Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #16

[Hatfield]

Interesting. The Maldives sightings were discounted because they do not fit with the satellite-ping data interpretation of where the plane was.

The object found on the beach sure looks like a Boeing fire suppression bottle.

If it turns out to be from MH-370, either the plane went down somewhere somewhat near there, or it flew by with such cabin structural damage that parts of it were falling off...

That is very interesting. Wonder if it was more of the latter with structural damage, automatic extinguishers put out fire, loses this part, decompression knocks out pilots but he gets auto pilot on before losing consionsness, plane flies on south.

I once was on a beach looking for shells and found a scuba diving apparatus that looked important and had scary thoughts about who may have lost it and if they were still alive.

 

[aa9511]

When the plane ran out of fuel, the engine would stop. I think that's what the "partial ping" registered. What else would prompt a ping from 370? The engines were the reason that the pings were being transmitted, by Rolls Royce's design, to gauge engine performance. Some event triggered a "non-routine," i.e., non-hourly out of cycle, ping. When you consider miles traveled, fuel levels, etc., it seems this was the end of the line for the engines.

This is so important because it narrows down when and where the plane may have gone down. It's possible, per the pilots I have listened to, that the 777 could have then glided subsequent to the engines stopping, so they still have to consider gliding capacity and distance. But it still eliminates much of the original search area by fixing the engine shutdown at 8 minutes after the prior ping.

It's a nightmare though, that the currents and winds are adding a huge amount of variability into the search.

Yes, I agree that this is probably what happened.

Since they (Imarsat, Malaysia, etc.) have certainly had this partial ping information, maybe they have indeed put it into their calculations, and that is one reason they came up with the specific search area they did?

 

[QueenD]

Just "googled" aircraft fire suppression bottle...images...sure looks like one on the beach.

This news article has picture of it with a little bit of news.

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54178

 

[aa9511]

ETA - Deleted my response as I was wrong and am quite surprised. A pilot can make it glide pretty far. Link below

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2499076/

Hmm....but if I'm reading it right, you pretty much need a pilot in control of the glide, to do throttle and that stuff.

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[popsicle]

The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is believed to be solely responsible for the flight being taken hundreds of miles off course and there is no evidence of a mechanical failure or hijacking by a passenger, according to a source involved in the investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/

 

[JerseyGirl]

This news article has picture of it with a little bit of news.

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54178

take that and this theory:

Chris Goodfellow, a Canadian pilot with 20 years’ experience, said in a post on Google Plus that he believed a fire broke out aboard the plane.

In his post, which also appeared on Reddit and was widely reported, he said that the plane's pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah was doing exactly what he needed to do in an emergency – try to land the plane at the nearest airport.

In this case, Goodfellow said, that was a 13,000 foot strip on the island of Palau Langkawi, and that is directly where the aircraft was heading when it was last tracked.

He believed that the crew were overcome by smoke and the aircraft flew as a "ghost plane" for hours past the chosen airport before finally crashing into the Indian Ocean near the Maldives.

"We old pilots were always drilled to always know the closest airport of safe harbour while in cruise. Always," Goodfellow had said. "Instinctively when I saw that left turn with a direct heading I knew he was heading for an airport."

He said he immediately brought up Google Earth and discovered the runway, which had fewer obstacles blocking the plane's approach than if Zaharie had attempted to return to Kuala Lumpur.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...maximum-altitude-may-have-caused-hypoxia-says

 

[Momoffourboys]

Totally O/T but infuriating!

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/...-Boston-Marathon-bomb-suspect-Tsarnaev-346504

 

[aa9511]

I have read about a connection between psychopathy and *test* pilots, but not airline pilots. That's a whole different group of people. But I am always interested in learning more.

But let me tell ya, if airline pilots are a psychologically unstable bunch and an event like a spouse leaving can push them to mass murder, airplanes would be falling out of the sky every day of the week.

In fact, the only thing I found unusual about the captain is that he made it to age 53 and was still married to his first wife. They stayed together long enough to raise children to adulthood. That's a rarity in aviation, IMO. and actually points towards stability in my mind.

bbm

Interesting perspective, thanks.

