Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #16

[aa9511]

I'm not sure that it was a case of the Malaysian officials simply being in over their heads, though I do think that is part of it. I think that they were hoping that it was a simple mechanical failure or pilot error and that the plane would be quickly recovered and they would inform the world of the crash.

My big but, here is, if that scenario is what Malaysian authorities believed to be the case from the beginning, why not mobilize the international community immediately when the plane went off course, or when there was no transmission from the cockpit? It is simply a curious sequence of events to me.

In my mind indicates that the Malaysians had some other scenario playing about in their heads, other than a ordinary plane crash, which is why they did not want to share it immediately with the world. JMO

bbm

That is a very, very good point. I have not thought about it in that way before.

If they had thought some mechanical failure occured, it would have been natural for them to immediately admit that they lost the plane and they don't know where the plane is or what happened.....here - here is the information that we have.

Instead, they admitted, what, 4 days later, IIRC, that the plane had made a left turn??? And then another few days before the zig-zag pattern was confirmed (on Military radar).

ANd then all the altitude changes, which, IIUC, STILL HAVE NEVER BEEN CONFIRMED by Maysia. There have been SO many RUMORS about the altitude - 5,000, 12,000.....they are swirling around b/c Malaysia will not confirm exactly what altitude points they have.

Then there was radar information from various countries which apparently were made known to Malaysia but the public doesn't know about. For example, DID INDONESIA CATCH THE PLANE ON ITS RADAR OR NOT???

JMO.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Not feeling sorry for them, they have enough resources to do better... not that they have as much as we do. English is a second language there, but when I lived in Malaysia most know it and are pretty good at it ... certainly the big wigs should be able to communicate much more clearly than what I heard last night although I concluded the Airline guys were left out there high and dry perhaps. I felt it probably left the families even more upset - they want to know how this happened and what happened and the one airline spokesperson didn't seem to get that they need that for closure. The Malaysians could also provide translators for Mandarin if that is a problem... no one is going to be good at eliminating every language barrier. If you read around the opinions of Malaysians, you'll see that many also are tired of a worn out system that may not promote more quality and is too insulated, inequitable. I hope this is a wake up call for Malaysia. And, yes, I think lessons will be learned by everyone.

I agree with, except, for the BBM.


I thought the same after 9/11. Only to find THIS.
http://www.investigativeproject.org/3948/dhs-questioned-over-decision-to-let-saudi

 

[LambChop]

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree.

The plane being missing would have immediately been treated as a crime scene until information came out to prove otherwise. Every passenger on board would have been crosschecked, IMMEDIATELY and I am talking within HOURS (with the FBI/CIA).

Malaysia did the opposite of what quite a few countries would have likely done.

But didn't we hear about the Iranians right away. Most of the passenger were from other countries so I would imagine they had to wait until they received information back from background checks in the different locations. jmo

 

[Hatfield]

No Links. In order for them to come out and say that the plane is in the Ocean and the people are dead because they've seen satellite images, obviously this would mean that they have some sort of technology that allows them to draw this conclusion.

So when the agent said this, I guess he is saying that either they are making a potentially false/inaccurate statement OR they have some sort of satellite technology that has allowed them to draw conclusions that normally cannot be drawn from satellite alone.

This is what got a lot of families and me upset. Austrailia agreed with me last night in their news conference. We need debri identified that it came from the plane before we can definitely say things like they said.

IMO, Malaysia should not have been so definiite in their remarks without having solid proof. This is what families are saying now as the family spokes person said this exact sort of thing with Anderson last night. They want solid proof and tangible proof.

Because the famlies are holding on to hope that maybe their loved ones are maybe in a life raft or hanging onto debris. Even if it is very unlikely, it is still that kind of hope the famlilies will continue to hold onto until someone sees + pulls aboard the debri objects, makes the connection to flight, looks around and sees no live bodies clinging on debris and then can make the statements that all are dead.

Another serious communication failure IMO.

 

[The Village Idiot]

On the FLIP side of this......

All this talk to how this could have happened..........I DO HOPE THAT NO Extreme terrorists do now try to act out on something similar to this in the future since many weak spots in Aviation have come out in the News due to this.

All of these theories could now tried to be acted upon by another Evil Party...as there are Weak spots we know.

