Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[Zuleika]

There are photos showing that a young child can slide this design of door. They are labelled 558.

Yet this mother said this child would not be able to. Mentioned a heavy curtain . This was in respect of people suggesting a woke and wandered theory .

 

[tedtink]

For example :

Witness who helped re-launch Madeleine McCann investigation says Christian Brueckner is guilty | Daily Mail Online

Busching gave the statement in 2017 after being arrested while trying to smuggle migrants from Greece to Italy, it is claimed. He had a previous conviction for a 2011 assault on a beggar in Italy.

While under investigation, Busching was put in touch with Operation Grange - the Met Police team investigating Madeleine's disappearance - where he gave them details about Brueckner.

According to a Greek police report, Busching's evidence was 'given voluntarily and without monetary or other consideration'.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12638463/witness-mccann-guilty-christian-b/

Busching and another friend Manfred Seyferth knew Christian B from when they all lived in Praia da Luz, the Portuguese resort where Madeleine was on holiday.

Busching’s own previous convictions include assaulting a female beggar in Brindisi, Italy, in 2011.

Six years later he was arrested after trying to smuggle migrants between Greece and Italy.

We discussed this at length a while ago on the thread and resolved that HB had left prison before contacting LE.
If you go to thread #17 post number 1016 you'll see that C Greek translated the Directorate of International Police Cooperation
SIRENE Department notice which states this.

 

[Lilly b]

There are photos showing that a young child can slide this design of door. They are labelled 558.

So if she did just leave the apartment by the sliding patio doors, not that I believe it, surely she would of left it open

 

[Zuleika]

Yes.

real fast was taken

So if she did just leave the apartment by the sliding patio doors, not that I believe it, surely she would of left it open

Of course ,the gates too .

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

(...)We discussed this in length a while ago on the thread and resolved that HB had left prison before contacting LE.

It doesn't matter if he was in prison after or before, as long as he did produce those allegations against CB on 2017 then I do believe that those allegations are what the German Police also have to further "link" CB with Madeleine (apart of course of other known indications like cell phone calls, fact that CB was in PDL, fact that he was at least intended to be question over Madeleine case way back in 2013, etc) ...

 

[redplanet]

@tedtink
"Or he had dropped the blanket on the way back from the creche and was hurrying back trying to find it."
is IMO incorrect.
Because IMO the pink blanket carried by JTo is visible in the colour sketch produced by JTa. It is folded (not unfolded, not hanging down) and is visible on top of the 2yr-old's chest IMO.

 

[Dlk79]

Hi all !

DISCLAIMER : - I don't have any intention to comment on the Madeleine case in general (as I don't have any interest on it at all) and I don't have intention as well to comment on Christian Brueckner with relation to Madeleine as well. I'm here just to post my opinion on the Hans Christian Wolters allegations.

DISCLAIMER 2 : - I do have some interest in Christian Brueckner as I want to RULE HIM OUT as having any involvement on another missing children "case" that I'm reviewing. I will not make any claims about my believes of his involvement on the Madeleine case as it's outside of the scope of my personal investigation. I will post my believes about what Hans Christian Wolters have on him.

I will not post a link to all media articles where what I'm about to state is mentioned as one can simply browse this thread to find them out.

Hans Christian Wolters claims that he have evidences that Madeleine is dead and that CB is the one who killed. He came to this conclusion in 2017.

- He doesn't know if the Portuguese police and/or the English police have the same evidences that he have on CB.

- He does know that the evidence that he have might not be enough to accuse CB of the crime so he is asking for public assistance.

- He apparently is not questioning CB and he is waiting to gather more clues so what is this all about ? Quite simple !!!

Here : - Witness who helped re-launch Madeleine McCann investigation says Christian Brueckner is guilty | Daily Mail Online

On 2017 Helge Busching was himself having issues with justice and decide to reveal stuff about CB to the police. This allowed German police to "investigate" CB further to (at least attempt) charge him with other crimes.

Whatever Hans Christian Wolters have is NOT a physical item like Madeleine cloths found on CB properties and it's NOT something like exclusive movies/photos related to Madeleine found on searches made on the CB context. If that were to be the case other police forces couldn't have that evidence (that HCW claim that other polices can also have) and even if it were something downloaded from the internet like abuse material from pedophile sites (and no - I don't believe at all on the existence of Madeleine content on that sort of place) then HCW could talk about that without no issues as the material found would "not change" no matter what CB would tell, meaning that whatever Hans Christian Wolters it must have some sort of "declaration" or testimonial that are word of some people only and not unalterable evidences. That is why he will not tell. Let's assume that Helge Busching told the police exactly how CB killed Madeleine. This is the sort of "evidence" that Hans Christian Wolters might have - or so I believe.

