Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #12

[gitana1]

No coordinates released to public yet unless i missed it. If AUs have this info why is it difficult to find the spot? Shouldn't their navigation system take them right there?

Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Tapatalk

Waves, drift, bad weather, even with coordinates the ocean is big and not static.

This is the real cockpit voice recorrder :
Hudson Flight 1549 HD Animation with audio for US Airways Water Landing - YouTube


Respectfully snipped. I believe this first simulation was the great Caption Scholly and his fantastic landing in NY.

Everyone should listen to this. The incredible calm of the pilot! That should reassure anyone afraid of flying. They have a job to do, know how to do it and are consummate professionals. They take care of us so much better than we can ever imagine.

"We" didn't lose it - the FAA doesn't regulate aviation over there. I do not believe this would happen around the U.S., but no system is perfect.

Not only that but I don;t understand how one incident among millions and millions of flights, one incident that does not impact, at all, the pretty much absolute safety of flying, would cause so many people to think we need major changes and that this is a discernible problem that places anyone other than the amazingly unlucky people on that specific flight, at risk.

I really think no significant changes to the industry are pressing, except maybe, in the one in one hundred millionth case like this, having that extra tracker that Malaysia Air went without, would make it easier to locate a plane. (Of course no one should ever be able to get by security with a fake passport. But we don't need to change anything. Just make sure we are implementing what we have).

Yes, we can always improve on security. In everything. But nothing can ever eradicate all possible risk. There will always be a loophole. And considering how statistically remote incidents like this are to the industry as a whole, to the safety record of this mode of travel, it does stun me how many people become so alarmed, as if what happened here is any sort of intelligible, mathematical risk to anyone else.

I just think there's nothing for the world at large to worry much about and even if there is, there is nothing we can ever do to eliminate all risk of living. That's just life. It carries with it risk.

As I keep saying, if nothing whatsoever was changed in the industry in response to this event, flying remains much, much safer than standing on your porch.

 

[Summerfun]

Okay, that makes sense now.
Ya, I agree there. I don't think there's any conspiracy or lying governments.

This has been nothing but lying governments.
Especially the Malaysian government.
They have done zero in this search.

If they didn't keep lying and covering their *advertiser censored**
Maybe they would have found this plane
on day one.

They keep hiding everything. And that is really disgusting.

Maybe there were people on life rafts waiting to get rescued,
but because of all the false information, nobody was looking
in that part of the region.

This is very sickening.

 

[aa9511]

Good point....

However...

This does indicate there was cell phone coverage in the plane at some time during this event...

Possibly there was coverage from the airport itself for a distance...,but dwindled as it became further away as the flight progressed....

It has been reported there could not be cell phone coverage in the plane at 30,000 ft. Elevation... However... The flight started at ground level... And obviously was not at 30,000 (plus or minus) feet elevation at all times...

Therefore...I am still puzzled why there have been no reports at all, of cell contact between these passengers and relatives/friends/etc. ...

I am leaning towards cell coverage blocked by nefarious sources...

JMO

Yes, that is a good point.

I was thinking, well, you know, I guess they never mentioned any other calls because they already knew there was no "action" going on in the plane at that tme. There was apparently nothing going on obviously on runway, nothing that we know of during take-off, etc..

But then I'm thinking, yeah, so why are they making a big deal about the pilot's phone call?

What if the hijackers were some of the passengers....then those passenger phone calls on the runway would be VERY important if there are any. How come they are not mentioning the passenger phone calls? We are only hearing about pilot phone call?

We just don't have enough information because we don't know what information they're not giving us.

For example, if Captain Shah was able to use his cell phone on the runway....but NO ONE else was....that would have some meaning possibly.

But we don't know if NO ONE else used their cell phones or not?

I have a VERY HARD TIME believing no single passenger used their cell phones on the tarmac, like while the plane was waiting at the gate for the plane to fill up, and then backing out of the gate. I would guess some people probably even try to get a quick text out on the runway, waiting to take-off. Then quickly put it in airplane-mode.

There MUST be passenger calls or texts if the whole network was not blocked.

We just don't know. All they did was tell us of one phone call of Captain Shah. Well, what about the other 238 people??

You make such a good point.

Now yes that is a time-consuming task....to retrieve phone records of all 239 passengers and crew (some from different countries) and look at calls for all of them.....but so many countries and so people must be working on this....surely they can pull this information together.

JMO.