 

[aa9511]

In the interviews, Inmarsat Executive Vice President Chris McLaughlin freely discussed some of the central unresolved issues of the investigation.

snip

In the U.S., Mr. McLaughlin's comments would have led to his and his company's immediate removal from any NTSB investigation, according to the board's procedures and rules. The U.K. and many other countries have similarly strict rules.

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579460171057002290-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNTEyNDUyWj

Well Mr. McLaughlin seems to be the only one giving out any information whatsoever.

JMO.

 

[aa9511]

I agree with, except, for the BBM.


I thought the same after 9/11. Only to find THIS.
http://www.investigativeproject.org/3948/dhs-questioned-over-decision-to-let-saudi

:noooo::noooo::noooo::noooo:

 

[aa9511]

If anyone has a good map which shows the border line between Malaysia and Vietnam ATC, can you share it please?

TIA.

 

[JerseyGirl]

If anyone has a good map which shows the border line between Malaysia and Vietnam ATC, can you share it please?

TIA.

They are separated by the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea. There are no borders between the two.

 

[JerseyGirl]

more on Inmarsat, snipped:

The new method "gives the approximate direction of travel, plus or minus about 100 miles, to a track line", Chris McLaughlin, senior vice-president for external affairs at Inmarsat, told Sky News. "Unfortunately this is a 1990s satellite over the Indian Ocean that is not GPS-equipped. All we believe we can do is to say that we believe it is in this general location, but we cannot give you the final few feet and inches where it landed. It's not that sort of system."

McLaughlin told CNN that there was no further analysis possible of the data. "Sadly this is the limit. There's no global decision even after the Air France loss [in June 2009, where it took two years to recover the plane from the sea] to make direction and distance reporting compulsory. Ships have to log in every six hours; with aircraft travelling at 500 knots they would have to log in every 15 minutes. That could be done tomorrow but the mandate is not there globally."

<modsnip>

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/flight-mh370-inmarsat-aaib-analysis

 

[SilkySifaka]

I wasn’t referencing the families of the Chinese casualties so much as their emotions are likely to be running high especially after the song and dance from Malaysian officials. In my opinion the Malaysian government's hands are dirty, starting with its negligent slow release of information to the international community that this plane, a) flew off course, b)there was no contact with the cockpit after the first hour of flight and c) its current status was "missing".

What I find most interesting about the article is this sentence

"The Chinese government, meanwhile, demanded that Malaysia turn over the satellite data it used to conclude that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 went down in the southern Indian Ocean with no survivors after turning back from its flight path to Beijing on March 8."

I wonder if Malaysia has shared the satellite data it has used to draw its conclusion with to any other governments. Maybe it has and I just missed it in the plethora of information and misinformation that surrounds this case.

It was vetted by at least britains airplane and inspectors as well as boeing before it was even given to the malaysians They only announced it after getting the briefing

 

[Elley Mae]

If anyone has a good map which shows the border line between Malaysia and Vietnam ATC, can you share it please?

TIA.

http://skyvector.com/

If you go here and zoom in over the sea of thailand you will see that multiple countries have ATC over that area.

 

[SilkySifaka]

All JMO
I partially agree but after watching their officials and reading as much as I can, it seems IMO only, that they are purposely withholding information mainly about the investigation into who was involved in bringing the plane down.

They also seemed to want to hide that batteries were on board as that was very slow info to get out and it seemed it had to be pulled out of them. And the list of all on board was very slow and had to be pulled out from other government pressure. Things like that.

Their own actions have caused their own criticism.

If they would have been more forthcoming from day 1, then they would not receive as much criticsim.

I do agree with you that some of the critisism is over the top. Like the families calling them murderers and things. I seriously dont think their government was directly responsible but they need to do a much better job of being honest and open about the investigation into who took down the plane.

You have to remember this is a country not used to being questioned by a free and open press (and neither is china for that matter, doubt they would have been more forthcoming).

They stumbled out of the gate by denying some things at first that were leaked from sources and then after deciding it could be released turning around on that. but i see that as just a natural reaction to a country that keeps negative things out of the press as much as possible.

IMO they have opened up considerably after getting used to the fact that they need to share something with the public. Perhaps it was a matter of getting permission from on high to open up

 

[time]

[/b]

bbm

That is a very, very good point. I have not thought about it in that way before.

If they had thought some mechanical failure occured, it would have been natural for them to immediately admit that they lost the plane and they don't know where the plane is or what happened.....here - here is the information that we have.