I would imagine it would be hard for pilots to maintain a strong marriage for a long time - given the amount of time they are away from the home. Having one spouse away certainly does put some strain on a marriage, b/c you are not with that person day in and day out to keep fostering those bonds. A little space is good, and too much togetherness can be damaging too (IMO), but it has to be the right balance or else both people have to work consciously at making it work.

I don't want to pull the discussion towards culture, etc., but I would like to point out that probably Malaysia's culture is very much a "group" culture, like many cultures in the East are. IMO, this makes it less likely that the pilot would just go crazy one day on a suicidal mission. I'm not saying there would not be or are not mentally unstable people, I'm just saying that IMO, the chance of an otherwise "normal" man to become suddenly mentally unstable, I just don't see. I think isolation leads to a lot of mental problems coming to surface, but Captain Shah did not seem to be a lonely man. Even if he and his wife were having problems, he probably had a close relationship to his mother, father, siblings, other relatives, and friends. Not to mention his children. In the Eastern cultures, relationships go far beyond husband and wife, with both sets of parents being very involved, as well as other relatives.

This is JMO from what I've seen from friends and some travelling.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I don't have the link but for looking the package they did not buy for this plane was Boeings AeroMobile service

http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysia-air...ter-upgrade-could-have-provided-key-satellite

 

[silsby]

The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is believed to be solely responsible for the flight being taken hundreds of miles off course and there is no evidence of a mechanical failure or hijacking by a passenger, according to a source involved in the investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/

You know, I've been hesitant to blame anyone for this tragedy, because we just don't seem to have a lot of information, and it makes me sad to blame someone who could be potentially innocent. But I had a thought after reading this: this captain knew jets in and out, with his simulator and all. What if, this is pilot suicide/homicide, and he purposely crashed into an area he knew would be difficult for investigators to find a black box? If he was feeling very vindictive and angry at the world, it could almost be a little posthumous psychological game. This is just my opinion and an idea, and I could be completely off, and I almost hope that I am.

 

[21merc7]

take that and this theory:

Chris Goodfellow, a Canadian pilot with 20 years’ experience, said in a post on Google Plus that he believed a fire broke out aboard the plane.

In his post, which also appeared on Reddit and was widely reported, he said that the plane's pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah was doing exactly what he needed to do in an emergency – try to land the plane at the nearest airport.

In this case, Goodfellow said, that was a 13,000 foot strip on the island of Palau Langkawi, and that is directly where the aircraft was heading when it was last tracked.

He believed that the crew were overcome by smoke and the aircraft flew as a "ghost plane" for hours past the chosen airport before finally crashing into the Indian Ocean near the Maldives.

"We old pilots were always drilled to always know the closest airport of safe harbour while in cruise. Always," Goodfellow had said. "Instinctively when I saw that left turn with a direct heading I knew he was heading for an airport."

He said he immediately brought up Google Earth and discovered the runway, which had fewer obstacles blocking the plane's approach than if Zaharie had attempted to return to Kuala Lumpur.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...maximum-altitude-may-have-caused-hypoxia-says

Wow! And this about an incident he was involved in, must have been a very trying and frustrating 11 years for him! Poor guy!:

Even though he was behind the controls, he still didn't find out the full account of what happened until declassified files were released 11 years later.

(And, I believe him when he says some agency knows something but cannot give that info to the public at this time.)

 

[time]

The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is believed to be solely responsible for the flight being taken hundreds of miles off course and there is no evidence of a mechanical failure or hijacking by a passenger, according to a source involved in the investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/

Hmmm... how did they rule out hijacking? I'd like to know how thoroughly all those passengers were investigated and any possible breach of the aircraft before leaving/during flight. I'm thinking about those Russian sleeper agents who were living in the US.

A high-ranking officer attached to a special investigative branch of the Malaysia police force in Kuala Lumpur said Wednesday that investigators are pressing relatives of the pilot, Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah, for information on his behavior leading up to the March 8 flight. They believe he "deliberately" redirected the plane, said the official.

And, if this is true, why is some high-ranking official 'leaking' information given that the passengers families already feel like they have not been exactly forthcoming.

Furthermore...

"This was premeditated," the investigator, who has been on the case since the beginning, told USA TODAY. "If you scrutinize the crew and passenger list, you will know there is no one else besides the captain who has the experience and expertise to fly the plane."