Let's see if they ever give out any information on passenger phone calls from the gate/runway.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I'm just having a difficult time assigning MALICE to either of the pilots. They both seemed to love what they did and had loving families. The older guy was not religious, from what I've read....politically involved, yes but nothing to indicate radical. And the younger seemed so normal for his age. He was devout, his neighbors said but he had been studying and working on professional aviation for a long time. His fiancée is a pilot and they met in school YEARS ago. So I hope it turns out that it was a botched hijack and that all but the hijackers passed quickly. But NO COMMUNICATION has be stumped. jmo

Sad but you never know what someone can be doing privately. Only to find out later a neighbor, friend, relative. etc. who you thought was so wonderful,nice, kind and friendly being carried away by LE in handcuffs for murder, rape, pedophilia, some other horrible crime. People aren't always the way they seem.

 

[ktgirl]

Wealth matters. I'm not sure how the "permission" is obtained, but yes, with wealth you can have more than one child.

The one child policy doesn't apply to every Chinese citizen. Many demographers consider the term "one child policy" to be an improper name for the policy. In fact, the one child policy doesn't even apply to MOST Chinese citizens.

In 2007, the policy applied only to about 36% of China's population. You are excluded from the one child policy if:
- you live in a rural area & your first child is female or disabled
- one of the parents is an only child (until 2013, both parents had have no siblings)
- you are an ethnic minority
- Residents of Hong Kong & Macau are exempt
- you can pay a fee based on your income to have a second child

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

The policy is no doubt controversial and I am not trying to defend it, but there's a lot more to it than most Americans realize. I teach university geography, and while China is by no means my area of specialization, colleagues who study China and are from China are generally of the consensus that without the policy, many in China would have starved as the population got too large for the natural resources and economy of China to handle. In short, many people believe the policy saved a generation of Chinese from starving to death.

Yes, many female children are aborted, abandoned, or killed by infanticide and this is AWFUL. However, the policy has also led to much better opportunities for girls who are born to loving families. Whereas a family with three children (say one boy and two girls) once had to decide which child to educate if they only had money for one child to go to school, the boy would always be sent to school. Education and career opportunities for women in China have improved under the policy: "While the one-child policy seems to have “inadvertently” contributed to equality outcomes, according to a publication in the Journal of Family Issues last year, it has no less transformed prospects for women in urban China." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...he-status-and-prospects-of-girls-like-me.html The policy has improved gender equality and opportunities as well as standards of living for women in China (however, this is of course if you aren't aborted or abandoned or killed after birth).

Again, I'm not defending the policy. I generally think people should have as many - or as few - children as they feel they can financially and emotionally handle. Because of intense competition in China and the cost of raising & educating a child the best a family can, many Chinese (like many Americans & Europeans) who can have more than one child under the policy still only chose to have one. With one, they can put more money and time into giving that child every possible opportunity they can, which they may not be able to do for 2 kids or more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/d...licy-chinese-parents-say-having-two-v21566045

Sorry for the OT.

 

[CARIIS]

Did this one in “word”!

I do not think anything more is happening today - weather.

As a professional, I also think, for the families, the folks working them are doing them a disservice at this point in time.. As I practiced, I discovered, especially with violent, unexpected death the biggest gift one can give the client is to support, encourage heading for authentic grief
.
In violent and unexpected death, anger must certainly be given a voice and some attention. But what I learned was, at the same time, it could be, and often was, for the survivors, an unconscious avoidance of doing the grief work.

The notions about what and why are cognitive undertakings. Typically, those questions did not involve any other feeling state than anger. That is fine – to a point. The truth, however, is authentic grief work begins when the individual works on saying goodbyes. That is the hard part, the feeling part, and is a process, but a process that does not start until the and why can be put behind. Putting them behind, however does not necessarily mean getting an answer.

And, interestingly, when handled well, down the road, it was helpful for the individual to be able to be OK with not needing the answer to what and why. That, in time, in it, could be helpful. Obviously it varied.

Saying goodbye is grieving – closure, in the true context of the notion. Their time has come to start that difficult journey …
.
Now, I have never worked with that culture – and that dynamic is huge, but it is time, for their healing to be authentic, and allow them to proceed, they need to move on, work through goodbye, try to grab acceptance, and allow themselves to feel goodbye
.
That is just what I learned treating survivors of violent death……..

 

[gitana1]

BBM

I am sure that lady who lost her Only son would can not fathom that....it was her only son. Gone now forever --> her family gene pool. What is the price of a Human life these days? When they are Innocent?

