Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[Malleux]

FF said that this was brought up in preliminary hearings, did they therefore jump the gun in assuming rather than waiting.

It was established years ago, before they first extradited him from Italy. FF said he first brought it up last year in a letter to the prosecutors.

 

[RichardKimble]

Jurisdiction had already been established by the Judiciary. It's that decision that the defence have challenged, based on their assetion that the box factory counts as a domicile, despite it not being a registered residence. I think the prosecutors would argue that it having no utilities makes it an unviable permanent place of residence and it was technically illegal to "live" there unless CB were to apply for a change of use. It was a commercial property not a home.

It's a bit like someone turning around and claiming they've stopped living in their house and that they now live in their office in another region so the prosecutors in their home region no longer have Jurisdiction to charge them.

FF said that this was brought up in preliminary hearings, did they therefore jump the gun in assuming rather than waiting.

"The defense already pointed out during the preliminary proceedings that the Braunschweig judiciary should not have local jurisdiction.

"For reasons that are not understandable here, the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig clung to its jurisdiction and thus risked being overturned by the Federal Court of Justice if it were opened. This is very questionable, in particular given the fact that a large number of witnesses would have had to appear in court again (on very incriminating issues) in the event of an annulment.

Madeleine McCann prime suspect may not face charges over her disappearance after German court ruling

Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner may not face charges in Germany over the toddler's disappearance after a German court ruling.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[RichardKimble]

It was established years ago, before they first extradited him from Italy. FF said he first brought it up last year in a letter to the prosecutors.

We've been over this before, the judge or judges in the lower court haven't lifted the charges just because they received a letter from FF, it must hold some water.

 

[Malleux]

We've been over this before, the judge or judges in the lower court haven't lifted the charges just because they received a letter from FF, it must hold some water.

Yes we have. The court have accepted (for the moment) the defence's claim that the box factory can count as a domicile and that CB was technically "living" there based on the fact CB claims he was and that some of his stuff was there to back up that claim. It's not proven though, that is just the opinion formed by the presiding judge. Let's just see what happens in the appeal, which court takes on the cases matters little in the grand scheme.

The point is, the Braunschweig prosecutors were correct to assume the initial jurisdiction because it was not proven that CB was "living" in Saxony, or that the factory should count as a domicile when it was not registered as a residence.

 

[RichardKimble]

Perhaps CB holds incriminating information against him - wouldn’t be surprised if there are a few compromised people in CB’s address book.

Whats the saying, if you lay with dogs you get fleas, or similar.

 

[G-Unit]

Yes we have. The court have accepted (for the moment) the defence's claim that the box factory can count as a domicile and that CB was technically "living" there based on the fact CB claims he was and that some of his stuff was there to back up that claim. It's not proven though, that is just the opinion formed by the presiding judge. Let's just see what happens in the appeal, which court takes on the cases matters little in the grand scheme.

The point is, the Braunschweig prosecutors were correct to assume the initial jurisdiction because it was not proven that CB was "living" in Saxony, or that the factory should count as a domicile when it was not registered as a residence.

You seem very keen on CB being tried in the Braunschweig district, or is that just my imagination? After all, it's the evidence which convicts the criminal, not who presents it.

 

[Malleux]

Whats the saying, if you lay with dogs you get fleas, or similar.

And in CB's case, an appropriate saying could be: "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

If he really has gone around claiming credit for MM's disappearance (as has been alleged) then even if it was just BS, he deserves little sympathy for being called out IMO.

 

[Malleux]

You seem very keen on CB being tried in the Braunschweig district, or is that just my imagination? After all, it's the evidence which convicts the criminal, not who presents it.

It's your imagination, it matters not to me. However, in the interest of the victims, I would probably prefer they would not have to be dragged through the process all over again with a new set of prosecutors if there is no compelling reason to move the trial elsewhere.

As you say, it's the evidence which is important, so why does it really matter where the trial takes place?

 

[Janosch]

Imagine a new prosecutors office take the case.

