Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #14

[CARIIS]

It for the 737 but gives you an idea of how the plane talks (literally!) to the pilots when something is wrong: Turn up vol a sometimes he talks over!)

737 Audio Warning Explained (FSX) - YouTube

 

[nomoresorrow]

This is my first post so please don't bite me , i guess ppl have seen this and i was wondering if ppl thought it was a valid senario ?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/V...ing_plane_goes_viral.html#DDRV3xRufbJv7kUW.01

Welcome moomin!

Looking at a map (Google Earth), I can understand how someone could draw that conclusion based on the aircraft's left turn. I'm no expert, but based on the runway on Langkawi, the left turn and initial NW direction would make sense in terms of the pilot's aiming to loop around (turning south/southeast) in order to line up for a landing on that particular runway. Obviously, if this was the case, the pilots --for some unknown reason-- were not able to complete the loop and land at Langkawi and, instead continued flying south toward the Indian ocean. The problem that I have with this being caused by fire is that I cannot see how the aircraft could have continued flying --intact-- for an additional 6-7 hours.

Likewise, had it been caused by cabin de-pressurization, would it be possible for an aircraft of that size to continue flying --intact-- for an additional 6-7 hours? Additionally, would/could whatever caused the depressurization also, simultaneously, cause failure of the transponder and ACARS? Like another poster mentioned (sorry can't recall who), for either of these scenarios to have occurred, it would also have required a number of coincidences to have occurred along side. If I were to choose one scenerio over another, it would be de-pressurization over a fire. The fire (whether started by something in the cargo hold or electrical...) just doesn't make sense to me. As I said, a fire would have compromised the integrity of the aircraft's structure and I just don't see how it could have flown on for 6-7 hours... JMO ~

 

[ilovepierre]

Don't beacons and seats already float?

Beacons float for a short period of time.
Which is why they activate when they're lying on the surface of water.
Once they go under 4 meters, they can't emit a signal anymore.

 

[ilovepierre]

Also, has there been anything new reported about the new image that was spotted?

 

[SouthAussie]

Originally Posted by ToutCa View Post
The "engine data" pings went back to Rolls Royce (the engine manufacturer), not Boeing.

There was an initial story that sources at Rolls Royce claimed engine data continued for "4-5 hours" after the transponder went silent. But when Malaysia balked, Rolls Royce backed down and issued a public statement saying they got no engine data back after 1:07am.

Rolls Royce never said anything about the possible location of the plane. But they could well know more about engine data in the plane's final hours (including occasional altitude and -- maybe -- heading readings?) than they have been willing to reveal. They've been very hush-hush after the first couple days.Boeing might have known right away because it's their aircraft and Rolls has provided the engines. As soon as they get a report that the plane may have crashed they would start their investigation. Rolls would not keep that from them and it is possible Boeing may have been monitoring the data as well.

Years ago I worked for an engine manufacturing company in their telegraph department and the notice of a crash or a missing plane would come in over the wires and we immediately called the engineer on duty with the report. I don't know that Boeing monitors the engines themselves but I would not be surprised.

I think they may know more, too. jmo

I believe that there are quite a few companies and agencies that have data that is being kept quiet from public scrutiny. I also believe their data is being used in the search efforts. That is why so much money and so many resources are being thrown at this.

I grew up as a child of parents who worked at highly restricted facilities in the Australian outback.

There are a number of highly restricted facilities here – a couple have been mentioned in MSM. Some have not been mentioned.

The problem here is that our capabilities of searching in deep water are limited. Searching on land (anyone’s land) and listening to chatter … not such a problem.

My heartfelt thoughts are with all the families of the crew and passengers of MH370.

All my opinion only

 

[ilovepierre]

RR and/or Boeing probably do know more than they are saying, but for security reasons, they are keeping a lot of stuff hush-hush. Same with MA and the Malaysian government and law enforcement.

They aren't obligated to tell the public everything they knew. They have to preserve the investigation as much as they can.

JMO

 

[ToutCa]

Boeing might have known right away because it's their aircraft and Rolls has provided the engines. As soon as they get a report that the plane may have crashed they would start their investigation. Rolls would not keep that from them and it is possible Boeing may have been monitoring the data as well.

Years ago I worked for an engine manufacturing company in their telegraph department and the notice of a crash or a missing plane would come in over the wires and we immediately called the engineer on duty with the report. I don't know that Boeing monitors the engines themselves but I would not be surprised.

I think they may know more, too. jmo

The actual "engine-data" pings from MH-370 were sent to Rolls Royce, not Boeing.

That's why the journalists hounded Rolls Royce for "engine-data" info.

But then it gets interesting. Initial reports said engine-data pings kept coming after the plane vanished:

According to the Journal report, engine data that includes altitude and speed but not direction or position were sent from Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 for four hours after the plane went missing.

Later on, Rolls Royce claimed nothing was received after 1:07am. What sounded fishy at the time may make sense:

Aviation experts tell CBS News the engine data would have been transmitted to Malaysia Airlines ground control, and then possibly on to Rolls Royce, by a decades-old system known as ACARS. The simple data transmission system is widely used in commercial aviation, and sends automated messages on virtually every operating system on an aircraft to the ground at regular intervals.

We know ACARS transmitted its last data at 1:07am and then was disabled by 1:37am. If the engine-data pings are not independent of the regular ACARS messages, then it's true that Rolls Royce got nothing after 1:07am.

If it's false, then Rolls Royce possibly got some occasional altitude/speed data in the final hours of flight. Yes, they would have later passed such data on to Boeing. No, even if it exists, it wouldn't be nearly enough on its own to narrow down the plane's final March 8 location.