How do you put a dollar Sign on One person's head......let alone 239 others.

We spend more $$$ on Wars -- Killing bad people. These are innocent people here on a plane. JMO, MOO

I see your point but I;m sure you realize that GPS would be highly unlikely to have saved even one life on that plane (it seems to have crashed) and that this is one of the only incidents among ten million commercial flights per year, in which a plane has disappeared. It really takes an incredibly odd confluence of events to cause something like this to happen in contemporary times and the likelihood of it ever happening again such that it is super hard to find the plane, is probably close to zero.

GPS has nothing to do with the price of life, here. Just the price of knowing, for the families of the horribly unlucky people who perished.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Sad but you never know what someone can be doing privately. Only to find out later a neighbor, friend, relative. etc. who you thought was so wonderful,nice, kind and friendly being carried away by LE in handcuffs for murder, rape, pedophilia, some other horrible crime. People aren't always the way they seem.

MOO. It only seems fair that there be concrete evidence before blame is assigned. I've not seen such evidence myself. I feel so very bad for all involved.

 

[aa9511]

It has been talked about but cant find anything and i am blasting music have had cnn on for last 15 says it is time to just follow story here much better here

bbm

LOL! Me too. I think they have pretty much talked about every point as much as they can talk about it. Today was mostly just repeat of older news about the flight. While they wait for the ships/aircraft to confirm the sightings.

 

[The Village Idiot]

Well, fancy meeting y'all here! Unfortunately here we are again, another day, same story. I thought we'd have some news today, sigh. I have some catching up to do but just wanted to say hi to everyone!

@snoods -- Love your QUOTE on the above post.

Your quote says [BBM]:

"Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for that one animal their world is changed forever!" -Unknown

Same applies here for M370 - If One person Survives:

Rescuing one PERSON may not change the world, but for that one PERSON their world is changed forever!

 

[gitana1]

This has been nothing but lying governments.
Especially the Malaysian government.
They have done zero in this search.

If they didn't keep lying and covering their *advertiser censored**
Maybe they would have found this plane
on day one.

They keep hiding everything. And that is really disgusting.

Maybe there were people on life rafts waiting to get rescued,
but because of all the false information, nobody was looking
in that part of the region.

This is very sickening.

Yeah, except Malaysia. They were inept and corrupt and as a result, precious time was wasted that could've been used to search for this plane.

As to people on life rafts, the possibility than anyone survived initial impact into the sea is quite remote. But that doesn't matter. There is no excuse for Malaysia's response to this. It's disgusting and why countries like that do not prosper as fast as they should.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Here are my questions about this latest development (wreckage):

If earlier reports had military radar indicating the pilot was flying by waypoints northwesterly from Malaysia towards the Andaman Islands (and low, avoiding commercial radar), then how is it that they think he could have instead flown southward and ended up southwest of Perth, Australia? Wreckage being down there doesn't make sense if one is assuming aircraft trouble just off the east coast of Malaysia (eg. a cockpit fire) made the pilot turn around and head westward. If the fire/smoke/lack of oxygen caused them to pass out, then the pilot wouldn't have flown by waypoints for several hours in a westerly direction unless on autopilot--which some pilots say won't work if there's an electrical fire. And if they now want to say the fire caused the pilots to pass out but the plane somehow kept flying on autopilot, then the plane would have continued going westward (assuming autopilot still worked.)

Here's the earlier military radar-based maps showing how whoever was piloting the plane flew by navigational waypoints, and avoided commercial radar:




(MSM link in Thread 6 Post 107)

Here's the map showing where the wreckage was found SW of Perth:



So, if the wreckage off of Perth IS #370, then that means there must've been another deliberate, southward turn at some point. Certainly that wasn't also due to mechanical trouble, as the plane didn't head toward land, but rather open sea.

Unless the military radar is lying, I just don't see how those two pieces spotted in waters west of Perth could be the aircraft. (If they ever do locate them, now.)

 

[CARIIS]

You guys , several of you have done bought "one child" up. I remeber the first time it came up here. I thought wow , I never thought of that angle .

AND Wolf (hate)just asked about 'One child" . In the last what 14 days NONE but you folks ever addressed it

kinda cool now I may be way off base .....

I also would love to hear your opinions about this guy on CNN now - I really like him more and more 9(never seen him) until MAl370

The one child policy doesn't apply to every Chinese citizen. Many demographers consider the term "one child policy" to be an improper name for the policy. In fact, the one child policy doesn't even apply to MOST Chinese citizens.