... there was someone expert on CNN quite a while back now that said it is not difficult to learn the skill to reprogram the flight and that you could learn that from a flight simulator. So, I wonder if they would really know who had what skills (whether by flight simulator or otherwise) and how thoroughly each passenger was really investigated?

 

[aa9511]

The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is believed to be solely responsible for the flight being taken hundreds of miles off course and there is no evidence of a mechanical failure or hijacking by a passenger, according to a source involved in the investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/

Well that is interesting as Chuck Hagel just told a reporter that so far, he can't rule out anything and he is not ruling out terrorism.

"If you scrutinize the crew and passenger list, you will know there is no one else besides the captain who has the experience and expertise to fly the plane."

So is he saying what they did was go off the printed passengar list, in which, for example, the two Iranian men were actually different people, one an Austrian man and one an Italian man??

Yes, we know the real Austrian man and the real Italian man whose names were on the list did not do it.

What about the 2 Iranian men whose real names were NOT on the passenger list?

What about other people who might have come on with false names?

:facepalm:

That brings me a lot of relief to know that they just entered in names off the list w/o apparently investigating any further. :facepalm:

JMO.

 

[HulaMum]

Hmm....but if I'm reading it right, you pretty much need a pilot in control of the glide, to do throttle and that stuff.

Very interesting, thanks.

The throttle controls your power. No engines producing thrust would mean no need to use the throttle.

A pilot pushes or pulls on the control column in front of him or her to control the pitch, which would control the rate of descent.

However, an unpiloted airplane would continue to glide in the configuration last set without any new input needed.

 

[Hatfield]

Shouldnt a China ship be there full time in the search area now and not have to come back at nightfall. I could have sworn I read the other day a china ship was entering the area.

By now, ships should be there FULL TIME and keep looking. At least the china ship.

We desparately need a diver from a ship to jump in the water, grab a piece, make confirmation from plane, and then a satellite phone call to Aussie mainland to let them make the announcement.

 

[LittleRose]

It may be wise for airlines to have a third pilot in the cockpit jump seat on bigger planes. Seems it may help prevent some of the things that cause crashes (pilot error, hijack, pilot suicide).


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[ToutCa]

We're no closer to understanding MH-370's disappearance than the day the military radar track was released:

Pilot as hero: Sudden fire/explosion/catastrophe. Pilot heads west to Langkawi airport, but can't control descent. Turns to Phuket airport, still can't control descent, aborts landing. Turns out over ocean, tries to gain control of plane enough to land, fails, passes out as emergency progresses.

Pilot as villain: Suffering a personal crisis (or for some other motive) one pilot disables all on board, possibly de-pressurizing plane at 43,000 feet. He carefully maneuvers plane out to sea and aimlessly flies off into the sunrise.

Pilot as victim: Hijackers invade cockpit and order diversion. Maybe hijackers are deranged, maybe bent on crashing the plane in the ocean, maybe flight crew/passengers put up a struggle resulting in hypoxia incident.

One of the above must be true. But there's still no solid evidence for which one.

 

[aa9511]

It may be wise for airlines to have a third pilot in the cockpit jump seat on bigger planes. Seems it may help prevent some of the things that cause crashes (pilot error, hijack, pilot suicide).


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But then we would be saying that the third pilot took control on a suicidal mission.

 

[popsicle]

It may be wise for airlines to have a third pilot in the cockpit jump seat on bigger planes. Seems it may help prevent some of the things that cause crashes (pilot error, hijack, pilot suicide).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Air France 447 had 3 pilots

 

[21merc7]

Shouldnt a China ship be there full time in the search area now and not have to come back at nightfall. I could have sworn I read the other day a china ship was entering the area.

By now, ships should be there FULL TIME and keep looking. At least the china ship.

We desparately need a diver from a ship to jump in the water, grab a piece, make confirmation from plane, and then a satellite phone call to Aussie mainland to let them make the announcement.

Xuelong is there, but I don't know how much they can see at night. Or if they want to jump in the turbulent water at night. :O

Crew members of Chinese icebreaker Xuelong scan the sea to search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 in the area where Chinese airborne searchers spotted some suspicious objects in the southern Indian Ocean on March 26, 2014.

http://english.eastday.com/e/140326/u1a7999512.html