Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #32

[enquirer6]

I have no idea what the likelihood of future prosecution is, but approaching 3 years after the German prosecutors claimed they had concrete evidence CB murdered the victim, one has to at least conclude the current case is not strong.

I also do not find it convincing they are bringing lesser cases first to pave the way for the prosecution of the MM case. That is not how this works. It would obviously be great if they can clear the HB case.

I wonder myself whether the video tape for the crimes seen by his associates is actually the basis the german courts relied upon for the public appeal. One of these cases led to a guilty verdict so perhaps they felt there was sufficient basis to go public to locate and clear more cold cases based on the combo of video and 'informants'

Unsure how you conclude any of that.

Hazel Behan (is alleged!) to have been raped by Brueckner in 2004, 3 years before Madeleine vanished. Brueckner has only just been charged with that offence and is, still, to stand trial.

I have opportunity to see him behind bars as Maddie suspect charged with rape

AN IRISH woman has said she is “delighted” as the chief suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is charged with rape. Hazel Behan, 39, was working as a holiday rep on the Algar…

www.thesun.ie

ETA: German police first began investigating Brueckner as a suspect in Madeleine's disappearance in 2013

when did german police begin investigating brueckner re madeleine mccann? - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

 

[Anxala]

I have no idea what the likelihood of future prosecution is, but approaching 3 years after the German prosecutors claimed they had concrete evidence CB murdered the victim, one has to at least conclude the current case is not strong.

I also do not find it convincing they are bringing lesser cases first to pave the way for the prosecution of the MM case. That is not how this works. It would obviously be great if they can clear the HB case.

I wonder myself whether the video tape for the crimes seen by his associates is actually the basis the german courts relied upon for the public appeal. One of these cases led to a guilty verdict so perhaps they felt there was sufficient basis to go public to locate and clear more cold cases based on the combo of video and 'informants'

At this very late stage, I think you may well be right, that ^ that's the basis upon which HCW announced to the world at large that MM was dead and that CB murdered MM.

I find it horrifying though, that all the 'if you knew what we know, then you too would come to the same conclusion' could have been reliant upon such flimsy and dubiously sourced 'evidence'.

 

[investikater]

At this very late stage, I think you may well be right, that ^ that's the basis upon which HCW announced to the world at large that MM was dead and that CB murdered MM.

I find it horrifying though, that all the 'if you knew what we know, then you too would come to the same conclusion' could have been reliant upon such flimsy and dubiously sourced 'evidence'.

Me too!!!!!!

 

[investikater]

It comes down to practicalities in no body cases.

You can essentially 'know' what happened, but be unable to prove it to BARD standard. e.g in the example above, the snitch gives the intel to clarify the theory, but because he did not know what water the body had been ditched in, the case could not be resolved.

IMO that is likely what has happened here. They have the intel, but not the hard evidence.

My suspicion all along is they thought the intelligence would lead to recovery of the body, or at least some forensics.

In your example, the informant COULD BE LYING.

They lie frequently for all kinds of reasons.

 

[mrjitty]

In your example, the informant COULD BE LYING.

They lie frequently for all kinds of reasons.

The example is from No Stone Unturned if you want to read about the case. The police already knew who did it for other reasons.

What you are talking about is more to do with the evidential practicalities in criminal trials and technical difficulties prosecutors face.

I agree that credibility of informant is difficult. Also prosecutor might not be able to secure the testimony.

These kind of witnesses are often used to secure the hard evidence - e.g on a wire, or to gain intelligence on where the body is. Indeed that is how the case was broken

My theory is this case could be similar. i.e informants gave them a lot of intel about multiple crimes which led to securing hard evidence to bring charges. However in the MM case I think they did not find the critical evidence which is rather obviously the body IMO

 

[mrjitty]

At this very late stage, I think you may well be right, that ^ that's the basis upon which HCW announced to the world at large that MM was dead and that CB murdered MM.

I find it horrifying though, that all the 'if you knew what we know, then you too would come to the same conclusion' could have been reliant upon such flimsy and dubiously sourced 'evidence'.

They must be very certain about it for some reason

 

[Woodburnbay]

They must be very certain about it for some reason

There will be reasons why he has not been brought to courts:

1. He didn't do it and insufficient evidence
2. Whilst he is a suspect, others are not
3. Some of witnesses have refused to attend court as they could be discredited

IMO

 

[mrjitty]

So hard to know

All in all i think it's all academic until/unless they charge him

 

[RichardKimble]

There will be reasons why he has not been brought to courts:

1. He didn't do it and insufficient evidence
2. Whilst he is a suspect, others are not
3. Some of witnesses have refused to attend court as they could be discredited

IMO

It'll start where from where the BKA wish to start, what witness saw CB any where near 5a and carrying a child away. Two witness descriptions of a child being carried only one described as a child fitting the description close to that of Madeleine, that carrier did not fit a description of CB. Some where along the line if CB killed Madeleine then the two came together unless he just happened upon her if she woke and wandered .With a case this complex, a brit allegedly abducted and killed in Portugal by a German suspect means imo a plethora of witness's to interview from these countries if willing, leads to an exhaustive and time consuming investigation.

 

[enquirer6]

The other, and blindingly obvious, thought that occurs, investigating the crime against Hazel Behan v the crime against Madeleine, is that Hazel (thank goodness) survived her ordeal, is an adult, and is able to lend full cooperation into investigating the crime against her, as she has done.

Madeleine?

Well ....

The crime against Madeleine, much more difficult to investigate, and much more time-consuming, for obvious reasons ....

 

[mrjitty]

The other, and blindingly obvious, thought that occurs, investigating the crime against Hazel Behan v the crime against Madeleine, is that Hazel (thank goodness) survived her ordeal, is an adult, and is able to lend full cooperation into investigating the crime against her, as she has done.

