Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #16

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We're no closer to understanding MH-370's disappearance than the day the military radar track was released:

rCLk77V.jpg


Pilot as hero: Sudden fire/explosion/catastrophe. Pilot heads west to Langkawi airport, but can't control descent. Turns to Phuket airport, still can't control descent, aborts landing. Turns out over ocean, tries to gain control of plane enough to land, fails, passes out as emergency progresses.

Pilot as villain: Suffering a personal crisis (or for some other motive) one pilot disables all on board, possibly de-pressurizeing plane at 43,000 feet. He carefully maneuvers plane out to sea and aimlessly flies off into the sunrise.

Pilot as victim: Hijackers invade cockpit and order diversion. Maybe hijackers are deranged, maybe bent on crashing the plane in the ocean, maybe flight crew/passengers put up a struggle resulting in hypoxia incident.

One of the above must be true. But there's still no solid evidence for which one.

THanks for the excellent map.

As I said yesterday, anyone looking at that path, and then comparing to ATC border lines, can see that the path has exact same shape (path) as the border ATC lines. IMO.

There is no doubt in my mind that someone was purposefullly trying to fly stealth and undetected.

The only question is, IMO, who was that person or persons?

JMO.
 
We're no closer to understanding MH-370's disappearance than the day the military radar track was released:

rCLk77V.jpg


Pilot as hero: Sudden fire/explosion/catastrophe. Pilot heads west to Langkawi airport, but can't control descent. Turns to Phuket airport, still can't control descent, aborts landing. Turns out over ocean, tries to gain control of plane enough to land, fails, passes out as emergency progresses.

Pilot as villain: Suffering a personal crisis (or for some other motive) one pilot disables all on board, possibly de-pressurizing plane at 43,000 feet. He carefully maneuvers plane out to sea and aimlessly flies off into the sunrise.

Pilot as victim: Hijackers invade cockpit and order diversion. Maybe hijackers are deranged, maybe bent on crashing the plane in the ocean, maybe flight crew/passengers put up a struggle resulting in hypoxia incident.

One of the above must be true. But there's still no solid evidence for which one.

I have added a map which shows the air space borders. The area of interest is the one which goes over the Malaysian peninsula, and ends with the waypoint west of Phuket, Thailand.
 

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It may be wise for airlines to have a third pilot in the cockpit jump seat on bigger planes. Seems it may help prevent some of the things that cause crashes (pilot error, hijack, pilot suicide).


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I love this idea. It seems years ago, it was more common and I think due to cost cutting or something it faded out. Would love to see it required to have 3 pilots/co-pilots on board.
 
But only 2 were in the cockpit when the errors occurred.


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Hello LittleRose....Would you mind giving more description of the sequence of events and what happened when your plane lost cabin pressure.

Would love to hear as much as you can describe about that experience. Like did masks fall down, Were people screaming, how was the drop, did you leave the seat and belts held you down, did your ears pop, any pain in headache, anybody get hurt, did captains say anything....as much as you can remember and share would be appreciated. It would be good if you could do it step by step in order if you can.

If you dont want to share, I understand or if you dont have time. Thats ok.
 
The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is believed to be solely responsible for the flight being taken hundreds of miles off course and there is no evidence of a mechanical failure or hijacking by a passenger, according to a source involved in the investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/

I dont understand how the person in this article can claim no mechanical failure, or hijacking when none of the planes debri has been found, or investigated..

just scratching my head on this
 
Do you have a link? Passed out? Or would they be deceased?

In the case of a decompression of any kind...
They would be passed out and unaware of what was happening...
However they may have still had a heartbeat for hours.
Even if the plane landed safely the brain damage would be too much to recover from.

In the Helios 522 flight... it decompressed and flew on auto pilot for 2.5 hours or so until it crashed.
Everyone except the one flight attendant using extra oxygen was totally passed out the full 2.5 hours.

"Autopsies add more mystery to the case, everyone on board the plane was alive at the time of the crash."

That is at about 18:00 in the documentary here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivF-hep9H2o&list=PLpk2k4TVmH5jy09iZ2NQuBDiGCo0qESyW

Just keep that in mind everyone, in case we have the opportunity to do autopsies in this case.
Even if someone is found to have been alive when the plane impacted, it doesn't mean they were AWARE.

Decompression and passing out is the best possible scenario in a fatal plane crash.
People are not aware they will crash... they don't suffer as the plane spirals down.
I certainly hope that is the way these 239 people died. :twocents:
 
The search for the missing Boeing 777 is taking place in a section of the southern Indian Ocean known as the “Roaring Forties” for the strong westerly winds that blow between latitude 40 degrees and 50 degrees.

University of New South Wales oceanographer Dr Erik van Seville said the area was characterised by cold fronts that sweep east every four to five days, causing pounding 6m waves and churning up the icy seas.

“This is the beginning of the roaring 40s, where the influence of the Antarctic continent starts,” he said.

“The winds become very strong, the water temperature is about 4 degrees and the waves are very high.”

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...-in-indian-ocean/story-fnizu68q-1226863821771
 
Do we know if that would still be true as close as they were to Perth and as low as they were flying? What if they tried to send texts at any time, would they go through later?

