Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[Denis R Tandib]

Perhaps the Germans are a bit more canny about the information they have "leaked". Perhaps there has been no ill discipline among their ranks (unlike in other police forces) and they have let us know only what they have chosen to let us know. Personally I find it hard to believe that HCW would go in front of the world's media repeatedly to tell bare faced lies but clearly that's the implication here - that he's bluffing.

So you think that the Germans intended to leak the information that CB was a suspect and that he had written a biographical document detailing crimes? And, that the chosen mouthpiece for these specific leaks was GA. This doesn't sound very "canny" to me but we each have our opinion.

I think you are misunderstanding my views on HCW. I have never said he has lied - bare-faced or otherwise. I do not believe he has physical evidence that CB is the perpetrator, largely because he has repeatedly said he doesn't. All the statements he has made could be explained by the witness statements he has received and the investigation's view that they are accurate, reliable and irrefutable proof of CB's guilt.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The thing is that the present investigation is nothing to do with K&GM. It is all about a horrendous crime committed against their daughter and the investigation into who might be responsible and the evidence supporting the search.

Just because we are not privy to that information certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is questionable. My opinion

The investigation into the murder or the McCann's daughter has nothing to do with them? Paraphrasing but did I interpret that correctly?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IMO they’ll have that

IMO the concrete evidence is a photo or video of MM deceased, found amongst CB’s belongings from the apartment search in 2018. HCW was quite specific about what type of photo/video evidence they don’t have - a video of the act or a picture of MM with the suspect on camera. IMO a lot of their strategy has been around closing the gap between abduction & picture/video to work around the potential counter arguments of ‘prove he took that picture’ or ‘he was sent that’ or ‘he had thousands of those pictures, he didn’t know the victims’ etc. IMO they’ve probably come a long way since the appeal & have built up a strong enough case.
A non-forensic murder case will need to be airtight IMO. I think a lot of their purpose is to work through any challenges that could leave a slight argument & jeopardise a future guilty verdict.

BBM, do you have a source for that search?

 

[Mex]

The investigation into the murder or the McCann's daughter has nothing to do with them? Paraphrasing but did I interpret that correctly?

Apologies for not making myself clear enough for you, but what I actually said was that "the present investigation ... is all about a horrendous crime committed against their daughter and the investigation into who might be responsible and the evidence supporting the search."

My meaning being that MM's parents have no locus either as suspects or witnesses to the present investigation. No-ne is looking into their horrific child *advertiser censored* collection, because they never had one.

Nor do they have criminal records for rape or abusing children. Nor have they had their property dug up since 2017 or was the search at the dam due to them being frequent visitors there,

The person presently being investigated as a murder suspect ticks all those boxes and perhaps many more. My opinion is that he is the sole suspect in this investigation.

 

[Okapi]

Great point, I didnt think of that. If the evidence from the van is weak, then evidence from Arade Reservior could be stronger, and even if it isnt it would surely strenghten the evidence found in his van. 2 peaces of weak(ish) evidence is better than one.

I dont neccessearily agree with your second point, however. If MC's gangland client CLAIMS CB did dispose of the MM at Arade, and the soil is a match with the 'approximate' time period, how approximate are we talking exactly; days, weeks, months, longer???

Even if you could pinpoint the soil sample to within 2 days of MM going missing, CB could still turn round and say "yeah, so what, I probably did visit there 2 days after she vanished. I loved it there and visted it all the time." Within forensic proof that MM was ever at Arade, matching 2 soil samples from Arade and CB van seems pointless. JMO

This is is where potentially a photo (perhaps time-stamped) of MM in a wooded area, which matches a site at the dam, may come in. It likely doesn’t have the face of the perpetrator. But a convicted child molester may be pinpointed at the dam at that general time on the basis of a tip-off and soil/pollen samples found on his vehicle. I guess they are seeking to align as many factors as they can. Obviously the definitive link will be the retrieval of a body and DNA evidence. I really hope something has turned up in the searches at Arade.

The investigation into the murder or the McCann's daughter has nothing to do with them? Paraphrasing but did I interpret that correctly?

I took that to mean that the suspect in the current investigation is CB, not the parents?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Apologies for not making myself clear enough for you, but what I actually said was that "the present investigation ... is all about a horrendous crime committed against their daughter and the investigation into who might be responsible and the evidence supporting the search."

My meaning being that MM's parents have no locus either as suspects or witnesses to the present investigation. No-ne is looking into their horrific child *advertiser censored* collection, because they never had one.

Nor do they have criminal records for rape or abusing children. Nor have they had their property dug up since 2017 or was the search at the dam due to them being frequent visitors there,

The person presently being investigated as a murder suspect ticks all those boxes and perhaps many more. My opinion is that he is the sole suspect in this investigation.

I encourage you to read the first sentence of your prior post for insight into my question.