Now Hans Christian Wolters would LOVE to search all places related to CB not only because of MADELEINE but also because of ALL OTHER CASES that CB might be involved in. It might not even be about MADELEINE at all and it might not even be related to missing children.

When news about CB did appear on the media relating him to SEVERAL missing children cases I could "exclude" him immediately from several of those cases without even having to think allot but making this link DO HELP Hans Christian Wolters and why ? Simple !

If you "paint" the image of CB as a monster that abduct and kill children and if you can link him to the most (in)famous missing children case ever - MADELEINE - then people will co-operate ! Why ? Hans Christian Wolters needs to search all that he can about CB even on the context of other crimes but he can't as he doesn't know (outside of German) where CB did live and stay, etc ... But if he can get people to ALLOW HIM TO SEARCH then he might get evidences if not to charge on the Madeleine case it can be used to link and charge on other cases. Publicity of the Madeleine case do allow Hans Christian Wolters to reach a bigger audience and OUTSIDE Germany. If Portuguese people or even people from other countries start to ask German police (on this case Hans Christian Wolters) to search CB old properties and vehicles because they don't want to be living in a place where a body of a child might be buried then Hans Christian Wolters can search the place (if the current owners do ask for it) and eventually gather stuff on CB that might link him with other crimes, cracking those crimes up.

Whatever Hans Christian Wolters have is not related to material gather during 2016 search as well. Hans Christian Wolters "declared" that only in 2017 they did conclude that Madeleine did die and that CB was the killer. It have to be related to Busching accusations. I'm NOT AWARE of any re-examination on "Inga files" for Madeleine DNA comparison or in other words items fond on CB places like child clothing / swimsuits - I'm not aware if they were re-tested to see if there were some DNA traces of Madeleine but even if they were it would be an exclusive evidence that other police forces wouldn't have for sure and it wouldn't matter to publish that as CB wouldn't be able to alter his statement of facts.

For me HCW method serves several objectives and apart from all that was stated it will "agitate waters" as well. A stagnated case will not bring anything new. When those statements of HCW were made the interest on the Madeleine case did rise up again. Same for other missing children cases. It's better to have people talking and investigating and remembering over this matter rather than having no clues and no place to go further. Agitating waters it's better. Stagnated waters is bad. People will go no-where.

Madeleine McCann's parents believe probe into German suspect is 'beyond bizarre'

Speaking to the Sunday Mirror in June, Mr. Wolters, who admits he does not have enough evidence to charge Brueckner, said: “We don’t try to speak because it’s not the right time. We don’t believe he will say he did it.

“We think we have 90 per cent evidence. If he knows what this is, he can try to change his story.”

Again if Wolters were to have something "palpable" and "material" like photos/videos/solid evidence what would matter if CB would "try to change his story" ? He is arrested, he will go no-where and couldn't change a picture or a video or the fact that DNA were found here or there or couldn't change the fact of having stuff that could incriminate him. Now what HE CAN CHANGE is words and stories and declarations so what Wolters is "hiding" it have to be something stated by witness.

At any rate it doesn't matter because as long as people will co-operate Wolters might be able to catch "other crimes" committed by CB. If he doesn't find anything he can just say that he doesn't have enough to charge and that's it. The strategy looks like that just harvest for clues in ALL CRIMES that CB might be related to at the same time with the help of people.

An interesting take, but I would note the following -

- Regarding HCW's comment about not knowing if the other police forces have the same evidence, that needs to be taken with a bucket-full of salt. He may not know whether some of the more minor evidence has been shared but he knows damn well what evidence they definitely don't have. He said outright at the start of the investigation they didn't have some of their evidence. This makes the other points you later assert (like the evidence can't be a photo/video etc since there's no way SY could have that) somewhat invalid IMO.

- You say HCW came to the conclusion that MM is dead and that CB killed her in 2017. But that's not quite correct. Twice he's been asked that question in interviews and both times he said it was in the last 2 years, which means mid 2018 or later.

- Regarding whether the secret evidence is what HB has told them. Unlikely. HB actually gave this information to British police first, who then passed on the details to the Germans. This was all in 2017, so again, not the evidence HCW talks about from 2018. Scotland Yard and Operation Grange already know what it is that HB is claiming and yet they do not deviate from their "missing persons" line. HB also claims to have told PJ about the confession too.

- Regarding CB being able to change his story, it's important to consider HCW has more than a singular piece of evidence. So it's not necessarily this piece of evidence he is talking about when he mentions CB changing his story. But even if it was, the comment could fit with most scenarios. For example, if the evidence was a photo of MM found on one of his hard drives, CB's original "story" might have been he knows nothing about MM, but faced with the knowledge that they have found the photo, he could "change his story" to say someone else gave him the photo etc.