I have a feeling everyone on board was dead before the plane made it to Perth.
 
But only 2 were in the cockpit when the errors occurred.

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That was unbelievable to me.
The most experienced pilot leaving the cockpit as they were getting ready to fly into a storm.
Then the 2nd pilot actually pulling UP when the plane stalls.
Then the third pilot not realizing that the 2nd pilot was pulling up the whole time. :facepalm:

It just goes to show that not everyone responds like Captain Sully...
and sometimes a perfectly benign issue turns into a plane crash because the pilots respond incorrectly.
Some of these crashes nobody ever would have believed what the cause was.

2 pilots flew their plane into the ground because they were trying to fix the navigation system.
Other pilots have crashed because they didn't interpret warning systems correctly, or ignored them.

Yet another pilot lands his with no engines on a levy with no damage or injuries.
And another pilot manages to land his safely on the Hudson River.

Pilots are still human and human error is a huge issue when they do minimal manual flying. :twocents:
 
That was unbelievable to me.
The most experienced pilot leaving the cockpit as they were getting ready to fly into a storm.
Then the 2nd pilot actually pulling UP when the plane stalls.
Then the third pilot not realizing that the 2nd pilot was pulling up the whole time. :facepalm:

It just goes to show that not everyone responds like Captain Sully...
and sometimes a perfectly benign issue turns into a plane crash because the pilots respond incorrectly.
Some of these crashes nobody ever would have believed what the cause was.

2 pilots flew their plane into the ground because they were trying to fix the navigation system.
Other pilots have crashed because they didn't interpret warning systems correctly, or ignored them.

Yet another pilot lands his with no engines on a levy with no damage or injuries.
And another pilot manages to land his safely on the Hudson River.

Pilots are still human and human error is a huge issue when they do minimal manual flying. :twocents:

I got to watching some Utube videos of crashes last night to better understand what causes some of them.

There was this 1 small plane flying in colorado and he flew into a valley of mountains and he didnt realize the mountains on each side of him were going upwards and he got himself into a trap and by the time he tried to turn right he did not have the power in his small plane to make the turn. He panicked and stalled the plane and it was very frightening to watch. And very sad. Both people died on plane. They found the plane and video footage 3 years later.

Most people think he got carried away sightseeing for his passenger and did not realize the mountains were going upwards.

ETA - Found link...Dont watch if you dont feel you can take it. Very sad

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzDSq6m2zV4"]Fatal Plane Crash Recorded From Inside The Plane - YouTube[/ame]
 
Thought of it b/c I remembered when I went ‘swimming’ in the Dead Sea (highest salt concentration on earth) the presence of salt in water actually affects buoyancy. Not so noticeable in a choppy salt water sea, maybe, but in the Dead Sea, you really can’t sink due to the overabundance of salt. Makes for very fun photo ops, floating on your back in 2 feet of water reading a newspaper, etc.
I tried to walk in it, very rocky bottom, and cut my knee. Stung like h*ll from the salt!
 
You know, I've been hesitant to blame anyone for this tragedy, because we just don't seem to have a lot of information, and it makes me sad to blame someone who could be potentially innocent. But I had a thought after reading this: this captain knew jets in and out, with his simulator and all. What if, this is pilot suicide/homicide, and he purposely crashed into an area he knew would be difficult for investigators to find a black box? If he was feeling very vindictive and angry at the world, it could almost be a little posthumous psychological game. This is just my opinion and an idea, and I could be completely off, and I almost hope that I am.
No, I think you're right. I think he planned this suicide mission on his flight simulator- whether it was political or because his wife left him- who knows, maybe both. Just too bad that he had to take over 200 people with him!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
You know, I've been hesitant to blame anyone for this tragedy, because we just don't seem to have a lot of information, and it makes me sad to blame someone who could be potentially innocent. But I had a thought after reading this: this captain knew jets in and out, with his simulator and all. What if, this is pilot suicide/homicide, and he purposely crashed into an area he knew would be difficult for investigators to find a black box? If he was feeling very vindictive and angry at the world, it could almost be a little posthumous psychological game. This is just my opinion and an idea, and I could be completely off, and I almost hope that I am.

What if he knew the plane was doomed, from mechanical, electrical or other physical failure or from hijacker demand to hit a target, or whatever, and what if he intentionally directed the plane onto a track where he knew no other victims would be created? Maybe he was in and out of consciousness, dying, and put the plane on an out-to-sea course so no one on the ground was killed as well? At this moment/hour, this is what I'm choosing to think. It's just easier and nothing else makes any darn sense.

There's no way I believe that the pilot committed suicide due to a marital or political issue. It doesn't fit.
 
Shouldnt a China ship be there full time in the search area now and not have to come back at nightfall. I could have sworn I read the other day a china ship was entering the area.

By now, ships should be there FULL TIME and keep looking. At least the china ship.

We desparately need a diver from a ship to jump in the water, grab a piece, make confirmation from plane, and then a satellite phone call to Aussie mainland to let them make the announcement.

Oh noooooooo, I don't think they should be jumping in that water unless they're triple-tethered by super duper strength material with a jet pack!