It’s a fact the the McCanns have been suspects in the disappearance of MM. Now that the BKA has another suspect for the crime reinforces their innocence. Negative media coverage of the current investigation therefore is linked to them, their innocence or guilt.

You are free to believe that the media are not questioning the BKA/HCWs investigation because they are conducting it in a manner so honourable and without flaws that it is beyond reproach but I’m free to think it is for other reasons and I do.

Since the Leveson enquiry, there has been no negative press regarding the McCanns. As the current investigations influences public opinion on the guilt or innocence of the McCanns, it is clear that the media will also report on it in a favourable manner.

Leveson inquiry: McCanns deliver damning two-hour testimony

Couple describe the ordeal they suffered at hands of media and make impassioned plea for press regulation

www.theguardian.com

 

[Consider Dudley]

So you think that the Germans intended to leak the information that CB was a suspect and that he had written a biographical document detailing crimes? And, that the chosen mouthpiece for these specific leaks was GA. This doesn't sound very "canny" to me but we each have our opinion.

I think you are misunderstanding my views on HCW. I have never said he has lied - bare-faced or otherwise. I do not believe he has physical evidence that CB is the perpetrator, largely because he has repeatedly said he doesn't. All the statements he has made could be explained by the witness statements he has received and the investigation's view that they are accurate, reliable and irrefutable proof of CB's guilt.

I think you are putting words in my mouth. No I do not think the BKA leaked direct to GA - that is a preposterous idea. I wouldn’t call divulging certain information to the police force with which you are collaborating on a crime committed in their country “leaking” but I would imagine if there was any leaking going on it would be coming from the force that we know has a reputation for it and whose erstwhile colleague hsppens to be He Who Should Not Be Discussed.

Furthrmore if you believe that all the information and evidence HCW has is already in the public domain then clearly the man is lying when he talks about knowing stuff that we don’t know that would convince us of CB’s guilt. Do you believe him when he tells us that?

 

[Consider Dudley]

I encourage you to read the first sentence of your prior post for insight into my question.

It’s a fact the the McCanns have been suspects in the disappearance of MM. Now that the BKA has another suspect for the crime reinforces their innocence. Negative media coverage of the current investigation therefore is linked to them, their innocence or guilt.

You are free to believe that the media are not questioning the BKA/HCWs investigation because they are conducting it in a manner so honourable and without flaws that it is beyond reproach but I’m free to think it is for other reasons and I do.

Since the Leveson enquiry, there has been no negative press regarding the McCanns. As the current investigations influences public opinion on the guilt or innocence of the McCanns, it is clear that the media will also report on it in a favourable manner.

Leveson inquiry: McCanns deliver damning two-hour testimony

Couple describe the ordeal they suffered at hands of media and make impassioned plea for press regulation

www.theguardian.com

That is an illogical conclusion in my view. Even the McCanns themselves have appeared critical of the current investigation at times!

 

[mrjitty]

Or by so called "solicitors" who are usually making money by using every single loophole inside the law to defend their clients, but if prosecutors are doing the same, they tend to make up scandals out of it!

I don't agree that defence lawyers attacking the prosecution case on procedural grounds are "loopholes"

Judge's referee procedure tightly to ensure the overall integrity of the system. In this case, I agree it is frustrating that the prosecution appear to have messed up on jurisdiction (embarrassing really). But those rules exist for good reason.

Especially it is not the Court's job to go round allowing prosecutions from districts lacking jurisdiction.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I think you are putting words in my mouth. No I do not think the BKA leaked direct to GA - that is a preposterous idea. I wouldn’t call divulging certain information to the police force with which you are collaborating on a crime committed in their country “leaking” but I would imagine if there was any leaking going on it would be coming from the force that we know has a reputation for it and whose erstwhile colleague hsppens to be He Who Should Not Be Discussed.

Furthrmore if you believe that all the information and evidence HCW has is already in the public domain then clearly the man is lying when he talks about knowing stuff that we don’t know that would convince us of CB’s guilt. Do you believe him when he tells us that?

I disagree, your words were:

Perhaps the Germans are a bit more canny about the information they have "leaked". Perhaps there has been no ill discipline among their ranks (unlike in other police forces) and they have let us know only what they have chosen to let us know.

It’s a fact the suspect’s name and the existence of Das Buch were insufficiently guarded by the BKA, so much so, that these details were shared by a former lead detective who was sacked from this very case.

You have suggested that the Germans are leaking information strategically and not mistakenly. My point is that if your suggestion is true, then the leak of CBs details and Das Buch must be strategic. If this is not what you meant, please share what information has been intentionally leaked and explain how CB’s suspect status and the existence of Das Buch came to be in the public domain.

