Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #7

[BellMat]

Wow ... really? It is illegal in some countries to delve into the dark web and catch these disgusting child abusers?

We have had a whole bunch of 'dark web' arrests this year - the result of two years of hard (and, no doubt, heartbreaking) work.

I couldn't imagine that anyone would be against such a thing. Let alone make it illegal.

I am always impressed by their work but yes, some aspects of what they do are illegal in some countries. Posting abuse material to catch people, taking over sites and sitting back ... it’s a bit of an ethical minefield.

 

[photographer4]

As an aside, I still can't get my head around subsequent families having a holiday in apartment 5a. How on earth could you enjoy your holiday knowing where you were staying? ( the ones who stayed there in the weeks after her disappearance)

I think you'd get people renting that suite in particular just because they wanted to see the place for themselves etc.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am always impressed by their work but yes, some aspects of what they do are illegal in some countries. Posting abuse material to catch people, taking over sites and sitting back ... it’s a bit of an ethical minefield.

Because the scum who go to great efforts to join these dark web sites, provide the abuse materials, and provide a paying audience to view the sadism are so ethical, hey.

Not really a conversation for this thread, but thank you. I have been a member here for a long time, but I still learn something new every time I log on.

I wonder if Portugal is one of the countries who enable this type of criminal abuse behaviour, due to 'ethics'.

 

[BellMat]

Police probing Madeleine McCann suspect find kids' swimwear and 8,000 sick pics

Police probing Madeleine McCann suspect find kids' swimwear and 8,000 sick pics

Nothing new here and I haven't even read it yet.

I post it for the pictures, 2 new pictures of CB and a picture of his Allegro van, now depicting plate (German, from Augsburg, Bavaria).

They got the extradition country wrong. It was Italy not Portugal that CB was extradited from.

This is why tabloids are irritating. They can’t get the basic stuff right!

Having said that, they are finding some interesting, if not fact-checked, info and continuously reporting the CB case.

The July hearing for his appeal and the various options are interesting. The clock is ticking. No wonder the Germans went public now. Hopefully the conviction is upheld. The idea that he’d get out and run off somewhere is pretty horrifying.

 

[BellMat]

Because the scum who go to great efforts to join these dark web sites, provide the abuse materials, and provide a paying audience to view the sadism are so ethical, hey.

Not really a conversation for this thread, but thank you. I have been a member here for a long time, but I still learn something new every time I log on.

Yes, for a different thread. There was a very interesting Canadian/Norwegian podcast about Taskforce Argos and some of these issues, just FYI.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/hunting-warhead-child-*advertiser censored*-investigation

 

[kyndigs]

Imagine being born with those tendencies, I'm not at all excusing people who act out on their urges, but there must be an awful lot of people out there who have an attraction to children that they can't just turn off, it actually must be so confusing and shameful for them, they know it's wrong but a feeling is not something you choose, must be a miserable life for the majority who secretly feel that way and spend their lives trying to ignore it. Of course those that do act on it know it's wrong and that's inexcusable, I don't know, it's seen as an 'evil' tendency, but I guess for a lot of people they wish to god they weren't that way. I'm fascinated by psychology and I think so many people are misunderstood, again, that doesn't excuse the behaviour of those that choose to act on their urges.

When you were at school you were attracted to people your age and in your memories you remember them as attractive but if now you saw them as they were at 14 years old you would not be attracted, but in school you were. The psychology behind it intrigued me, and I remember reading a research paper, and it hypothesized that you are attracted to people around your own age because you are at the same stage in life as them, have similar interests and motives, work, etc and paedophiles as such never progressed, that's why you read about a lot of them having childhood abuses in the past with trauma and neglect as such they never got the chance to progress through childhood as most do. But many people who have had such childhood issues live normal lives, I guess there must be a morality condition in people that allows them to not act on their urges and as such eventually grow out of it.

 

[Cherwell]

If she is hiding from CB's friends, we have to guess this is because his friends are still loyal to him, and are aware of his criminal activity / involvement in this matter or other similar matters. If they weren't loyal to him still, they wouldn't pose a threat to her. OR... she hides from them because they themselves are somehow involved / implicated in this matter, or some other matter involving CB. More and more it points to a ring in my opinion.

Or, quite simply, she doesn't know if either of the above apply, but is afraid they might.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Perhaps she’s hiding from the press so she doesn’t wreck the evidence by saying some of the stuff that is being withheld, pending trial

 

[sleuth-d-]

I hear you, but.. i dont think you can write the source out just because its wikipedia. The page cites the official sources it refers to, thats one of the many rules you need to abide by when contributing...its actually difficult to add to it because you need to cite source, have it verified, and then reviewed and so on..so, its whilst its not the official repository for all things, and it cant claim 100% accuracy, it does do a good job of capturing the facts due to its strict processes.

I think there hasnt been enough consideration that a group of tight or loosely knit people with similar interests- kids, drugs, partying, deviant behaviours, can be inadvertently involved, or implicated - which makes the certainty of an individual more difficult to prove.

My suggestion is that amongst a crowd, its more difficult to prove it was that one person who performed one particular activity, whilst others are performing various similar activities, but perhaps not to the same extremities.

But it seems people dont believe the 5% claim on the Wiki page. I really didnt just make it up, i just searched for it and thats the figure that came up, and i followed the citings and it seems to check out as that figure is well supported.

So to be conservative and even more sceptical, i suggested we entertain that the site page isnt correct ( we have no basis to dismiss it), and pick a much more 'believable' number...say, 1%.