 

[tedtink]

It doesn't matter if he was in prison after or before, as long as he did produce those allegations against CB on 2017 then I do believe that those allegations are what the German Police also have to further "link" CB with Madeleine (apart of course of other known indications like cell phone calls, fact that CB was in PDL, fact that he was at least intended to be question over Madeleine case way back in 2013, etc) ...

I think it goes without saying that HCW will take some leads from HB's statement.
HCW said that it was within the last 2 years that he became aware of MM's death.
HB spoke to LE in 2017, so that's quite a difference in terms of investigating time imo.

 

[redplanet]

Yet this mother said this child would not be able to. Mentioned a heavy curtain . This was in respect of people suggesting a woke and wandered theory .

A child can IMO easily can go between curtain and door. And a child <4y can slide this design door (photos cited earlier). Therefore it is possible for a child <4y to go to the balcony, IMO it is probably not what happened, but it is possible. But then there was a stairgate

 

[Trivento]

@tedtink
"Or he had dropped the blanket on the way back from the creche and was hurrying back trying to find it."
is IMO incorrect.
Because IMO the pink blanket carried by JTo is visible in the colour sketch produced by JTa. It is folded (not unfolded, not hanging down) and is visible on top of the 2yr-old's chest IMO.

Would point out that in JTa statement..she said the child had no blanket on..did have pink top on though...would fit if JTo was walking back towards East to collect something ...whatever...that may have been dropped to east of 5a area.

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

Ok, fair enough.

 

[redplanet]

Would point out that in JTa statement..she said the child had no blanket on..did have pink top on though...would fit if JTo was walking back towards East to collect something ...whatever...that may have been dropped to east of 5a area.

.
She interpreted the pink on the chest area as pyjama top. It was actually partly blanket (folded, not hanging down) IMO.

 

[Trivento]

.
She interpreted the pink on the chest area as pyjama top. It was actually partly blanket (folded, not hanging down) IMO.

Could well be that and certainly seems plausible that he was headed back over to Millenium for whatever reason eg. to reconnect with rest of family who were bit later leaving there than expected , and he didn’t have the key .

 

[Newthoughts]

A variation of that might be: burglar opens window, child slides lounge door open, goes out.

I always wondered about the drainage works.
A scenario...a burglar (CB or whoever), lifts the children's bedroom window, sees 3 children inside and/or hears one of the parents enter the apartment...so they change their mind and make a hasty retreat. MM wakes up, sees window is open, climbs out in search of parents maybe...falls down hole dug up, unfortunately knocks herself out, so no crying...
BUT,
it sounds like HW is convinced CB has killed MM, and just needs that extra bit of evidence, so I have discounted the above scenario now.

I don't think either scenario is possible for a child as young as MM. Plus the builders would see her straight away.

 

[snowpea666]

It doesn't matter if he was in prison after or before, as long as he did produce those allegations against CB on 2017 then I do believe that those allegations are what the German Police also have to further "link" CB with Madeleine (apart of course of other known indications like cell phone calls, fact that CB was in PDL, fact that he was at least intended to be question over Madeleine case way back in 2013, etc) ...

Prosecutors have 'material evidence' Maddie McCann is dead German prosecutors have claimed there is material evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead. material evidence is real, tangible evidence such as an object, a tape recording, a computer printout or a photograph. It is evidence that the court can examine for itself. Generally, real evidence does not stand alone, and the court will hear evidence from a witness (often an expert witness) explaining the significance or the relevance of the real evidence. Material is a phisical object.

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

(...)Material is a phisical object.(...)

Ok. Honestly I don't believe that the German police do have that sort of evidence but I guess it will be a question of waiting to see if they can charge CB over Madeleine case/link. Personally I do HOPE that they do not have material evidence of Madeleine death (otherwise it would be pretty bad as it would turn CB intro a child killer/murderer and that would complicate things further) but it's just me. Guess time (hopefully) will tell.

Regards.

 

[Trivento]

Ok. Honestly I don't believe that the German police do have that sort of evidence but I guess it will be a question of waiting to see if they can charge CB over Madeleine case/link. Personally I do HOPE that they do not have material evidence of Madeleine death (otherwise it would be pretty bad as it would turn CB intro a child killer/murderer and that would complicate things further) but it's just me. Guess time (hopefully) will tell.

Regards.

A problem if the evidence is just a story from someone is that it's then quite fragile evidence (as well as not being particularly strong evidence..if you could call it evidence at all )...anything could happen to that source-person..accidents/medical issues etc...so delaying action is then quite high risk , although perhaps necessary to get something else "court strength "
Whereas something like photos or videos on digital media could in theory last forever and investigators might then be more relaxed about waiting to see if anything else turns up before charging ,if they think that's necessary , which I think more fits the picture we see unfolding.
Of course anything could happen to the suspect also as time passes..!