I think they will ask for all the material HCW has, right?

Imagine the new prosecutors office does not find there enough evidence to prosecute CB.

Or imagine the new prosecutors office says there is enough evidence ...

Just imagining possible future scenarios ... Maybe it will be good that another prosecutors office take the case. It would be just like a second opinion.

 

[Davieson]

It's your imagination, it matters not to me. However, in the interest of the victims, I would probably prefer they would not have to be dragged through the process all over again with a new set of prosecutors if there is no compelling reason to move the trial elsewhere.

As you say, it's the evidence which is important, so why does it really matter where the trial takes place?

As Germany has a federal system of government, it all comes down to German State Law.

 

[Mex]

Imagine a new prosecutors office take the case.

I think they will ask for all the material HCW has, right?

Imagine the new prosecutors office does not find there enough evidence to prosecute CB.

Or imagine the new prosecutors office says there is enough evidence ...

Just imagining possible future scenarios ... Maybe it will be good that another prosecutors office take the case. It would be just like a second opinion.

According to the Olive press it won’t matter where in Germany CB is tried for the five crimes with which he has been indicted. If not Braunschweig the evidence will go with him and HCW considers it is stronger than ever, including a new witness coming to the fore. The evidence is compiled under the auspices of the BKA at police headquarters in Weisbaden.

Two of the Braunschweig prosecution team will ensure the court in Magdeburg has all the help needed. Continuity is thus preserved throughout.

I don’t think CB will walk away from this without being tried. All that his defence team will have gained is a further delay of a few weeks or months. Regrettable for the victims, but better than the nothing it was prior to Braunschweig taking up the duty.

I think Braunschweig should be the venue for any trial, given that they have been working these heinous crimes for years and deserve to take them to conclusion

EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect sex crimes trial will STILL go ahead - Olive Press News Spain

A SEX offences trial of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in Germany has not been cancelled. Despite global headlines to the contrary

www.theolivepress.es

 

[Mex]

DBM

 

[Davieson]

I'm not sure why you ask the question. Don't the judges decide what charges will proceed to trial?

Did CB's lawyers ask to have charges reduced as part of the process or did they go straight for the technicality of jurisdiction when all else had failed?

According to the Olive press it won’t matter where in Germany CB is tried for the five crimes with which he has been indicted. If not Braunschweig the evidence will go with him and HCW considers it is stronger than ever, including a new witness coming to the fore. The evidence is compiled under the auspices of the BKA at police headquarters in Weisbaden.

Two of the Braunschweig prosecution team will ensure the court in Magdeburg has all the help needed. Continuity is thus preserved throughout.

I don’t think CB will walk away from this without being tried. All that his defence team will have gained is a further delay of a few weeks or months. Regrettable for the victims, but better than the nothing it was prior to Braunschweig taking up the duty.

I think Braunschweig should be the venue for any trial, given that they have been working these heinous crimes for years and deserve to take them to conclusion

EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect sex crimes trial will STILL go ahead - Olive Press News Spain

A SEX offences trial of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in Germany has not been cancelled. Despite global headlines to the contrary

www.theolivepress.es

The Prosecutors determine which charges to bring forward to the Court. The Judges determine which charges will go to trial.
If a trial takes place in another State, it will involve different judges and prosecutors who might have different opinions to the original ones.
We shall have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Mex]

The Prosecutors determine which charges to bring forward to the Court. The Judges determine which charges will go to trial.
If a trial takes place in another State, it will involve different judges and prosecutors who might have different opinions to the original ones.
We shall have to wait and see what happens.

Just because Germany is a federation I doubt that will nullify the fact of strong evidence.
I doubt that opinion will be of use when weighed against CB's arrest on the spot in the children's playground by an off duty officer there with her child.

Evidence is evidence. What I think will work to convince one prosecutor and judge is highly likely to result in the same opinion of another prosecutor and judge when weighing up the presentation of the same facts for consideration.

 

[Davieson]

Evidence may be evidence, but different people can view its significance and importance differently.
In law, nothing is certain.

