Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[Denis R Tandib]

So you don’t think at any point they shared this intelligence with the Portuguese authorities in confidence before it became public knowledge?

It’s quite obvious that they have shared information with the wrong people and without the necessary safeguards but whose fault is that?

 

[RichardKimble]

Do we know Das Buch even exists as claimed? What are the reliable sources? (genuinely interested)

The following is from Amaral’s book. Ahead of any official release from the BKA, he was well aware of who CB was.

It was found and apprehended in the LIDL bag 6 pen-drives and 2 memory cards which contained “photos of children, including those of an unknown child in sensual poses and, mainly, Word documents which the police responsible for the find describe as writings about serious sexual abuse against children. Later, BKA identifies these and other writings as two documents produced by the suspect with the titles of Das Buch and Das Buch 1. These books, said to be autobiographic, speak of himself and of friends and describe criminal practices. It’s unknown if we are before realities or pure fantasies, but the fact is that the finding of all this material was and is useful for the construction of a suspect.

He's off limits, but seeing as the contempt he's held in by some how reliable is that.

 

[mrjitty]

Do we know Das Buch even exists as claimed? What are the reliable sources? (genuinely interested)

The following is from Amaral’s book. Ahead of any official release from the BKA, he was well aware of who CB was.

It was found and apprehended in the LIDL bag 6 pen-drives and 2 memory cards which contained “photos of children, including those of an unknown child in sensual poses and, mainly, Word documents which the police responsible for the find describe as writings about serious sexual abuse against children. Later, BKA identifies these and other writings as two documents produced by the suspect with the titles of Das Buch and Das Buch 1. These books, said to be autobiographic, speak of himself and of friends and describe criminal practices. It’s unknown if we are before realities or pure fantasies, but the fact is that the finding of all this material was and is useful for the construction of a suspect.

Thanks!

It seems strange to place much reliance on this IMO

First the question is, even if GA was told this, how accurate is the sourcing?

Second, what is described is at a high level of generality. Unless specifics can be corroborated it doesn't strike me as good evidence, but rather intelligence about what might have happened, if indeed it even refers to the MM case at all.

 

[mrjitty]

He's off limits, but seeing as the contempt he's held in by some how reliable is that.

I think it is reasonably clear someone at PJ must be leaking to him.

But the thing is, we don't know the quality of that sourcing. Especially there is nothing particularly specific to the MM case that quote. No mention of a photo, forensics etc

 

[Lyall0814]

I'm obviously only guessing but I doubt he only chats with former and current PJ officers. I reckon he's regularly chatting with journalists from all countries, with information going both ways. Just because they always have to put 'disgraced' before his name in every article it doesn't mean they don't have strong relationships with him away from the conventions of public/media discussion. It would be odd imo if at least some didn't after sixteen years.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Thanks!

It seems strange to place much reliance on this IMO

First the question is, even if GA was told this, how accurate is the sourcing?

Second, what is described is at a high level of generality. Unless specifics can be corroborated it doesn't strike me as good evidence, but rather intelligence about what might have happened, if indeed it even refers to the MM case at all.

I’m not putting any reliance on it at all but I do think they exist and we’re part of the box factory find.

 

[Lyall0814]

I’m not putting any reliance on it at all but I do think they exist and we’re part of the box factory find.

Seems likely to me too. From the little we really know about him CB seems likely to be the type who'll have been scribbling throughout his life, on and off. Imo.

 

[mrjitty]

I’m not putting any reliance on it at all but I do think they exist and we’re part of the box factory find.

Maybe! My point is the detail really matters.

Recently in the Morphew case I believed from truck telematics that the prosecution certainly had a key piece of evidence, and spent hours on this, but they turned out not to have it. Assuming they have this photo or that photo or a specific kind of written confession is quite a stretch IMO - i learned the hard way

Especially i argue for marking a strong dividing line between intelligence and evidence. In morphew there are a gazillion things that give clues to what might have happened. These were investigative angles in the case. But these things are not evidence. Janosch has been making this point quite a bit.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Maybe! My point is the detail really matters.

Recently in the Morphew case I believed from truck telematics that the prosecution certainly had a key piece of evidence, and spent hours on this, but they turned out not to have it. Assuming they have this photo or that photo or a specific kind of written confession is quite a stretch IMO - i learned the hard way

Especially i argue for marking a strong dividing line between intelligence and evidence. In morphew there are a gazillion things that give clues to what might have happened. These were investigative angles in the case. But these things are not evidence. Janosch has been making this point quite a bit.

I agree with this.

My only reason for raising Das Buch was to point out that the BKA has unintentionally leaked information. It was suggested up thread that they were strategically releasing information which I don’t believe is the case.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Seems likely to me too. From the little we really know about him CB seems likely to be the type who'll have been scribbling throughout his life, on and off. Imo.

Yep, on school desks, public toilets and in word documents. Even in the box factory he had seemingly graffiti’d “my girlfriend ruined my life”.

I think there are probably some revelations in what he has written and in the witness statements but seemingly, on their own, they are not enough to charge him.

 

[Mex]

I encourage you to read the first sentence of your prior post for insight into my question.

It’s a fact the the McCanns have been suspects in the disappearance of MM. Now that the BKA has another suspect for the crime reinforces their innocence. Negative media coverage of the current investigation therefore is linked to them, their innocence or guilt.