 

[redplanet]

Could well be that and certainly seems plausible that he was headed back over to Millenium for whatever reason eg. to reconnect with rest of family who were bit later leaving there than expected , and he didn’t have the key .

Yes I am convinced that when JTo crossed the road eastward he was headed towards Millenium restuarant IMO.

 

[vermisstekindersuche]

It doesn't quite matter.
Assume for example that CB dies in prison today and German Police do have child abuse photos of Madeleine (I'm quite sure they don't have it but let's imagine it) would they reveal later what did they had if the suspect is already dead ?
Same as for another missing children case that I did stumble upon.
Assume that the kid is missing but there are a huge chance that he did drown in the water. Also there is some chance that he was kidnapped by a well known child molester/killer that was living on the area from where the boy went missing. Police doesn't have evidence to charge the suspect and the suspect is already arrested and will serve life sentence for at least some 4 other murderer cases. What would the police do ? Reveal to the parents that there are some possibility that suspect X could have tortured and then killed their son or let things as are now and let the parents believe that their son might simply died from drowning ?
Complex questions. Same as for the kind of evidence that the police do have.

My take for now it's simple, it doesn't matter.

What matters is that whatever they have, if they have something is allowing PEOPLE to talk and allowing for old CB properties to be searched.

As we can see we are at thread #21 just about CB as a Madeleine case suspect. The more CB is investigated the better.

I do wish from the bottom of my heart that police doesn't find anything on him regarding child murdering, that's all. I do wish that badly because if CB were to do what he stated that he wanted to go - kidnap something small and use it for days - that would be ... QUITE BAD ... not only for Madeleine but for all other cases that CB might be linked to.

If CB is not linked to those missing children cases then other options might had happened. All is still open. And in fullness of honesty I don't believe that the long time missing girls are still alive, I do just hope that they did die of some sort of accident even if during an attempt of kidnap rather than figuring out that they were kept/abused for days only to be killed later. If you can no longer recover a child (unlike for example on cases of parental abduction where one parent kidnap a child from the other and normally keep the child alive or as another example the cases of kidnappers that keep the victims alive in "secret places") then the best 2nd option is for the child to have die fast of an accident. Worst case would be something among the lines of what CB described. So again I do wish that he is indeed "clear" even knowing that he was a "molester" one thing is to show himself naked to kids on a park or try to "cuddle" or touch children, another is to kidnap and keep the child somewhere for "using" that child the way he wants. So I'm betting that he wouldn't go so far as kidnapping and killing a child but I guess we never know unless somehow he can be cleared from the specific cases one by one. If not even if he is cleared from some cases there are still a chance that he did kill another child from another case. The more he is investigated the better but if nothing is found that can link him to the missing children cases the better, even more knowing that he would love to keep filming/photos of the victims it's hard to believe that he could kill several children (or even a single one) without leaving some traces like keeping children cloths or making videos/photos of them because that is what he have done is the past. If he did had videos of the woman he did rape there is no reason for him not to have the same sort of content of the children he did abuse. Some photos were found of a child he did abuse so if he were to have done something to other child there would be traces for sure ...

But if police were to found those photos there would be no need to hide (the fact) from the public. CB would know that his USB sticks and memory cards are already with police so if CB do have photos of abuse of victims he know (not downloaded from the net) then CB knows that police do have that content. In other words German prosecutor shouldn't be afraid of CB knowing what evidences they have on him as CB would already know.

Let's say I do rob a bank and hide gold in my basement. Then I'm arrested and police goes to my basement and publish that they did found stuff there. Then they would say on TV that they have evidences that are secret but that they will link me with the robbery of the bank but they can't tell what it is because I might change my version of the story if I know what it is. Got it ? If I'm on jail and I do know that they did raid my basement it's easy for me to assume that they did found my gold.

CB do know police have his camera and cards and photos on usb pens. No need for the police to pretend that they don't have them and CB knows better than anyone what content were on those drives.

Wouldn't make sense if were photos/videos. But then again as long as it's helpful to investigate CB further and hopefully exclude him it's alright with me as long as in the end they come up with a "conclusion" and tell something about their findings.

 

[redplanet]

... and now I realise ... evening meals were included in price, choice of 2 restaurants, one was fully booked, so they ate at the other ... Millenium.

And to complete what tedtink posted about JTo direction being towards Millenium, here is the evidence that only one key was issued to guests per apartment.
FP 2008 statement
"there were 3 of us and only one key"
DP 2008 statement
"there was only one key to the apartment"