In 2007, the policy applied only to about 36% of China's population. You are excluded from the one child policy if:
- you live in a rural area & your first child is female or disabled
- one of the parents is an only child (until 2013, both parents had have no siblings)
- you are an ethnic minority
- Residents of Hong Kong & Macau are exempt
- you can pay a fee based on your income to have a second child

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

The policy is no doubt controversial and I am not trying to defend it, but there's a lot more to it than most Americans realize. I teach university geography, and while China is by no means my area of specialization, colleagues who study China and are from China are generally of the consensus that without the policy, many in China would have starved as the population got too large for the natural resources and economy of China to handle. In short, many people believe the policy saved a generation of Chinese from starving to death.

Yes, many female children are aborted, abandoned, or killed by infanticide and this is AWFUL. However, the policy has also led to much better opportunities for girls who are born to loving families. Whereas a family with three children (say one boy and two girls) once had to decide which child to educate if they only had money for one child to go to school, the boy would always be sent to school. Education and career opportunities for women in China have improved under the policy: "While the one-child policy seems to have “inadvertently” contributed to equality outcomes, according to a publication in the Journal of Family Issues last year, it has no less transformed prospects for women in urban China." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...he-status-and-prospects-of-girls-like-me.html The policy has improved gender equality and opportunities as well as standards of living for women in China (however, this is of course if you aren't aborted or abandoned or killed after birth).

Again, I'm not defending the policy. I generally think people should have as many - or as few - children as they feel they can financially and emotionally handle. Because of intense competition in China and the cost of raising & educating a child the best a family can, many Chinese (like many Americans & Europeans) who can have more than one child under the policy still only chose to have one. With one, they can put more money and time into giving that child every possible opportunity they can, which they may not be able to do for 2 kids or more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/d...licy-chinese-parents-say-having-two-v21566045

Sorry for the OT.

 

[aa9511]

Did this one in “word”!

I do not think anything more is happening today - weather.

As a professional, I also think, for the families, the folks working them are doing them a disservice at this point in time.. As I practiced, I discovered, especially with violent, unexpected death the biggest gift one can give the client is to support, encourage heading for authentic grief
.
In violent and unexpected death, anger must certainly be given a voice and some attention. But what I learned was, at the same time, it could be, and often was, for the survivors, an unconscious avoidance of doing the grief work.

The notions about what and why are cognitive undertakings. Typically, those questions did not involve any other feeling state than anger. That is fine – to a point. The truth, however, is authentic grief work begins when the individual works on saying goodbyes. That is the hard part, the feeling part, and is a process, but a process that does not start until the and why can be put behind. Putting them behind, however does not necessarily mean getting an answer.

And, interestingly, when handled well, down the road, it was helpful for the individual to be able to be OK with not needing the answer to what and why. That, in time, in it, could be helpful. Obviously it varied.

Saying goodbye is grieving – closure, in the true context of the notion. Their time has come to start that difficult journey …
.
Now, I have never worked with that culture – and that dynamic is huge, but it is time, for their healing to be authentic, and allow them to proceed, they need to move on, work through goodbye, try to grab acceptance, and allow themselves to feel goodbye
.
That is just what I learned treating survivors of violent death……..

Yes, I have been thinking about this a lot.

Trying to think what I would be thinking/feeling as a family member. I think I would still think there was some chance my loved one could be alive. Until I actually got definite confirmation.

Even if I discovered that many of the passengers deceased bodies were being found.

I would think, but maybe, somehow, this person made it somehow. Maybe some small boat picked him/her up. Maybe they are slowly making their way to land. Maybe the people (on the boat) can't speak their language...so they don't know he/she is a survivor of the crash. Maybe they don't even know there was a crash (because they are at sea, in a non-technological boat). Maybe they just dropped him/her off on an island somwhere.

I know this would all be irrational. But I feel like, I can understand how families would keep holding out hope, holding out hope, until they get some confirmation on their specific family member.

IDK.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

[CARIIS]

A Navy fighter pilot named Missy....oh the boys must have a field day.....

 

[Soulmagent]

The one child policy doesn't apply to every Chinese citizen. Many demographers consider the term "one child policy" to be an improper name for the policy. In fact, the one child policy doesn't even apply to MOST Chinese citizens.

