Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #17

[ElleElle]

ok ok..... "sealed evidence including air traffic control radio transcript, radar data and airport security recordings" that can not be made public!!!!!!

yep we are not getting the full story here....wonder why it cant be made public??? does anyone have any ideas?

BBM ~ IMO, there are too many parties involved. There is investigation/SAR from all the world; who are lost in translation and they are all lawyering up.

I just hope the black box is found. lease: and they release it the communications. Maybe I need to learn to learn Malaysian!

 

[ElleElle]

Wait.
So the FO was the one ACTUALLY flying the plane?!

Yes, what is a "pilot check" anyhow?

Maybe he messed something up and powered everything down to "reboot"...

 

[Forensics]

Forgot to mention that in addition to the ten aircraft will be five ships. To answer other comments regarding P8 Poseidons joining the search, at this stage there is only the one from the US.

 

[ToutCa]

I want to preface this by stating I believe the plane's disappearance was 75% likely to have been an intentional diversion, and 25% a mechanical issue.

Still, there's no proof yet at all for the cause of MH-370's disappearance.

And there's no proof MH-370 performed any evasive maneuvers at all.

If MH-370 wanted to avoid ATC sighting, all it had to do was pull its transponder.

That's it. Presto, invisible to civilian radar. There was no need to fly fancy routes around the edges of ATC radar zones. With no transponder, the plane could have flown right through the heart of any ATC zone and not been seen.

There's no proof either that the plane flew certain elevations to avoid radar. Boeing 777s are huge and there is simply no way to hide one from military radar. Flying at 12,000 feet does nothing. Flying at 5,000 feet does nothing. That big a plane would have to fly as low as 200 feet or lower for any effective "terrain hugging" radar shielding effect. While the elevation data rumors have been wild and conflicting, none have suggested such extreme low altitudes.

In fact, the 777 was NOT invisible to military radar, and was tracked quite easily by both Thai and Malaysian militaries. That's how we know its route from 1:21am-2:15am.

While I believe there's a greater likelihood the cause here was intentional diversion, there is no public proof yet MH-370 made evasive maneuvers, much less who was directing it after 1:21am and why.

 

[ElleElle]

Yes! Very interesting!

:waitasec:

This is a good sign. From your link:

"Professor Charitha Pattiaratchi, the scientist who oversaw the research, said that a failure to spot buoyant objects that originated inside the plane indicated that the cabin probably remained intact as it sank into the sea. This would improve the chances that the black box survived without significant damage in the depths below the crash site.
“I think the way the plane crashed, a lot of the debris has been kept intact inside the plane,” said Professor Charitha Pattiaratchi, from the university’s oceans institute. “If the plane broke up, we should see a lot more debris floating around. We should have seen smaller bits of lifejacket and seats, things which are going to float.”

 

[Forensics]

You must be reading very different news sources than me. I've read lots of aviation experts opinions that it could have been mechanical. The emphasis is on the word "could". There isn't strong evidence either way. In fact, there really is no evidence either way. Except circumstantial evidence which could point to either nefarious pilot actions, hijack or sabotage, or mechanical.

I agree there have been quite a few theories regarding mechanical failure, possibly a fire or some other electrical mishap. However, I am reading lots more reports lately of pilot involvement. Although, like this one I have posted a link to, it is quoting a source of a source. Everything is conjecture at this stage.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh370-p...quotes-malaysian-official-20140327-zqnrx.html

 

[Brightbird]

Someone else earlier brought up a good point about needing reference points, so could they not use this approach....

Contact the Satellite company and arrange on a specific day to have them point their satellites at the specific GPS location where most of the debris was previously spotted (AND) on that same day have one of the larger ships be parked at that exact GPS location.

Then have them download the images and look around that area and if anymore debri is spotted, they can specifically tell the searchers where the debris is in relation to where the ship was parked.

