Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #21

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I have checked into this thread only in the past few days, and then only sporadically, so if this has been posted already I apologize. I just saw this on my google news page and went, WOW.

I hope this source is allowed. I will alert the mods myself to delete if not.

"Despite previous requests from Australian search and rescue crews, Malaysian authorities are still refusing to relinquish flight 370′s cargo hold manifest which has been speculated to contain key evidence pertaining to the missing airliners whereabouts."


http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ..._content=beforeit39snews-buttonsunderheadline
 
panthera said:
This information appears to rule out the plane being on autopilot and continuing to fly until it was out of fuel. Would there be any logical reason for this flight path if not to avoid radar detection? And with this in mind, WHO was flying the plane? I cannot fathom both pilot and co-pilot acting in unison, therefore, one or both of them would have to be "disabled".

MOO
Click to expand...

This is an interesting report indeed. This tells me this supposed route, to fly around Indonesia was manually programmed as the flight plan. I don't know who was flying the aircraft? Maybe remote control?
 
IzzyBlanche said:
I have checked into this thread only in the past few days, and then only sporadically, so if this has been posted already I apologize. I just saw this on my google news page and went, WOW.

I hope this source is allowed. I will alert the mods myself to delete if not.

"Despite previous requests from Australian search and rescue crews, Malaysian authorities are still refusing to relinquish flight 370′s cargo hold manifest which has been speculated to contain key evidence pertaining to the missing airliners whereabouts."


http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ..._content=beforeit39snews-buttonsunderheadline
Click to expand...

Yes, Lord only knows what MAS was carrying as cargo. Maybe they don't want it released because they were transporting illegal goods.

Wonder if can dig up previous cargo manifests?
 
aa9511 said:
I am not sure whether I believe this new leaked information or not.

I posted my reason in a previous post.

But basically, for the plane to have gone around Indonesia, one of the satellie pings would have had less distance from the satellite than the other pings. So I think Inmarsat engineers would have known if it went around Indonesia. Based on satellite-ping distances.

Jeff Wise on his blog gives a quote from an Inmarsat spokesperson who he says told him that all the ping distances grew longer from the 2:11 ping, and never shorter.

However, I don't know whether this information he got is reliable or not.

This is the map he used to show how the plane could not have gone in the shaded area:

http://031c074.netsolhost.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MH370_GRAPHIC-4.png
Click to expand...

Good post! I see Wise remains skeptical and I'm glad someone is :)

I have also been wondering how many miles and fuel that big curve around to Avoid Indonesia adds to the flight? Or is my sense of it off...
 
txsvicki said:
I don't understand why Indonesia doesn't have radar in the curve around it. I was looking at the supposed path the other night where the plane was thought to have cut across the tip of Indonesia.
Click to expand...

They do. They also have radar that follows the straights where both Malaysia and Thailand saw it flying, yet their official line was that they saw nothing on radar that night.

I don't know whether this story about flying around it is true or not. Certainly the plane may have avoided flying over Indonesian land. But flying that close to Indonesia in the water doesn't avoid their radar, either. Maybe whoever was flying didn't know that?

Or maybe Indonesian radar sucks, but something is up with what they say they saw vs what they should have seen.

Basically, the plane had to fly through what Indonesia has as their radar range in publicly-available information they have given before. Whether they weren't paying attention, it was broken that night, they lied about how far it extends, etc, or someone on that plane knew this was a loophole, I don't know. But I don't 'trust' what they are saying about it. They are clearly trying to keep details of their radar secret now. After maybe exaggerating them previously, lol.

Maybe it really is possible to fly that close to Indonesia and not be spotted on radar, but that certainly wasn't public information of any sort! Hmmm.
 
aa9511 said:
I am not sure whether I believe this new leaked information or not.

I posted my reason in a previous post.

But basically, for the plane to have gone around Indonesia, one of the satellie pings would have had less distance from the satellite than the other pings. So I think Inmarsat engineers would have known if it went around Indonesia. Based on satellite-ping distances.

Jeff Wise on his blog gives a quote from an Inmarsat spokesperson who he says told him that all the ping distances grew longer from the 2:11 ping, and never shorter.

However, I don't know whether this information he got is reliable or not.

This is the map he used to show how the plane could not have gone in the shaded area:

http://031c074.netsolhost.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MH370_GRAPHIC-4.png
Click to expand...

Jeff Wise is following the blog of (NASA, etc) space scientist Duncan Steel, and I think Duncan covered this very recently (but after Mr. Wise's reporting).

It's a great analysis, so I suggest everyone head over to duncansteel.com to watch this guy work. He rocks :)

Here is the summarized relevant info to what you noticed, though:

From 'Information Pertaining to the
Search for MH370

Duncan Steel, 2014 April 06.
duncansteel.com '

...The requirement for any plausible path taken by MH370 must therefore encompass all of the following:

(a) A start at near 06.50 N, 96.5 E at 18:22 UTC

(b) The direction of motion of the aircraft at the times of all pings being away from the satellite and producing LOS speeds [writer7's note: has to do with Doppler shifts] in accord with the above table.

(c) Movement inwards from the 18:29 ping ring and then consistent movement outwards thereafter, crossing the rings at the correct times.