In 2007, the policy applied only to about 36% of China's population. You are excluded from the one child policy if:
- you live in a rural area & your first child is female or disabled
- one of the parents is an only child (until 2013, both parents had have no siblings)
- you are an ethnic minority
- Residents of Hong Kong & Macau are exempt
- you can pay a fee based on your income to have a second child

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

The policy is no doubt controversial and I am not trying to defend it, but there's a lot more to it than most Americans realize. I teach university geography, and while China is by no means my area of specialization, colleagues who study China and are from China are generally of the consensus that without the policy, many in China would have starved as the population got too large for the natural resources and economy of China to handle. In short, many people believe the policy saved a generation of Chinese from starving to death.

Yes, many female children are aborted, abandoned, or killed by infanticide and this is AWFUL. However, the policy has also led to much better opportunities for girls who are born to loving families. Whereas a family with three children (say one boy and two girls) once had to decide which child to educate if they only had money for one child to go to school, the boy would always be sent to school. Education and career opportunities for women in China have improved under the policy: "While the one-child policy seems to have “inadvertently” contributed to equality outcomes, according to a publication in the Journal of Family Issues last year, it has no less transformed prospects for women in urban China." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...he-status-and-prospects-of-girls-like-me.html The policy has improved gender equality and opportunities as well as standards of living for women in China (however, this is of course if you aren't aborted or abandoned or killed after birth).

Again, I'm not defending the policy. I generally think people should have as many - or as few - children as they feel they can financially and emotionally handle. Because of intense competition in China and the cost of raising & educating a child the best a family can, many Chinese (like many Americans & Europeans) who can have more than one child under the policy still only chose to have one. With one, they can put more money and time into giving that child every possible opportunity they can, which they may not be able to do for 2 kids or more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/d...licy-chinese-parents-say-having-two-v21566045

Sorry for the OT.

I am sorry , I missed your point here?

 

[aa9511]

You guys , several of you have done bought "one child" up. I remeber the first time it came up here. I thought wow , I never thought of that angle .

AND Wolf (hate)just asked about 'One child" . In the last what 14 days NONE but you folks ever addressed it

kinda cool now I may be way off base .....

I also would love to hear your opinions about this guy on CNN now - I really like him more and more 9(never seen him) until MAl370

Are you talking about Bill Weir (on for Piers Morgan this week)?

Yes, I like him.

I think CNN is trying to have someone very "American" on that time slot....it was said the audience didn't like the fact that a Brit was speaking so forefully about "American" issues. I am thinking a big issue was the gun issue that Piers was so passionate about.

I am thinking that they are trying very hard to compete with FOX in that time slot, and Piers was just not getting the job done.

Anyway, Bill Weird used to be, or maybe still is, on Nightline on ABC. I don't know if he did any other work for ABC?

****LOL!! Not Bill Weird, Bill Weir. I am just going to leave it there Bill Weird b/c it looks so funny.

 

[fruity]

A few interesting bits and pieces.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national...iament-announcement?mch=mobilenh&mchpost=pos1


Speaking in Papua New Guinea this afternoon, Tony (note from me - not John ) Abbott acknowledged the 24m object found in the southern Indian Ocean yesterday could be just a shipping container.



Mr Abbott said the area of ocean 2500km southwest of Perth is one of the most inaccessible places on earth.

The strong currents in the area means the debris could be moving at as much as a metre a second.

The 23,000 square kilometre search area, about 2500km southwest of Perth, is in the body of water known as the Roaring Forties, where strong circumpolar westerly winds blow.

Waves of four metres to five metres are constant, but can swell to more than 10 metres during a storm.

If the debris spotted in the Indian Ocean is found to be from the missing Malaysia Airlines plane MH370, it could have drifted more than 500 kilometres from the crash site.

 

[Linda7NJ]

You guys , several of you have done bought "one child" up. I remeber the first time it came up here. I thought wow , I never thought of that angle .



AND Wolf (hate)just asked about 'One child" . In the last what 14 days NONE but you folks ever addressed it



kinda cool now I may be way off base .....



I also would love to hear your opinions about this guy on CNN now - I really like him more and more 9(never seen him) until MAl370

I can't bare to watch CNN.

I dvr'd one of my two favorite tv shows...and I'm gonna hop off... Relax my brain and watch SUITS!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Village Idiot]

MOO. It only seems fair that there be concrete evidence before blame is assigned. I've not seen such evidence myself. I feel so very bad for all involved.

.........On the opposite side of the Table, the deeper investigation may clear his name too.