I have never said that all the information HCW has is in the public domain nor have I accused him of lying. I simply do not believe he has a photo or physical evidence connecting CB to MM’s abduction or murder. This was the case in the DM case which investigated, charged and convicted within a couple of years. IMO, the reason they are continuing to investigate is because they do not have the evidence required to obtain a conviction.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I disagree, your words were:

It’s a fact the suspects name and the existence of Das Buch were insufficiently guarded by the BKA, so much so, that these details were shared by a former lead detective who was sacked from this case.

You have suggested that the Germans are leaking information strategically and not mistakenly. My point is that if your proposition is true, then the leak of CBs details and Das Buch must be strategic. If this is not what you meant, please share what information has been intentionally leaked and explain how CB’s suspect status came to be in the public domain.

I have never said that all the information HCW has is in the public domain nor have I accused him of lying. I simply do not believe he has a photo or physical evidence connecting CB to MM’s abduction or murder. This was the case in the DM case which investigated, charged and convicted within a couple of years. IMO, the reason they are continuing to investigate is because they do not have the evidence required to obtain a conviction.

Did you notice I used the word “leaked” in inverted commas? I don’t think they have leaked anything I do think they have been strategic about the information they have so far released to the public. I do also think that information about the investigation that hasn’t come direct from HCW and that ended up with He Who Must Not Be Discussed (perhaps we could start a new abbreviation?) was as a result of leaks from another police force, renowned for leaking.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That is an illogical conclusion in my view. Even the McCanns themselves have appeared critical of the current investigation at times!

IIRC, they have only said that they had not received a letter from the BKA.

IMO, if this were not the MM case, the media’s scrutiny of the investigation would be far more critical.

The McCanns have suffered at the hands of the media which was clearly confirmed by the Leveson enquiry hence the media’s favourable reporting of anything to do with it.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Did you notice I used the word “leaked” in inverted commas? I don’t think they have leaked anything I do think they have been strategic about the information they have so far released to the public. I do also think that information about the investigation that hasn’t come direct from HCW and that ended up with He Who Must Not Be Discussed (perhaps we could start a new abbreviation?) was as a result of leaks from another police force, renowned for leaking.

If the BKA investigation identified CB as the prime suspect and obtained Das Buch as a critical piece of evidence then they are responsible for the leak, there can be no other explanation.

 

[Consider Dudley]

IIRC, they have only said that they had not received a letter from the BKA.

IMO, if this were not the MM case, the media’s scrutiny of the investigation would be far more critical.

The McCanns have suffered at the hands of the media which was clearly confirmed by the Leveson enquiry hence the media’s favourable reporting of anything to do with it.

And what’s the reason for the German media failing to criticise their own police force?

 

[Consider Dudley]

If the BKA investigation identified CB as the prime suspect and obtained Das Buch as a critical piece of evidence then they are responsible for the leak, there can be no other explanation.

So you don’t think at any point they shared this intelligence with the Portuguese authorities in confidence before it became public knowledge?

 

[Okapi]

Somehow, I missed this.

“It said that in places where the sniffer dogs signaled, the soil was dug up, possibly indicating that biological traces were also being sought.”

German prosecutor says clues to McCann child disappearance possible at Portuguese dam site

 

[mrjitty]

Do we know Das Buch even exists as claimed? What are the reliable sources? (genuinely interested)

Most of the time these leaks are inaccurate in my experience of other cases.

 

[mrjitty]

There is a series of true life crimes on British tv called no1 suspect in a recent episode a DCI said they have to think like a defence lawyer whilst gathering evidence to make it water tight, never heard a defence team say they have to think like the investigators, so much easier if no defence was allowed one supposes.

A lot of defence lawyers start out as prosecutors. It's a common career path. Go to a small city/district to get lots of trial experience very early, then move to private practice later.

I've been quite critical of US defence attorneys in the McStay and Morphew cases in the way they actually mislead the court - a huge no no where I come from. But in europe i hold defence lawyers in high regard, especially in the UK.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Do we know Das Buch even exists as claimed? What are the reliable sources? (genuinely interested)

Most of the time these leaks are inaccurate in my experience of other cases.

The following is from Amaral’s book. Ahead of any official release from the BKA, he was well aware of who CB was.

It was found and apprehended in the LIDL bag 6 pen-drives and 2 memory cards which contained “photos of children, including those of an unknown child in sensual poses and, mainly, Word documents which the police responsible for the find describe as writings about serious sexual abuse against children. Later, BKA identifies these and other writings as two documents produced by the suspect with the titles of Das Buch and Das Buch 1. These books, said to be autobiographic, speak of himself and of friends and describe criminal practices. It’s unknown if we are before realities or pure fantasies, but the fact is that the finding of all this material was and is useful for the construction of a suspect.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

And what’s the reason for the German media failing to criticise their own police force?

Apathy and cultural nuances. I don’t think the case has the same profile in Germany that it has in the UK. Also, I don’t think German MSM is as critical as the media is in the UK.