the U.K. would be possible that easy, due to the circumstances! He could flee to U.K., just not to be charged....?!

It would be new to me, that the origin of the victim guarantees an extradition of the suspect between the countries of the european union. But maybe i am wrong about it.

By the way, Germany doesn't extradites german suspects of crimes that may have been commited in the U.K. to there anymore...

 

[tedtink]

IMO that could just be a fact to mention, if the crime would have been one in U.K. too and the suspect is located there, or it happened in the Kingdom...

If that is the fact, he could be extradited and charged in the U.K. due to european laws.

IMO a "no deal" Brexit would lead to the fact, that no prosecution of CB in the U.K. would be possible that easy, due to the circumstances! He could flee to U.K., just not to be charged....?!

It would be new to me, that the origin of the victim guarantees an extradition of the suspect between the countries of the european union. But maybe i am wrong about it.

By the way, Germany doesn't extradites german suspects of crimes that may have been commited in the U.K. to there anymore...

There may not be anything in it - maybe me just putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 8! , but would like to see the full Times article for more info.

 

[SuperdadV8]

There may not be anything in it - maybe me just putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 8! , but would like to see the full Times article for more info.

I understand your point of view, but i never read about an extradition of a spanish suspect that killed a german victim in Italy to german authorities for example.

The fact will be, that a no deal brexit could lead to limited extradiction possibilites from U.K. located perps of any origin, because european arrest warrants couldn't be carried out anymore that easy....

 

[Dlk79]

I'm more than curious as to why next year is being mentioned.
Also the mention of British Lawyers by FF a few weeks ago.
I wonder if it's to do with Brexit and the negotiation of extradition laws?
I did a little research and the only article I can find is in The Times - Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article.
Maybe the plan is to go to trial in UK?

Yet recent developments in the Madeleine McCann case highlight what the UK stands to lose if no deal is struck on future criminal law enforcement co-operation — and how Brexit has already affected arrangements around the European arrest warrant.
In January, Germany, Austria and Slovenia stated that they may refuse to extradite their nationals to the UK. This means that Christian Brückner, the Bavarian-born suspect in the McCann case, will be unlikely to be extradited to the UK unless miracle progress is made on an extradition system to replace the existing scheme.

Dying hope for a post-Brexit extradition deal | Law | The Times

It is an interesting point raised and one that I have pondered too. The existing rules of the European Arrest Warrant will cease to apply to the UK come the end of this year. It is curious why HCW is adamant nothing will happen with the case this year and it did cross my mind whether there might be some kind of link.

HCW spoke previously of having 90% of the evidence they need. He has said several times that this evidence (whilst concrete) is not enough to press ahead with a charge based on the threshold required in the German judicial system. The question is, would that same evidence be enough to go to trial in the UK system?

Extradition is not a straightforward process, but the idea that CB could be charged in a UK court is not beyond possibility. The country where the crime took place is not so relevant, we've seen that already by the fact Italy signed off CB's extradition to Germany for DM's rape in Portugal. And extraditions to the country of the 'victim' can happen.

I remember the Gary McKinnon case where the US sought his extradition for hacking Government websites even though he was British and committed the crime whilst in the UK. On that case, the extradition was first granted by the UK government, then later blocked on the basis of the human rights act that McKinnon was mentally ill and might kill himself if extradited, so it is a very complex matter.

In this CB/MM case it would come down to whether Germany is willing to grant the extradition of CB (assuming SY did want to try CB for the murder) and whether it is allowable withing the framework of whatever extradition agreement replaces the EAW post-brexit.

All just ponderings and could be wide of the mark, but I do wonder what German LE will opt to do if they reach that point where they feel they have to drop their case. Will they then pass on all of their "secret" evidence to SY? With £12m spent so far on OG, you'd think they'd press for that info to continue their lines of inquiry at the very least. That's assuming they don't already know. It's a very delicate and political subject and so even if they were already aware of the evidence, I could see plenty of plausible reasons why all parties might prefer to keep that fact a secret for the time being.

 

[peanutJelly]

I promise not to keep repeating this, but IMO it is still a possibility they have clear evidence that is not admissible in court

 

[Dlk79]

I promise not to keep repeating this, but IMO it is still a possibility they have clear evidence that is not admissible in court

It's certainly possible, or at least some of what they 'know'. That story about the mole prisoner trying to elicit info from CB for example is a strange one, where did that come from? Does CB know perhaps that he has said something while inside maybe, co-erced by an undecover op, and it ties in with what LE claim to know? Have LE been recording/monitoring him anyway in the hope that he gives up some crumb that they can chase down that would be admissable in court? Or discovered something they didn't have the correct legal authority to access?