Madeleine?

Well ....

The crime against Madeleine, much more difficult to investigate, and much more time-consuming, for obvious reasons ....

BIB

That is exactly what I posted. The publicity generated from them going public led to the victim ID in the HB case, but they did not find the victims in the other 2 rape rape videos, but feel confident to prosecute them anway.

in the MM case, clearly they didn't get a breakthrough sufficient to bring charges (yet)

 

[enquirer6]

BIB

That is exactly what I posted. The publicity generated from them going public led to the victim ID in the HB case, but they did not find the victims in the other 2 rape rape videos, but feel confident to prosecute them anway.

in the MM case, clearly they didn't get a breakthrough sufficient to bring charges (yet)

I'm unsure how you concluded that the current case against Brueckner in respect of Madeleine is not strong?

 

[Anxala]

They must be very certain about it for some reason

And we're back, astonishingly, to speculating about what it is they could have that allowed them to so publicly and damningly name CB!

Based on what they said they haven't got, the only other thing apart from second-hand info from dubious sources remains imo possible imagery (pics/vid) that somehow connect MM to CB, perhaps found on a computer or camera of his. I can't be bothered to go back and look for the quote but I clearly remember HCW saying or implying that material evidence exists that MM is dead.

 

[RichardKimble]

And we're back, astonishingly, to speculating about what it is they could have that allowed them to so publicly and damningly name CB!

Based on what they said they haven't got, the only other thing apart from second-hand info from dubious sources remains imo possible imagery (pics/vid) that somehow connect MM to CB, perhaps found on a computer or camera of his. I can't be bothered to go back and look for the quote but I clearly remember HCW saying or implying that material evidence exists that MM is dead.

October 2021 Wolters is quoted by the Mirror in saying this.

Mr Wolters said they have no idea how she died and no DNA or photo evidence linking the German sex offender to the alleged murder. Addressing Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann, he said: “We are confident we have the man who took and killed your daughter.”

“All I can do is ask for your patience. I personally think a conclusion will be reached next year. We have no body and no DNA but we have other evidence. Based on the evidence we have, it leads to no other conclusion.

“I can’t tell you on which basis we assume she is dead. But for us, there’s no other possibility. There is no hope she is alive.”

Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

Madeleine McCann prosecutors say they have no body and no DNA but other evidence leads to only one conclusion - jailed rapist Christian Brueckner is guilty and could be charged next year

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

A recent article in the Mirror talked of no charges til next year, so from Oct 2021 indicating charges in 2022 to now 2024 by passing 2023.

Madeleine McCann police admit suspect won't be charged this year

Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner won't be charged this year, according to German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters who admits "it’s going to take a lot longer"

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Anxala]

The significant bit is "no...photo evidence linking the German sex offender to the alleged murder."

That still allows for imagery of MM, just not imagery of MM and CB together. That would be what would link them. 'Linking' is the key word here.

This is what HCW said:

TV presenter Sandra Felgueiras, host of the Sexta As 9 programme, asked: "Do you have any material evidence that Madeleine is dead?"

Mr Wolters replied: "Yes."

Maddie detectives have 'material evidence' she is dead but refuse to say more

German paedophile Christian Brueckner is suspected of abducting and murdering Madeleine McCann, who went missing from her family's flat at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz in the Algarve

www.mirror.co.uk

ETA. Just to clarify, all I'm saying is that HCW said he had material evidence. If we're to believe him, and ticking off the material evidence he says he doesn't have, then all imo we're left with is imagery of some form or another that shows a dead MM but not one that can be conclusively linked to CB.

 

[enquirer6]

A recent article in the Mirror talked of no charges til next year, so from Oct 2021 indicating charges in 2022 to now 2024 by passing 2023.

Madeleine McCann police admit suspect won't be charged this year

Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner won't be charged this year, according to German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters who admits "it’s going to take a lot longer"

www.mirror.co.uk

How long did it take the PJ to realise they screwed up in declaring Kate and Gerry arguido/a?

Very clearly, too long.

But they did, eventually, reach the right conclusion.

 

[enquirer6]

posted twice.

 

[Trivento]

I feel for the McCann family with all this uncertainty and slow process .

These delays in the progress of the case are frustrating enough for us “ outsiders “ who follow the situation .. one can only imagine how tortuous it must be for MM’s family , who are the ones that really need to know what is going on .

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The significant bit is "no...photo evidence linking the German sex offender to the alleged murder."

That still allows for imagery of MM, just not imagery of MM and CB together. That would be what would link them. 'Linking' is the key word here.

This is what HCW said:

Maddie detectives have 'material evidence' she is dead but refuse to say more

German paedophile Christian Brueckner is suspected of abducting and murdering Madeleine McCann, who went missing from her family's flat at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz in the Algarve

www.mirror.co.uk

ETA. Just to clarify, all I'm saying is that HCW said he had material evidence. If we're to believe him, and ticking off the material evidence he says he doesn't have, then all imo we're left with is imagery of some form or another that shows a dead MM but not one that can be conclusively linked to CB.

So thinking this through, if the BKA do have a photo of a deceased MM then it must have been recovered from one of CB’s storage devices or a camera/phone. It cannot include any image of CB in the photos. This would be unusual as both HBs, MS and DM have all stated that he filmed himself in the act. It would also have to be a random or random set of photos seperate in terms of EXIF data to other images that did contain CB on the same device.

If the image didn’t come from CB, then how can it be established by HCW that he is responsible - given the points above - it would be a photo of a deceased MM with nothing at all linking it to CB.

What I’m getting at is that I can’t see how there is a photo and that photo doesn’t have a strong enough link to charge CB.

Am I making any sense?