Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #28

[mrjitty]

The whole thing is bizarre

I can only think there is something bizarre in the actual facts of the crime to explain all this.

 

[C.greek]

Ddp

 

[C.greek]

The only thing I can think of is that CB, perhaps in his writings, revealed a piece of knowledge about that evening that means his confession wasn't mere fantasy - he had to have been in 5A.

But like you say, these various statements/writings are hearsay/unreliable and thus not enough

If such do exist, acording to the german law these are not unreliable but admissible evidence. The witness statements that is. They were reliable enough to allow the BKA to have a public appeal. Why would this change? They might need more of that.

 

[C.greek]

All in all a hand full of nothing?!
Another doc, another year to come but no "concrete" evidences...

It seems he will be charged for other crimes in the next months. And then? Charge by inherence in MM case? CB's confession?

How "simple" may have been the plan, the act but how can he escaped unnoticed...and how difficult has been to depuzzling this...surreal.

I really do not want to say that again but it is partly the incompetence of two police forces to properly investigate the crime. Jmo

And why do you think witness statements, no alibi, chat logs mentioning MO of the crime and who knows what else is nothing?

 

[Hygge]

I do not know if CB committed Madeleine's crime or not.

But have questions.

The only evidences HCW has are a criminal profile and a call which alleged situated CB in PdL?

If he has better evidence than that, why did he make an appeal for witnesses?

By the way, given data on a suspect (cars, phones, etc) for people to remember is something like constructing a self fulfillment prophecy.

HCW said they have evidence she is dead and I think a call and a profile alone doesn’t make it a murder inquiry

 

[C.greek]

HCW said they have evidence she is dead and I think a call and a profile alone doesn’t make it a murder inquiry

I would agree with this. The concrete evidence could be statements, confessions he made that have been transmitted to the BKA, details CB wrote about in his chats/autobiographical bs which could indeed place him at the crime scene, as well as exposing his MO, and his 2013 statement which could have by now proven false.

 

[C.greek]

The whole thing is bizarre

I can only think there is something bizarre in the actual facts of the crime to explain all this.

Of course a crime against a child is bizarre enough... to say the least

 

[Anxala]

The only thing I can think of is that CB, perhaps in his writings, revealed a piece of knowledge about that evening that means his confession wasn't mere fantasy - he had to have been in 5A.

But like you say, these various statements/writings are hearsay/unreliable and thus not enough

This is why I have no time for these 'shocking new revelations' docs. If they're not adding anything to the sum of what we know courtesy of the BKA - which the latter have more or less now confirmed in their 'nothing new to see here' response - then what's the point of them other than money-making exercises?

Not that I blame them for cashing in since they're only filling the void that is the wide and opportunistically ambiguous news gaps that HCW and the BKA have gifted them with.

It just continues to be such a weird way of conducting a serious investigation.

 

[Pixie Child]

HCW said they have evidence she is dead and I think a call and a profile alone doesn’t make it a murder inquiry

The confession to HB alone may count as ‘material evidence’ that she is dead.

We don’t know the extent of what CB said to HB but we do know that MT is convinced in part because CB liked to brag about his crimes.

 

[C.greek]

This is why I have no time for these 'shocking new revelations' docs. If they're not adding anything to the the sum of what we know courtesy of the BKA - which the latter have more or less confirmed in their 'nothing new to see here' response - then what's the point of them other than money-making exercises?

Not that I blame them for cashing in since they're only filling the wide and opportunistically ambiguous news gaps that HCW and the BKA have gifted them with.

It just continues to be such a weird way of conducting a serious investigation.

That's not entirely accurate. We the public did not know quite a lot from what was presented. The BKA knew these leads and statements of course, since the doc found and spoke with witnesses already interviewed many times by the BKA. this is what they meant- nothing new to the BKA not the public

 

[Hygge]

The confession to HB alone may count as ‘material evidence’ that she is dead.

We don’t know the extent of what CB said to HB but we do know that MT is convinced in part because CB liked to brag about his crimes.

Yes but this would be more than a call and a profile. At least a confession to a friend.
I still think HCW isn’t bluffing by saying he isn’t allowed to tell us what they have, so in my opinion it is something we still do know.