I'm not sure what Germany's policy is on covert surveillance/bugging etc. In most countries the threshold is based on having exhausted certain other viable options. I know that Germany is very stringent on privacy though (hence why there is almost no Google street view in the country) and obtaining a bug (or something similar) whose evidence could be used in a court of law might be a harder thing to obtain there.

The inadmissable evidence argument would make sense of why BKA can't divulge their evidencial knowledge while still ascerting absolute guilt, but I can also see other reasons why they would not do so even if it was admissable. The idea that they would just tell the world all their evidence before taking CB to trial is just ridiculous anyway.

Some of the comments I've seen here slagging off German LE and saying they have "no" evidence against CB is totally naive. They obviously have a lot more evidence that they're holding back to come out with such a strong attack in this high profile case. What would be their motive to do so otherwise?

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Can you say where you found that info?

This is from memory. I can only have read it in a Tabloid at some point. I'm sure he was working alone at the time X

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Didn't the tabloids report that some evidence was apparently found on CB bus that was discovered hidden at the box factory? I'm certain LE would have had a warrant for the factory. But did they know CB had a bus at the time and would they have needed a seperate warrant to search upon finding it?
Although, I can't see LE in Germany planting a mole into jail or searching unwarranted property for the particular evidence they need, if once obtained it could not be used against him? They know their own rules of law better than anybody. They would not make that mistake I wouldn't of thought.
Also, The Netherlands were looking into CB too weren't they? X

 

[Arnie M]

I promise not to keep repeating this, but IMO it is still a possibility they have clear evidence that is not admissible in court

Sometimes I think that too ..... some stuff buried in the dirt under dead dog bones ... a friend having drinks in a pub heard CB say something .... a phone registered to him in a resort close to his home

In court all a defense lawyer would have to do is ask how that proves kidnapping and murder.
Prosecutors would need a lot more than that to convict ... and they know it.

 

[Lilly b]

• Portuguese detective says 'Christian B' was dismissed as a suspect in 2008 - but a discussion 'years later' on an online forum about Maddie and her abduction was brought to the attention of police;

From daily mail 4th June, is this where they have got the details, I know its not new info, but read it again, did this discussion have all the details???

 

[Newthoughts]

IMO that could just be a fact to mention, if the crime would have been one in U.K. too and the suspect is located there, or it happened in the Kingdom...

If that is the fact, he could be extradited and charged in the U.K. due to european laws.

IMO a "no deal" Brexit would lead to the fact, that no prosecution of CB in the U.K. would be possible that easy, due to the circumstances! He could flee to U.K., just not to be charged....?!

It would be new to me, that the origin of the victim guarantees an extradition of the suspect between the countries of the european union. But maybe i am wrong about it.

By the way, Germany doesn't extradites german suspects of crimes that may have been commited in the U.K. to there anymore...

If my understanding of Brexshit is correct he could flee to the UK without our LE being informed or knowing anything about it as we also fall out of various criminal databases about the movement of criminals. So the UK will be doubly attractive to him once he gets out of prison there without further charges

 

[misty48]

BKA once mentioned that possibly other(s) may know the eventual concealment location, therefore, hypothetically, is it possible that the perp himself doesn't?

Based on the lack of PJ actively searching & digging in & around CB's known dwellings on the Algarve, it is possible he was unaware of the final deposition site.
CB's alleged comment "pigs eat human flesh too" is suggestive of a disposal method he was told about rather than one he utilised himself imo.

 

[Chiatos]

Based on the lack of PJ actively searching & digging in & around CB's known dwellings on the Algarve, it is possible he was unaware of the final deposition site.
CB's alleged comment "pigs eat human flesh too" is suggestive of a disposal method he was told about rather than one he utilised himself imo.

Are you suggesting CB had an accomplice?

 

[redplanet]

Based on the lack of PJ actively searching & digging in & around CB's known dwellings on the Algarve, it is possible he was unaware of the final deposition site.
CB's alleged comment "pigs eat human flesh too" is suggestive of a disposal method he was told about rather than one he utilised himself imo.

And I don't recall hearing of any requests from BKA to PJ to search the grounds of his former residences in Portugal.

 

[redplanet]

And when PJ searched some wells (near a road to a beach where CB is said to have sometimes van-camped), BKA appeared to not be on board IMO.

 

[misty48]

Are you suggesting CB had an accomplice?

He didn't need an accomplice to break into 5A & abduct Madeleine.
He didn't need an accomplice to murder a helpless Madeleine.
If the crime was as cut & dried as a one-man job, CB would have been questioned a long time ago imo.

 

[redplanet]

Just requoting this from the BKA appeal in Jun 2020. It is important IMO. What might be the method how BKA know this? And how did the "other persons" come to know the course of the crime?
---
"Furthermore, there is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left. We explicitly ask these persons to contact us and provide information."

 

[TrisRey]

Maddie suspect Christian B 'had accomplice during child sex crime in Portugal'

Maybe same guy that raped HB.