What does 1% mean?
Theres STILL 20 pedos in PdL..(if it was an average location, which it isnt.. )
Theres STILL 100,000 (500,000 if 5%) in Portugal..thats 1 pedo every 9.2km for the 1% assumption) and every 1.8km if you assume that the proportion is 5% ) Now, this is ASSUMING THAT PEOPLE ARE EQUALLY SPACED OUT.

Now, since most people occupy 1/3rd to 1/2 of Portugal, So in reality the area is only 46,000 sq km. There are between 2 and 11 p'philes per square kilometre.

On one hand, if you assume that the number of p'philes is based on area, then PdL has between 42 and 250 p'philes. By population (3500) its between 35 and 175 in the area..again IF PdL was just an average area, which it isnt. It attracts a certain type of person and people.

To make it even clearer, this means that the average distance between p'philes is between 80m and 5km. Thats easily close enough to know each other. IMO

It (a few people working with, or at the same thing) does seem to fit the narrative. The evidence that MM is dead couldve been on the USB, but perhaps there are multiple unidentified people on it, and they cant be exactly certain..but perhaps they witnessed murder?..

yes its all speculation but i think that we need to understand other factors such as the local demographics and other aspects that arent directly related to information reported on.

why do you persist in posting this. your figures are seriously flawed. it was pointed out upthread. you must have missed it.
the answers are n the wiki page you quoted: "The prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is not known, but is estimated to be lower than 5% among adult men."

TOTAL population of Portugal 2007 = 10.5 million. THAT'S MALE AND FEMALE. ALL AGES.

work out your figures from there:
filter 1: male population of Portugal?
filter 2: adult male population of Portugal? i.e. deduct males that cannot be called pedophiles - male babies and pre-pubescent boys....??
filter 3: from the wiki page you use as your basis. "... pedophiles who are "reflective, sensitive to the feelings of others, averse to risk, abstain from alcohol or drug use, and endorse attitudes and beliefs supportive of norms and the laws" may be unlikely to abuse children." ???
filter 4: Pedophilia is not a crime, child sex abuse is. ????
...
...

 

[sleuth-d-]

I think you'd get people renting that suite in particular just because they wanted to see the place for themselves etc.

yep. test those damn blinds from the outside for starters.

 

[leticiaoliveira]

As an aside, I still can't get my head around subsequent families having a holiday in apartment 5a. How on earth could you enjoy your holiday knowing where you were staying? ( the ones who stayed there in the weeks after her disappearance)

The hotel installed a window fence on the window MM was taken from, I think to make the subsequent guests feel safer.

 

[LeopardLeotard]

Didnt someone buy it?,sure i read somewhere a woman had bought 5a

 

[sleuth-d-]

A lot to unpack there ...

I think the second speculation (holding back) is basically standard procedure with LE so that’s why I was more curious about the first (admissibility). If that’s the case it’s an interesting idea. For example, where did the horrible message the media reported about CB talking about abusing a child come from and how did they get it? Just a message to a friend or something darker ...

I’m aware of the work of things like TF Argos but it’s controversial, and in some countries illegal, to infiltrate networks that way. That’s why I brought up entrapment also. Not that they have, but it’s possible ...

Lastly, I’m cautious about “concrete evidence” because that wording was a translation in English media. The prosecutor clarified it was strong circumstantial evidence, which is slightly different.

here's a much more believable quote that may explain why 'concrete' got into the narrative.
“There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left,” a statement said."
'We believe Madeleine McCann is dead' say German prosecutors as investigation hones in on suspect

 

[leticiaoliveira]

Didnt someone buy it?,sure i read somewhere a woman had bought 5a

Yes. Years later.

 

[NCanning]

I think you'd get people renting that suite in particular just because they wanted to see the place for themselves etc.

Yes, probably. But that's why I specified those people who stayed in it in the weeks following her disappearance. They may not have had much of a choice which apt they were allocated.

The hotel installed a window fence on the window MM was taken from, I think to make the subsequent guests feel safer.

I wasn't even so much thinking of safety - more the thought of trying to have a happy holiday knowing what happened in that very room

 

[sleuth-d-]

re: the swimming costumes.
size - they don't look like the swimming costume of a small child.
could they be large enough for CB to be wearing himself... they are made of very elastic materials.
if you saw him wearing one, would you possibly say - 'i can only describe [it] as a leotard'?
for the swimming costume imagery:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-contained-stash-girls-swimming-costumes.html

 

[Dlk79]

here's a much more believable quote that may explain why 'concrete' got into the narrative.
“There is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left,” a statement said."
'We believe Madeleine McCann is dead' say German prosecutors as investigation hones in on suspect

That quote came out at the beginning, when the appeal was first made. The other quotes about evidence to believe MM was murdered by CB was more recent and where the concrete evidence/supsicion statement came about. Not saying it wasn't misinterpreted but I dont believe it was a mix up from the other statement.

 

[Dlk79]

Yes. Years later.

Apartment 5A was privately owned when MM stayed there. Mark Warner holidays would rent it out on the owner's behalf but the owners also used to rent it out to friends themselves too. It's mentioned a few times in the PJ files, at one point they were asking when the police would be handing the apartment back to them so they could start using/renting it again.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Apartment 5A was privately owned when MM stayed there. Mark Warner holidays would rent it out on the owner's behalf but the owners also used to rent it out to friends themselves too. It's mentioned a few times in the PJ files, at one point they were asking when the police would be handing the apartment back to them so they could start using/renting it again.

the owners were called mccann, i believe. another one of the strange coincidences.

 

[JugsAndTugs]

Got a crazy thought before, as I watched my friends dog eat a bone like it was nothing... what if that dog had more significance that was found with a usb under. I know it sounds mad but at this point I’d take anything.