 

[mrjitty]

If such do exist, acording to the german law these are not unreliable but admissible evidence. .

You have this slightly wrong. The reliability of hearsay evidence is the same under either system. It's just in the German system, there is no need to protect the jury from it. The Judge instead decides reliability and weight.

The witness statements that is. They were reliable enough to allow the BKA to have a public appeal. Why would this change? They might need more of that.

We really don't know what evidence HCW has that justified the public appeal.

 

[mrjitty]

The confession to HB alone may count as ‘material evidence’ that she is dead.

RSBM

I agree - especially if they found anything to corroborate aspects of the story.

 

[tedtink]

Yes but this would be more than a call and a profile. At least a confession to a friend.
I still think HCW isn’t bluffing by saying he isn’t allowed to tell us what they have, so in my opinion it is something we still do know.

I think it's a story written by CB that features MM. (Word document/das buch/ previously mentioned)
Probably another money making venture.
HB may have corroborated some passages.
But it could also be explained away as fiction.

JMO

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I really do not want to say that again but it is partly the incompetence of two police forces to properly investigate the crime. Jmo

And why do you think witness statements, no alibi, chat logs mentioning MO of the crime and who knows what else is nothing?

Agree on Police incompetence.
All that you refer is something but still not enough. I would expect something more maybe in line with what you refer on other post.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

RSBM

I agree - especially if they found anything to corroborate aspects of the story.

Yes. Something that tells the same exact story and details that only the killer could know.

 

[C.greek]

You have this slightly wrong. The reliability of hearsay evidence is the same under either system. It's just in the German system, there is no need to protect the jury from it. The Judge instead decides reliability and weight.


We really don't know what evidence HCW has that justified the public appeal.

actually I don't think I have this slightly wrong, as per the below

On opening an investigation in Germany
"The threshold to open an investigation is defined in Section 152 paragraph 2 StPO and provides that there must be sufficient factual indications (zureichende tatsächliche Anhaltspunkte) of a crime for the prosecutor to investigate." p. 21

"Under German law, the threshold to open investigations is rather low. However, mere suppositions are insufficient. The initial suspicion must be based on concrete facts. Such facts may also be based on a rumor or an assertion by a third party that is not completely unfounded, since the verification of certain indications is precisely the task of the investigation procedure. Suspicions can be demostrated, for instance, by testimonies, documentary evidence, or open source material." (p. 28)

https://www.justiceinitiative.org/u...sal-jurisdiction-law-and-practice-germany.pdf


agreed on your second point

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I think it's a story written by CB that features MM. (Word document/das buch/ previously mentioned)
Probably another money making venture.
HB may have corroborated some passages.
But it could also be explained away as fiction.

JMO

Again, my feeling too.
Word docs with autobiographic stories... rapes?! That proved to be real... Murder? Which by inherence turns also real?!

 

[mrjitty]

actually I don't think I have this slightly wrong, as per the below

On opening an investigation in Germany
"The threshold to open an investigation is defined in Section 152 paragraph 2 StPO and provides that there must be sufficient factual indications (zureichende tatsächliche Anhaltspunkte) of a crime for the prosecutor to investigate." p. 21

"Under German law, the threshold to open investigations is rather low. However, mere suppositions are insufficient. The initial suspicion must be based on concrete facts. Such facts may also be based on a rumor or an assertion by a third party that is not completely unfounded, since the verification of certain indications is precisely the task of the investigation procedure. Suspicions can be demostrated, for instance, by testimonies, documentary evidence, or open source material." (p. 28)

https://www.justiceinitiative.org/u...sal-jurisdiction-law-and-practice-germany.pdf

This is for the investigation - not for Trial

 

[C.greek]

This is for the investigation - not for Trial

scroll down a bit and you will see about the evidence for a trial. anything goes.
but that is the whole point of why this case might not reach the trial stage.
enough evidence to open the investigation, enough evidence for the public appeal but maybe not too many circumstantial evidence to be certain CB would be convicted.

moreover, could I please ask as a favour that you add sources to what you are saying, so that interested parties could follow your argumentation.
thanks!