Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #14

[CARIIS]

CNN is doing live tweet questions

I dont twitter

I wish one of you ask them :

why they are making the assumption they are about the amount of fuel before takeoff

TIA

 

[mck16]

Could be. My question (hopefully stated better) is I thought that the plane had beacons that would immediately transmit a signal if they came into contact with sea water but no transmission was emitted. Is there a reason that is plausible as to why the beacons have not transmitted any signals? Maybe it is a distance thing with the transmitters only reaching so far?

Okay, I understand now. I am not aware of that. I don't know. Maybe some one else does. jmo

 

[ToutCa]

I don't think RR received any info after 1:07. The engine pings to RR and the ACARS transmissions are two separate entities. ACARS transmissions aren't sent to RR.

From what I could make of the technicalities, the Rolls Royce engine pings are either embedded in the ACARS transmissions -- or derived from and dependent on them (no RR report is possible without a concurrent ACARS transmission). The full, larger ACARS report goes to the airline while a shorter version restricted to engine performance goes out in real-time to the manufacturer:

the engine data is filtered from a larger ACARS report covering all the plane's critical flight systems and avionics

Maybe someone else who gets all this techie stuff can further clarify?

 

[CARIIS]

w reported about the new image that was spo


but it looks like the exact same first chinese one


aused by fire is that I cannot see how the aircraft could have continued flying --intact-- for an additional 6-7 hours.

It cannot - it is just that simple IMO illogical nothing like that has every gotten even close ! Impossible - rule out fire! ....have compromised the integrity of the aircraft's structure totally the World Trade Center started to collapse in 90 minutes and as far as I know were not filled with 45 tons of jet fuel, flamable oil, hydrolgics, passenger foam seats, !!!!

 

[Boodles]

Could be. My question (hopefully stated better) is I thought that the plane had beacons that would immediately transmit a signal if they came into contact with sea water but no transmission was emitted. Is there a reason that is plausible as to why the beacons have not transmitted any signals? Maybe it is a distance thing with the transmitters only reaching so far?

Are you referring to ELT's (emergency locator transmitters)? Everyone on CNN is perplexed that none have transmitted since they are triggered by impact IIRC. It lends weight to a "the plane has landed" POV.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/malays...emergency-locator-transmitter-remains-mystery

 

[ToutCa]

Could be. My question (hopefully stated better) is I thought that the plane had beacons that would immediately transmit a signal if they came into contact with sea water but no transmission was emitted. Is there a reason that is plausible as to why the beacons have not transmitted any signals? Maybe it is a distance thing with the transmitters only reaching so far?

The water beacons (ELTs) only work on the surface or, some WS'ers say, in 4m or less of water.

In high-speed crashes into deep water, they don't work.

For example, in the Air France 447 disaster, the beacon (ELT) did not activate.

 

[Carmelita]

Thank you for the information on the water beacons. So if I am understanding correctly they would have gone down with the plane, or, debris rapidly enough as to not activate.

 

[CARIIS]

Type


Boeing 777-2H6ER
Operator:
Malaysia Airlines
Registration:
9M-MRO
C/n / msn:
28420/404
First flight:
2002-05-14 (11 years 10 months)
Total airframe hrs:
53465
Cycles:
7525
Engines:
2 Rolls-Royce Trent 892
Crew:
Fatalities: / Occupants: 12
Passengers:
Fatalities: / Occupants: 227
Total:
Fatalities: / Occupants: 239
Airplane damage:
Missing
Airplane fate:
Presumed damaged beyond repair
Location:
west of Malaysia ( Indian Ocean)
Phase:
En route (ENR)
Nature:
International Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport:
Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KUL/WMKK), Malaysia
Destination airport:
Beijing-Capital Airport (PEK/ZBAA), China
Flightnumber:
370

 

[Boodles]

CARIIS, what is that? ^^^^^

 

[Elley Mae]

Could be. My question (hopefully stated better) is I thought that the plane had beacons that would immediately transmit a signal if they came into contact with sea water but no transmission was emitted. Is there a reason that is plausible as to why the beacons have not transmitted any signals? Maybe it is a distance thing with the transmitters only reaching so far?