Instead, they admitted, what, 4 days later, IIRC, that the plane had made a left turn??? And then another few days before the zig-zag pattern was confirmed (on Military radar).

ANd then all the altitude changes, which, IIUC, STILL HAVE NEVER BEEN CONFIRMED by Maysia. There have been SO many RUMORS about the altitude - 5,000, 12,000.....they are swirling around b/c Malaysia will not confirm exactly what altitude points they have.

Then there was radar information from various countries which apparently were made known to Malaysia but the public doesn't know about. For example, DID INDONESIA CATCH THE PLANE ON ITS RADAR OR NOT???

JMO.

BBM - exactly. Would there be any other way they could justify that flight path unless Indonesia either verified they saw it or said something like, it could have gone over and we missed it. Even if the plane went over Indonesia, it had to make some strange flight path, with a severe 180 turn (and then arc tot he West, it looks). If not, it had to make a big arc over the ocean and somehow miss Indonesian shores by quite a ways (or they didn't pic it up closer to their shore).

I am still waiting for one complete map of the entire flight path. I get really agitated that they show it flying back across Malaysia (not including all the waypoints) and then half way through that, Shazam, Batman!, we have magically been transported across great distances and are flying that Southern arc.

Someone asked this question recently.... wouldn't the entire flight make a difference in whether there was enough fuel to get that far? I'd at least like to hear some scientific analysis of that now that we know what is being claimed as truth.

 

[Hatfield]

Almost no country checks passenger passports against the Interpol stolen passport list.

The USA does NOT. If MH-370 had been headed TO or FROM the USA, the passengers would not have been challenged:


If you're not on the USA terrorist watch list, the USA doesn't challenge you.

If you're outraged at MALAYSIA for not checking passports, then it's time to direct your outrage at the USA as well.

Unless I am missing something in your link, you are mistaken because it said the US uses Interpol data to create an even better list that it uses based on the Interpol data too.

""The U.S. uses Interpol's database more than any other nation to screen people entering the country. Its 250 million annual checks are followed by the United Kingdom's 120 million and the United Arab Emirates' 50 million.

Each year, based on its terrorist watchlist and Interpol data, the U.S. government issues thousands of "no-board recommendations" to airlines to keep suspected high-risk passengers from traveling to the United States. In fiscal year 2011 alone, it issued more than 3,600 such recommendations, according to 2012 U.S. House testimony by Kevin McAleenan of the Department of Homeland Security's Customs and Border Protection

Since many nations neither maintain their own watchlists nor check any list as carefully as the U.S, "if you're flying between two foreign airports, you're at the mercy of whatever the host and receiving countries are doing,'' Greenberger said. ""

 

[aa9511]

They are separated by the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea. There are no borders between the two.

I was talking about the Air Traffic Control. What I'm trying to do is see where one country's ATC drops off and the other's begins. I guess it would be out over the ocean where the plane made the left turn. But I am also trying to see how the path it followed after that compares to ATC between different countries.

Thanks.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I heard one of the former FBI agent say that they are really waiting to see the technology that was used to determine that how they know beyond a wild guess that the objects seen was of the plane.

America, apparently does not have such superior technology. They would have to do it the "old fashioned" way. See a grainy image on satellite, send out some boats to get it and only then could they analyze the objects to know that it was materials of the plane.

So they either have some groundbreaking technology that America has never even heard about (let alone have) OR they are likely just trying to wrap the case up (sans evidence) and move people's interest off of it.

I'll have to go with the latter for $1000, Alex.

It is not unheard of for a British company to come up with a solution that the U.S. does not have which is what happened here. Some brilliant mind realized they could use the known doppler effect to make a pattern using other flights both north and south and because of the movement in the doppler effect they could analyze where the plane ended up based on the handshakes and other info.

It does not have to have come from America first to be correct.

 

[TartLemon]

As advanced as we think we are with science and all, we just AREN'T. Computers aren't even a century old; personal computers are only a few decades old; cell phone technology is even less.

Grounding isn't it?

:waitasec:

 

[aa9511]

http://skyvector.com/

If you go here and zoom in over the sea of thailand you will see that multiple countries have ATC over that area.

sorry, I am technologically-challenged. How exactly do I get it to go to the screen for the Gulf of Thailand?

 

[Elley Mae]

sorry, I am technologically-challenged. How exactly do I get it to go to the screen for the Gulf of Thailand?

I left click hold and drag the screen just like google maps.