Using mechanical devices, sure, but my heart is pounding at the thought of a human in that ocean.
 
It may be wise for airlines to have a third pilot in the cockpit jump seat on bigger planes. Seems it may help prevent some of the things that cause crashes (pilot error, hijack, pilot suicide).


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$$$$$$$$, the airlines say in response to your idea... ;)
 
Hello LittleRose....Would you mind giving more description of the sequence of events and what happened when your plane lost cabin pressure.

Would love to hear as much as you can describe about that experience. Like did masks fall down, Were people screaming, how was the drop, did you leave the seat and belts held you down, did your ears pop, any pain in headache, anybody get hurt, did captains say anything....as much as you can remember and share would be appreciated. It would be good if you could do it step by step in order if you can.

If you dont want to share, I understand or if you dont have time. Thats ok.

I'm not LittleRose, but maybe I can help too. :) This was HulaDad's flight not too long ago:

LearJet at 15000' (short hop between Edmonton and Calgary):

1. Door seal blew. No noise or indications for passengers other than masks dropping.
2. Pilots applied masks. Pax applied masks.
3. Initiated emergency descent below 10000
4. Notifed ATC and asked for priority emergency landing.
5. Landed safely with emerg. vehicles waiting but not needed.

This is when everything works perfectly - you will not suffer hypoxia *quickly* at 15000' anyway. At a typical airline cruising altitude, it's a different story. If the masks do not drop, if they are not applied correctly, if oxygen does not flow, etc., you have mere seconds before you start becoming hypoxic. Seconds. Like, count to 12. Then your confusion could keep you from applying a mask or problem solving the next step. It's terrifying.

It's the reason airlines are limited to operating below 41000. At that altitude, the air is so lacking in oxygen, that you would have more like 3-5 seconds before needing supplementary oxygen. :(
 
Hello LittleRose....Would you mind giving more description of the sequence of events and what happened when your plane lost cabin pressure.



Would love to hear as much as you can describe about that experience. Like did masks fall down, Were people screaming, how was the drop, did you leave the seat and belts held you down, did your ears pop, any pain in headache, anybody get hurt, did captains say anything....as much as you can remember and share would be appreciated. It would be good if you could do it step by step in order if you can.



If you dont want to share, I understand or if you dont have time. Thats ok.


1. Startling drop from the sky that took several seconds. It seemed like a straight vertical drop but I assume we were going forward as well.

2. Very quiet. Nobody said a word. I was scared to death. Finally got up the nerve to ask a gentlemen next to me, "what's going on? Are we going to be ok".

3. If I remember correctly, he was/had been in the Air Force. He said, "We lost cabin pressure. The pilot did the right thing. We're now flying low enough that we can breath safely on our own. Do you feel the hypoxia? We were without oxygen for a short period of time."

4. At his suggestion, I took note that something was different. I felt a bit groggy, drowsy, slow (or thick headed), almost like a buzz from alcohol. I noticed this after the fact and remembered the sensation of pressure or slow motion when the depressurization was occurring but I was not conscious of it happening when it was happening. After we dropped, things seemed to speed up, especially my thought processes. That is when the fear kicked in (not terror but I could have gotten there quickly).

5. The pilot said nothing. The crew said nothing. It was scary as hell.

6. Oxygen masks did not drop. I asked the Air Force guy why. He said, "Maybe the pilot overrode the system or maybe he caught it early enough to prevent them from dropping." I was concerned that they weren't working.

7. At some point, the pilot finally announced that we were landing in Indianapolis to do maintenance checks. It was the closest airport after the depressurization.

8. After 45 minutes, the gate attendant announced that everything checked out ok except the cabin pressurization system and that we were going to re-board the plane and fly low to Chicago (so we wouldn't need a pressurized cabin). The airlines did not offer to put us on other flights or to find a new plane for us.

9. All the sheeple (including myself) boarded the plane. I didn't notice anyone protesting or asking to be rebooked. I was a nervous wreak, wondering if they were wrong and there were major problems with the plane.

10. After takeoff, I looked for reassurance from the men sitting around me. The Air Force guy was no longer seated next to me. I think he was up close to the pilots. Another engineering type guy explained that the problem with flying low is that we lost our ability to glide if something went wrong. I was disgusted that we were all stupid enough to re-board and the airlines was willing to risk lives to save money. Thankfully, we landed safely in Chicago.

I hope the people on the 370 flight died quickly from hypoxia rather than after hours of terror. My short experience with hypoxia was painless and I wasn't conscious of what was happening when it was happening. I've read that it's one of the more peaceful ways to die; you just go to sleep. I hope that's true and that's what happened.




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Oh noooooooo, I don't think they should be jumping in that water unless they're triple-tethered by super duper strength material with a jet pack!

Using mechanical devices, sure, but my heart is pounding at the thought of a human in that ocean.

Do they have mechanical ways to get debri plucked from ocean?

I was thinking along the lines of when we see frogmen jump into the ocean as experienced frogmen do it as part of their job. Usually search and rescue type people is where I have seen footage of them doing it. Usually from helicopters.
 
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