I hope this helps.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/black-box8.htm

If a plane crashes into the water, this beacon sends out an ultrasonic pulse that cannot be heard by human ears but is readily detectable by sonar and acoustical locating equipment. There is a submergence sensor on the side of the beacon that looks like a bull's-eye. When water touches this sensor, it activates the beacon.

The beacon sends out pulses at 37.5 kilohertz (kHz) and can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet (4,267 m). Once the beacon begins "pinging," it pings once per second for 30 days.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/20/us-malaysia-airlines-blackbox-idUKBREA2J02H20140320

He said other potentially cheaper proposals included outfitting planes with floating locator or data recorder beacons that would automatically deploy if an airplane crashed.

 

[panthera]

CNN is doing live tweet questions

I dont twitter

I wish one of you ask them :

why they are making the assumption they are about the amount of fuel before takeoff

TIA

They wouldn't have to assume. There would be a record kept by the airline as to how much fuel was put in the jet.



MOO

 

[Boodles]

Thank you for the information on the water beacons. So if I am understanding correctly they would have gone down with the plane, or, debris rapidly enough as to not activate.

They're intended to deploy upon impact or submersion in water. But there are instances when they don't deploy. An example might be if a plane went nose first at 500 mph vertically straight into the ocean and the ELT did not deploy on impact, but rather went down deep, it might not work as desired. That's the non-technical explanation.

ETA: never mind, Elly Mae's answer ^^^ was far superior!

 

[Carmelita]

can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet

****

Thanks that was my next question.

 

[QueenD]

Do pallets usually have markings on them? Like company name or something?

Most don't ...

 

[Peliman]

From what I could make of the technicalities, the Rolls Royce engine pings are either embedded in the ACARS transmissions -- or derived from and dependent on them (no RR report is possible without a concurrent ACARS transmission). The full, larger ACARS report goes to the airline while a shorter version restricted to engine performance goes out in real-time to the manufacturer:

Maybe someone else who gets all this techie stuff can further clarify?

I'll let you hear from the horses mouth. This company also tracks the ACARS signal and other systems from the aircraft. You must listen to the interview to get all the details about the system, link provided and very informative.

------------------------------
Inmarsat is a technical advisor to the investigation and the company’s senior vice president Chris McLaughlin said it was his company who determined that the plane’s signals continued to be received for a several hours after takeoff.

“Just like a cell phone, each piece of equipment has its own SIM card and its own registration number,” McLaughlin said. “We’re absolutely certain we were seeing the readings from this particular aircraft.”

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/20/inmarsat-flight-370s-location

 

[ilovepierre]

Thank you for the information on the water beacons. So if I am understanding correctly they would have gone down with the plane, or, debris rapidly enough as to not activate.

Yes, that is correct


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[PoirotryInMotion]

They wouldn't have to assume. There would be a record kept by the airline as to how much fuel was put in the jet.



MOO

Of course, an airlines owned and controlled by what is widely acknowledged to be a corrupt government isn't necessarily going to have records you could bet the family farm on... JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

snipped

Within five days of the Air France Airbus 330’s plunge into the Atlantic, search teams found the first major wreckage from the airplane — a seat, a barrel, an orange buoy and what were described as “white pieces.”

Within two weeks, 50 bodies had been recovered in two groups, separated by more than 50 miles. Twenty-five days after the crash, Brazilian officials ended the search after collecting 640 pieces of debris.

But no black box. It took almost two years, until May 2011, for the box to be located on the ocean floor.

The hunt for that box was exhaustive.

Much more at link...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...1cb3d8-a8a2-11e3-b61e-8051b8b52d06_story.html

 

[Boodles]

Article March 22 about ELT and beacon:

Aviation safety experts have been perplexed why the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777, missing for thirteen days and widely believed to have crashed, did not emit any signal. Cospas Sarsat, the global satellite system for search and rescue, too, has confirmed no signal was received from flight MH-370.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-not-function-under-water-114032100667_1.html

 

[ilovepierre]

CARIIS, what is that? ^^^^^

Ya, I'd like to know that too!


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