 

[Isabelle]

DEBRIS including a wooden pallet has been spotted by one of the aircraft searching for missing flight MH370, Prime Minister Tony Abbott has revealed.

http://www.news.com.au/world/missin...-in-indian-ocean/story-fndir2ev-1226862354302

Wonder if pallets had any markings on them!

 

[ilovepierre]

I don't think RR received any info after 1:07. The engine pings to RR and the ACARS transmissions are two separate entities. ACARS transmissions aren't sent to RR.

 

[21merc7]

"A civil aircraft... reported sighting a number of small objects with the naked eye, including a wooden pallet, within a radius of five kilometres," AMSA said.

"A Royal New Zealand Air Force P3 Orion aircraft with specialist electro-optic observation equipment was diverted to the location, arriving after the first aircraft left but only reported sighting clumps of seaweed."

The Orion dropped a marker buoy to track the movement of the material and a merchant ship in the 36,000-square-kilometre area was tasked with relocating and seeking to identify the material.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/401290/mh370-search-spots-new-debris

 

[ilovepierre]

Wonder if pallets had any markings on them!

Do pallets usually have markings on them? Like company name or something?

 

[21merc7]

Of hope, prayer and solidarity for lives on board MH370

It was a vigil that sent a message to the world that Malaysians stood in solidarity with family members of passengers and crew members on board missing flight MH370. In fact, it was an event that was different from all the speculation and media reporters and press briefings that provided information in dribs and drabs.

#UniteforMH370 was that vigil. Participants from all walks of life thronged The Curve, a major shopping stop for urbanites, last Tuesday and lit candles and said prayers.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...rayer-and-solidarity-for-lives-on-board-mh370

 

[lawstudent]

It has been two weeks. Haven't heard of either one being found so I would have to say they are not made to be an identifier in case of a crash in the ocean.

A beacon can't magically float and contain a location device though - it has to have something keep it afloat. So if they can't find it before it deflates or it becomes trapped underwater, it's not helpful. Same with seats - you have to actually inflate them first. I imagine they employ a reaction like an airbag to inflate, but that only can work so long. If the plane crashed in a way that things can't surface, nothing could really help.

 

[CARIIS]

BBM.
If I remember right, a safety check was done 2 weeks prior to the flight and everything was all good.

I don't know the answers to the other questions, though. Anyone else?[/QUOTE



There are four designated A -D

two weeks ago it had the A check

A-- check -500 - 800 flight hours or 200 - 400 cycles. ( Cycle is a takeoff/cruise/landing that is one cycle) It needs about 20 - 50 man-hours - its the most basic

B---4–6 months.- It needs about 150 man-hours-- and is usually performed within 1–3 days

c---20–24 months or a specific amount of actual flight hours (FH) as defined by the manufacturer.--- 1–2 weeks and the effort involved can require up to 6000 man-hours

D-- comprehensive and demanding every 5 years-basically, 2 months to complete---- costs million dollar range.

Aircraft maintenance checks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

]

 

[panthera]

BBM ~ I don't think the 777 is designed to land on water. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. :seeya:

Neither is the Airbus A320-214 however Captain Sullenberger did it on the Hudson River! Seriously, landing "safely" on the Indian Ocean, not so sure after seeing that strong current. It truly would be a miracle, in my opinion.

MOO

 

[Carmelita]

I have a question which has probably already been answered, can anyone tell me what Malaysia, the US or the pundits are saying is the reason that none of the saltwater beacons have gone off? Other than the possibility of a catastrophic explosion that would have blown even the beacons up?

 

[alioop]

Has anyone floated the theory that this was just done plain and simple for the money?
By that I mean one person, in dire straits, decided to take this plane out (disregarding all other lives on board) just to give his/her family a pretty large sum of money?
I know that sounds crazy, but to a very poor family in a 3rd world (or close to it) country, a payout for a disaster like this is life changing, possibly for generations.


ETA-There were 154 Chinese passengers on board the missing flight and most of the Chinese passengers on the plane had purchased accident or life insurance policies, according to major Chinese insurers.

In the silk air crash in Indonesia, the pilot was in serious financial difficulties and took out life insurance in the week before the crash. It came into effect the day of the crash. It is believed that he deliberately crashed the plane.

SilkAir Flight 185 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mck16]

I have a question which has probably already been answered, can anyone tell me what Malaysia, the US or the pundits are saying is the reason that none of the saltwater beacons have gone off? Other than the possibility of a catastrophic explosion that would have blown even the beacons up?

I believe that is what they are looking for. Am I understanding your question? ty

 

[Carmelita]

A beacon can't magically float and contain a location device though - it has to have something keep it afloat. So if they can't find it before it deflates or it becomes trapped underwater, it's not helpful. Same with seats - you have to actually inflate them first. I imagine they employ a reaction like an airbag to inflate, but that only can work so long. If the plane crashed in a way that things can't surface, nothing could really help.

My understanding is that the seats themselves are made of a buoyant material (not inflatable). They would become waterlogged and sink after a certain amount of time if they were free floating in the ocean and not entombed in the body of the plane.

 

[Carmelita]

I believe that is what they are looking for. Am I understanding your question? ty

Could be. My question (hopefully stated better) is I thought that the plane had beacons that would immediately transmit a signal if they came into contact with sea water but no transmission was emitted. Is there a reason that is plausible as to why the beacons have not transmitted any signals? Maybe it is a distance thing with the transmitters only reaching so far?