 

[Janosch]

According to the Olive press it won’t matter where in Germany CB is tried for the five crimes with which he has been indicted. If not Braunschweig the evidence will go with him and HCW considers it is stronger than ever, including a new witness coming to the fore. The evidence is compiled under the auspices of the BKA at police headquarters in Weisbaden.

Two of the Braunschweig prosecution team will ensure the court in Magdeburg has all the help needed. Continuity is thus preserved throughout.

I don’t think CB will walk away from this without being tried. All that his defence team will have gained is a further delay of a few weeks or months. Regrettable for the victims, but better than the nothing it was prior to Braunschweig taking up the duty.

I think Braunschweig should be the venue for any trial, given that they have been working these heinous crimes for years and deserve to take them to conclusion

EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect sex crimes trial will STILL go ahead - Olive Press News Spain

A SEX offences trial of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in Germany has not been cancelled. Despite global headlines to the contrary

www.theolivepress.es

Thank you @Mex

I had not read this before. After reading his book I think JC and Olive Press are doing a great job searching for the best information and talking to the relevant people.

I have only two fears. Firstly, that CB gets a guilty verdict while he did not do it. Or, secondly, that otherwise CB gets a not guilty verdict while he did it.

In the two cases, the true offender would be free for MM's crime.

I would like that the case will close properly, and not to have another Lindbergh case.

 

[Hexe]

It very clearly isn't "baseless", else they wouldn't have been permitted to make the public appeal in the first place. It may not be BARD, but it is certainly isn't baseless.


The investigation into CB had already been going on for 3 years in private and they obviously felt the public appeal was necessary in order to see if others could help fill in the blanks about CB's movements. It's about fulfilling their mandate when they already have strong evidence of a crime but not quite enough to convict.

Appealing to public doesn't (and it shouldn't) require the prosecutor to point the finger at the suspect and yell "He did it!". If the public help was needed, it couls have meen done in a different, less damaging way.

 

[Mex]

Appealing to public doesn't (and it shouldn't) require the prosecutor to point the finger at the suspect and yell "He did it!". If the public help was needed, it couls have meen done in a different, less damaging way.

It is my firm belief that the investigation was prematurely forced to go public with information before it was ready to do so.

To all intents and purposes the confidentiality was compromised by a leak in 2019 and later on in 2020 the press had worked out who one of two German jailed paedophiles actually was.

I think it was a blow to the investigation who would have reacted differently had it not happened.


New German suspect for the Madeleine McCann case was predicted by Goncalo Amaral 14 months ago
Mark Saunokonoko (Maddie Podcast): 14 months ago, in April 2019, Goncalo Amaral told me British police were "preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now" and the prisoner "is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

April 30, 2019 Article for 9news.com.au:

A German paedophile who UK police are preparing to target as the man who abducted and possibly killed missing girl Madeleine McCann is not the real culprit, according to an explosive theory outlined by the Portuguese detective who once led the 2007 case.

Goncalo Amaral made the allegation that the German child sex offender – who is known to authorities - would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation in a remarkable interview on Maddie, nine.com.au's podcast exploring the disappearance of Madeleine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/gw5nsq

 

[enquirer6]

It is my firm belief that the investigation was prematurely forced to go public with information before it was ready to do so.

To all intents and purposes the confidentiality was compromised by a leak in 2019 and later on in 2020 the press had worked out who one of two German jailed paedophiles actually was.

I think it was a blow to the investigation who would have reacted differently had it not happened.


New German suspect for the Madeleine McCann case was predicted by Goncalo Amaral 14 months ago
Mark Saunokonoko (Maddie Podcast): 14 months ago, in April 2019, Goncalo Amaral told me British police were "preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now" and the prisoner "is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

April 30, 2019 Article for 9news.com.au:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/gw5nsq

Amaral's malign shadow has blighted the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from first to last.

 

[Davieson]

Amaral's malign shadow has blighted the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from first to last.

I think you give him far too much attention than he deserves.