Note that this means that despite MH370 apparently moving away from the satellite at 18:29, by 19:40 in had shifted rather closer to the satellite and was again moving away from it so as to cross the 19:40 ping ring from the inside....
Click to expand...

And one of his awesome graphics to see what this means (as well as where the other limiting ping rings go and what time their pings were):

http://www.duncansteel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/x_3D_4.png

And below is that big ole graphic attached for a little version for us at WS. You won't get to see the times/lines clearly probably, so check out the big version at the link above.
 

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writer7 said:
Jeff Wise is following the blog of (NASA, etc) space scientist Duncan Steel, and I think Duncan covered this very recently (but after Mr. Wise's reporting).

It's a great analysis, so I suggest everyone head over to duncansteel.com to watch this guy work. He rocks :)

Here is the summarized relevant info to what you noticed, though:

From 'Information Pertaining to the
Search for MH370

Duncan Steel, 2014 April 06.
duncansteel.com '

And one of his awesome graphics to see what this means (as well as where the other limiting ping rings go and what time their pings were):

<respectfully snipped>
Click to expand...

:seeya: Thanks! I love his name as well. ;)

I have to agree. Boeing cannot tell us anything about their auto-pilot functions. :banghead:
 
CNN reporting there will be a press conference today/tonight at midnight EST US (appx 2 hours from this post). CNN is also working to "confirm something else they have heard."
 
Fluffy Puppy said:
CNN reporting there will be a press conference today/tonight at midnight EST US (appx 2 hours from this post). CNN is also working to "confirm something else they have heard."
Click to expand...

Thanks....was just going to post the same thing.

:)
 
ElleElle said:
:seeya: Thanks! I love his name as well. ;)

I have to agree. Boeing cannot tell us anything about their auto-pilot functions. :banghead:
Click to expand...

His name is great!

(A commenter) Robert P and Duncan seem to be focusing on heavy autopilot analyses. I'm not so sure that I think autopilot was used exclusively until much later in the flight. Of course, you'd check that first if doing the calculations they are, because then you have more knowns!

I do kinda have a feeling that the plane was human-piloted around the Indonesia situation, which is also where the pings got odd in their timing. It's also where a human may well fly around Indonesia for whatever reason (safety of those on the ground? Trying to evade radar? Knew the holes in radar if those exist?).

OTOH, that Robert P that I mentioned has an incredibly interesting 'autopilot-related' comment at "2014/04/06 at 5:37 PM" at the comment thread here:
http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/551#comments

I don't think we can quote comments even from science-y blogs like Dr Steel's. But it is interesting! So I think I still believe it could have been autopilot then (wait till his idea gets put through the modelling software). I wish I knew more about aviation, but his comment should make great sense to those who do, lol ;)
 
Fluffy Puppy said:
CNN reporting there will be a press conference today/tonight at midnight EST US (appx 2 hours from this post). CNN is also working to "confirm something else they have heard."
Click to expand...

I'm gonna guess it will go something like this;

We've not been able to locate the pings the Chinese ship had been able to hear. The items the ship saw were just more garbage and we are reassessing the search area. We think it may have crashed one thousand miles from out current search. Unfortunately, we don't know if it's north, south, east or west that this happened, so there is nothing new to report. I can't take any questions, good day.
 
Do you guys notice that whenever someone on the CNN panel request the flight sim guys to try something, they either say "no we can't do that" or "sure", then they modify the instructions to try something different than the request?
 
writer7 said:
His name is great!

(A commenter) Robert P and Duncan seem to be focusing on heavy autopilot analyses. I'm not so sure that I think autopilot was used exclusively until much later in the flight. Of course, you'd check that first if doing the calculations they are, because then you have more knowns!

I do kinda have a feeling that the plane was human-piloted around the Indonesia situation, which is also where the pings got odd in their timing. It's also where a human may well fly around Indonesia for whatever reason (safety of those on the ground? Trying to evade radar? Knew the holes in radar if those exist?).

OTOH, that Robert P that I mentioned has an incredibly interesting 'autopilot-related' comment at "2014/04/06 at 5:37 PM" at the comment thread here:
http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/551#comments

I don't think we can quote comments even from science-y blogs like Dr Steel's. But it is interesting! So I think I still believe it could have been autopilot then (wait till his idea gets put through the modelling software). I wish I knew more about aviation, but his comment should make great sense to those who do, lol ;)
Click to expand...

I also like his idea of "recreating" it with the same configurations of MH370. This may lead to it, if it can be re-created with a 777 and weight leaving KL.
 
- Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 en route from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia to Beijing, China diverted course after the hand-off between Malaysian and Vietnamese ATC (Air Traffic Control) at 17:21 UTC at Navigational Waypoint IGARI.

- Flying west across peninsular Malaysia, MH370 intercepted another Boeing 777-200, United Arab Emirates Flight UAE343 en route from Kuala Lumpur to Dubai at 18:27 UTC at Navigational Waypoint MEKAR.

- Flying in close formation behind and below Flight UAE343, MH370 "shadowed" UAE343 along Navigational Route N571, effectively avoiding detection by foreign radar.

- At 23:35 UTC, MH370 broke formation at Navigational Waypoint PARAR , diverting to Konarak Airport, Chah Bahar, Iran

- MH370 landed and powered down at 00:19 UTC

8688622.png


http://www.randengineering.ca/mh370.html
 
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