Like they could say...."Yesterday when you were parked at GPS 999, you had debri due north of you at a distancce of 1.2 miles. "

I might be misunderstanding the idea, but I think they'd already be doing something similar. The boats planes would (i assume) have mapped and recorded every location they've traversed. Then they could plot this against the map of all the satellite sightings.

 

[ilovepierre]

9/11 was in America, not Malaysia. :twocents:
There is plenty of indication that Malaysia Airlines was not strict about cockpit security.
I can think of at least 4 people who were allowed to ride in the cockpit of a Malaysia Airlines plane after 9/11.
(The 2 chicks, Richard Quest and Derryn.)

That would not happen in America but it happens in Malaysia.
It is not at all hard for me to believe someone broke into or was ALLOWED into the cockpit of this plane. :twocents:

:goodpost:
The US and Canada are one of a few places that tightened security after 9/11.
So many places did not change their rules after the incident, which is unfortunate.

 

[MsFacetious]

This is a good sign. From your link:

"Professor Charitha Pattiaratchi, the scientist who oversaw the research, said that a failure to spot buoyant objects that originated inside the plane indicated that the cabin probably remained intact as it sank into the sea. This would improve the chances that the black box survived without significant damage in the depths below the crash site.
“I think the way the plane crashed, a lot of the debris has been kept intact inside the plane,” said Professor Charitha Pattiaratchi, from the university’s oceans institute. “If the plane broke up, we should see a lot more debris floating around. We should have seen smaller bits of lifejacket and seats, things which are going to float.”

This is this persons OPINION and THEORY, nothing more and nothing less.

The only way that plane sank intact is if someone LANDED it on the water.
In seas like that, even that is extremely unlikely to have happened.
Odds are much higher that it blew to smitherenes when it hit, just like Air France 447. :twocents:

They are looking at debris that match a catastrophic plane crash right now.
I certainly hope one day we know what DID happen. :banghead:

 

[ElleElle]

I'm with you on that one.
I'm not going to accuse the pilots of anything without any concrete evidence to say they're responsible. They're still victims just like the other 237 people on board.

Right now, a mechanical issue makes sense.
Like I always say, "occam's razor."

IMO, there is absolutely 0 evidence that shows Capt. Shah is responsible for this.
I'm sure his son and long-time friends would know what kind of man he was.

But, I still wonder if there was a disagreement between Capt. Shah and FO. Because, didn't the FO say "Alright, goodnight". That makes me think that Capt. Shah was not in the cockpit.

 

[MLO]

they don't normally release info mid-investigation do they? and perhaps there are privacy concerns? The personal info that has already been floated on social media is disturbing.

I agree. I don't think the chopping and changing is anything suspicious. I think we have just been privy to too much of the investigation. I imagine in any investigation many ideas are floated and investigated then they are either disproved or investigated further. When a crime is committed the police don't come out and give out information on any suspect that they consider and present the 10 different scenarios they are working through. If they did people who go on a witch hunt trying to investigate for themselves and start jumping to conclusions because they don't have access to all of the tools the police do.

 

[ilovepierre]

Yes, what is a "pilot check" anyhow?

Maybe he messed something up and powered everything down to "reboot"...

It's a pilot that sits behind one of the two pilots and assesses the pilot's performance.

 

[popsicle]

BBM ~ IMO, there are too many parties involved. There is investigation/SAR from all the world; who are lost in translation and they are all lawyering up.

I just hope the black box is found. lease: and they release it the communications. Maybe I need to learn to learn Malaysian!

When you learn to learn Malaysian, could you learn me? :floorlaugh:

 

[ilovepierre]

IMO, there is absolutely 0 evidence that shows Capt. Shah is responsible for this.
I'm sure his son and long-time friends would know what kind of man he was.

But, I still wonder if there was a disagreement between Capt. Shah and FO. Because, didn't the FO say "Alright, goodnight". That makes me think that Capt. Shah was not in the cockpit.

Shah could have still been in the cockpit, but the FO was doing the communications while Shah could have been doing other pilot things in the cockpit. And if the FO was in fact the one flying the plane, it would make sense for him to be doing the communicating with ATC.