You are free to believe that the media are not questioning the BKA/HCWs investigation because they are conducting it in a manner so honourable and without flaws that it is beyond reproach but I’m free to think it is for other reasons and I do.

Since the Leveson enquiry, there has been no negative press regarding the McCanns. As the current investigations influences public opinion on the guilt or innocence of the McCanns, it is clear that the media will also report on it in a favourable manner.

Leveson inquiry: McCanns deliver damning two-hour testimony

Couple describe the ordeal they suffered at hands of media and make impassioned plea for press regulation

www.theguardian.com

I think the restraints imposed on the press may owe far more to the libel laws than to Leveson. Which is perhaps why they seem in the main to be quite at home with reporting responsibly on CB and recognising his right to the presumption of innocence.

Presently there is only one suspect in the present investigation and that is CB.

 

[frank-cole]

BIB

I think they'd have charged him long ago. Those defences are hardly convincing IMO

i also think, if anything was going to leak out of PJ, it would be that

That’s a good point. I think the evidence may be stronger than

BBM, do you have a source for that search?

it was on the Discovery plus documentary called Prime suspect. There’s a photo of the evidence list that they seized from the apartment search in 2018, it included USB’s ‘personal photos’, bank statements from 07 too. The documentary noted that the crime (written in the header of the evidence log) was (according to them) the first time the case was listed as ‘mord’- murder. I’ll try to find that copy of the evidence list, I don’t have discovery plus anymore.

This date (2018) seems to coincide with HCW commenting on 60 minutes Australia that they found out Madeleine was dead ‘sometime in the last 2 years’ - IMO because it was classed as murder, pictures etc seized I think they found the concrete evidence during this search.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That’s a good point. I think the evidence may be stronger than

it was on the Discovery plus documentary called Prime suspect. There’s a photo of the evidence list that they seized from the apartment search in 2018, it included USB’s ‘personal photos’, bank statements from 07 too. The documentary noted that the crime (written in the header of the evidence log) was (according to them) the first time the case was listed as ‘mord’- murder. I’ll try to find that copy of the evidence list, I don’t have discovery plus anymore.

This date (2018) seems to coincide with HCW commenting on 60 minutes Australia that they found out Madeleine was dead ‘sometime in the last 2 years’ - IMO because it was classed as murder, pictures etc seized I think they found the concrete evidence during this search.

I can’t recall seeing anything about this but Discovery+ isn’t available in Asia.

Did it say where the apartment was? Did CB ever live there It would seem a bizarre place to stash something because it might be easy to find and difficult to retrieve at a later date.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I think the restraints imposed on the press may owe far more to the libel laws than to Leveson. Which is perhaps why they seem in the main to be quite at home with reporting responsibly on CB and recognising his right to the presumption of innocence.

Presently there is only one suspect in the present investigation and that is CB.

Perhaps but they can still be critical which they aren’t. If you can find something from the UK press that paints them in a negative light in the last ten years, please share it. This is not because I want to see negative things written about them but I don’t think such an article exists - and I think this is unusual.

 

[Mex]

So you don’t think at any point they shared this intelligence with the Portuguese authorities in confidence before it became public knowledge?

Course they did have to clear issues in the investigation with the Portuguese. For instance the two rapes of unidentified women and the assaults on children would require to be shared if police files were to be accessed.

What is interesting is that there have been no further leaks emanating from Portugal.
Which I found particularly interesting when I read that Porto PJ were on site.
___________________________________________
Ms Monteiro has insisted all her officers work in absolute secrecy to prevent leaks of their inquiries. It was decided officers in Porto should conduct the review as none had any direct involvement in the first Madeleine McCann investigation and would therefore approach the case with fresh eyes and open minds.

In Portugal, Ms Monteiro is seen as the driving force finally to get the Madeleine case files re-opened after five years, rather than through the efforts of Scotland Yard. She and her team are working separately from the Yard, although there is close liaison between the two.

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[Lyall0814]

I can’t recall seeing anything about this but Discovery+ isn’t available in Asia.

Did it say where the apartment was? Did CB ever live there It would seem a bizarre place to stash something because it might be easy to find and difficult to retrieve at a later date.

Augsburg. He was renting from the same guy who CB got to change the registration of his car.

How Madeleine suspect slept in my attic

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Augsburg. He was renting from the same guy who CB got to change the registration of his car.

How Madeleine suspect slept in my attic

AB, thought it would be him

 

[Denis R Tandib]

AB, thought it would be him

I remember now but didn’t think it was 2018.

In the article is says that the police came talking about a murder and Maddie. That doesn’t sound like the evidence of her death was found there.

What does it say in the Discovery doco about the search?

ETA: the search was 11 years after CB left AB’s house. Would they have found anything? Didn’t sound like CB was ever planning to go back there.

 

[Lyall0814]

In the same Discovery Plus documentary witness MS says his fellow witness (they're the ones who say they saw the video tapes allegedly showing CB's crimes) "would sell his mother for money". That's the guy Op Grange apparently flew to Greece to interview.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In the same Discovery Plus documentary witness MS says his fellow witness (they're the ones who say they saw the video tapes allegedly showing CB's crimes) "would sell his mother for money".

That’s not saying much as both his birth and adoptive mothers gave him away!