 

[ElleElle]

It is interesting that anyone could suspect the co-pilot but yet not suspect the pilot.

Why? There is 0 evidence of sabotage against the pilot at this point.

The co-pilot makes me feel uncomfortable, and he did say the last words, and then BAM the communications are disabled.

JMO.

 

[Forensics]

I agree. I don't think the chopping and changing is anything suspicious. I think we have just been privy to too much of the investigation. I imagine in any investigation many ideas are floated and investigated then they are either disproved or investigated further. When a crime is committed the police don't come out and give out information on any suspect that they consider and present the 10 different scenarios they are working through. If they did people who go on a witch hunt trying to investigate for themselves and start jumping to conclusions because they don't have access to all of the tools the police do.

Exactly! Just like we do here...:twocents:

 

[MLO]

Yeah, I think by saying he ignored the speculation that is pretty close to a denial. I know if my dad was accused of something like this I don't think I'd even want to give credit to the accusations with explicit denial - I'd feel ridiculous even saying it. I guess I'm also a little odd in that I'd never make pronouncements as to what someone was capable of or what actually happened in a situation I didn't witness. When people do that it kind of weakens their argument in my view - family members are often wrong. When I know someone is saying something crazy, I treat it as ridiculous and brush it off - that's more powerful to me.

Agree totally. Remember when that American soldier killed all of those people in Afghanistan? I imagined what I would do and say if it were my husband accused of a crime like that. What could I say that people would believe? He didn't do it? nah, no one would believe me anyway.

When my DH has been deployed I always go phone calls from family every time some soldier shot a woman or a child. I used to be so scared of having to make a statement or being interviewed if my husband was ever in a situation like that. How do you defend someone when you don't know what happened? You can say they aren't a murderer but no one will believe anything you say. you can say it must have been an accident, but again, I doubt any one will believe it.

The best denial I will ever say is that I know him, I love him and that anything being said is inaccurate.

 

[MLO]

IMO, there is absolutely 0 evidence that shows Capt. Shah is responsible for this.
I'm sure his son and long-time friends would know what kind of man he was.

But, I still wonder if there was a disagreement between Capt. Shah and FO. Because, didn't the FO say "Alright, goodnight". That makes me think that Capt. Shah was not in the cockpit.

I thought the Co-Pilot was the one who communicated with air traffic control? At least that's what all the Air Crash Investigation leads me to believe.

 

[geokaren]

Someone else earlier brought up a good point about needing reference points, so could they not use this approach....

Contact the Satellite company and arrange on a specific day to have them point their satellites at the specific GPS location where most of the debris was previously spotted (AND) on that same day have one of the larger ships be parked at that exact GPS location.

Then have them download the images and look around that area and if anymore debri is spotted, they can specifically tell the searchers where the debris is in relation to where the ship was parked.

Like they could say...."Yesterday when you were parked at GPS 999, you had debri due north of you at a distancce of 1.2 miles. "

That doesn't make sense to me since the satellites don't require Ground Control Points (GCP) they use onboard GPS and star trackers You can task them for any area you like, provided you can position the satellite at the correct time and don't have cloud cover (which has been a problem with this AOI)

 

[SouthAussie]

This is this persons OPINION and THEORY, nothing more and nothing less.

The only way that plane sank intact is if someone LANDED it on the water.
In seas like that, even that is extremely unlikely to have happened.
Odds are much higher that it blew to smitherenes when it hit, just like Air France 447. :twocents:

They are looking at debris that match a catastrophic plane crash right now.
I certainly hope one day we know what DID happen. :banghead:

I want to believe that this pilot did all he could to save his plane, his crew, his passengers, and innocent people living on our earth’s land masses.

So, considering that, I’d like to believe that a hypoxiated Captain Shah put his plane on autopilot, directed away from land masses but toward the southern lands, and hoped for a relatively calm ocean landing when the plane finally ran out of fuel and glided to its demise.

IF any of that did occur, maybe the cabin is still fairly intact. lease: