Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #22

[ElleElle]

But European and Iranian are not even in the same "lump" of the world.

JMO.

Anyway, I know a lot of people don't think the Iranians had anything to do with it and they probably didn't, but in any case it should be a concern to everyone that the proper checks did not occur at the airport and allowed stolen passports to be used. In this day and age, that should worry a lot of people. IMO multiple avenues have to be used to make sure it doesn't happen - that includes data bases as well as the eyes and ears of the people in charge of checking the passports. It cannot be one to the exclusion of the other. It has to be mutiple avenues combined. Eyes and ears are very important, IMO, and should not be understated. Perhaps additional training is required for the personnel who check the passports.

Also, it cannot do any harm to double-check if the passport-checker has any suspicions. Again, I am not trying to be PC. Perhaps some will be offended by the non-pc aspect of it. But it simply cannot be done with computers alone. We need the people checking the passports to use their eyes,ears, and common sense. Perhaps some thing will trigger the passport-checker to send someone for a passport double-check. Perhaps in that double-check, Interpol or some other database will be used, and they will pick up that it's stolen passport or whatever the transgresion is. It can't hurt IMO. If after all of that it is still valid, then no harm done.

JMO.

All airports need to do is charge every passenger a $5 fee to have the passport scanned against stolen/lost passports.

BBM ~ I guess other countries cannot be forced to adopt the same practices the Western world has.

JMO.

 

[Intermezzo]

Well to me "Luigi" would certainly raise one flag. B/c Luigi the Italian name doens't match up to me with how he looks and let's not forget that this Iranian would not have had the Italian accent, either. On top of that, clothes he was wearing. On top of that, so what are you doing - why did you go to Qatar and now KL and now on to Beijing? At least the person checking the passports should have sent hiim to the little office where they double-check the passports.

JMO.

But yes, you are right that probably Malaysia personnel would not know what general Italian names are and what Italian accents sound like. Nor what kind of clothes Europeans wear. Although I have to say that Western foreigners are usually easily noticeable as "different' from others due to many subtle signs put together. Clothes, purses, shoes, as well as things like haircuts, general appearance, etc.. So IMO the personnel should have realized that these men do not really look like Westerners.

JMO JMO JMO.

Not to me

I would like to add to this discussion...add a different perspective to what an Italian, a full blooded Italian, may look like...

Italians come in all different skin, hair and eye colour....we are not only dark hair, dark eyes and dark skin...

Some of us have English first names and Italian last names..even in Italy.
Some of us have dual citizenship but were born and raised in Canada/the US or Australia, South America ( ie: First Generation, after Italians migrated from Italy after WWII) .. Hold Italian Passports but do not have an Italian Accent

Yes, the majority may be dark hair, medium skin tone, dark eyes...but there are full blooded Italians with natural blond hair, or natural red hair, blue eyes and green eyes..

In my family we have brown eyes, some with blue eyes and my dad and 2 cousins with Green eyes and we are all full blooded Italian...our hair colour ranges from sandy blond/brown to dark brown..2 or 3 with naturally curly hair.

My Sicilian MIL looks nothing like what a typical Italian looks like and her genealogy is only traced to Sicily.
She is a natural born RedHead, with Green eyes, very very pale skin and little to no body hair..

I have an Italian Passport..but NO Italian accent..I am very much Canadian with a bit of Southern USA in me :seeya: Hi Y'all.

My niece and nephew are Adopted..they have Italian first and last names and they have Italian Passports as well.. they don't have Italian accents and don't look Italian either..blond, fair skin and blue eyes.

One of my southern Italian friends from Apulia(south east coast) hair is more white blond and she has blue eyes...looks more Swedish than Italian


Just wanted to put forth a Different Perspective to the discussion..

Carry On fellow Sleuthers

 

[ElleElle]

Well to me "Luigi" would certainly raise one flag. B/c Luigi the Italian name doens't match up to me with how he looks and let's not forget that this Iranian would not have had the Italian accent, either. On top of that, clothes he was wearing. On top of that, so what are you doing - why did you go to Qatar and now KL and now on to Beijing? At least the person checking the passports should have sent hiim to the little office where they double-check the passports.

JMO.

But yes, you are right that probably Malaysia personnel would not know what general Italian names are and what Italian accents sound like. Nor what kind of clothes Europeans wear. Although I have to say that Western foreigners are usually easily noticeable as "different' from others due to many subtle signs put together. Clothes, purses, shoes, as well as things like haircuts, general appearance, etc.. So IMO the personnel should have realized that these men do not really look like Westerners.

JMO JMO JMO.

They usually don't ask questions in SE Asian countries, IMO.

They try to intimidate in other ways.

The Iranian's haircuts looked pretty Western to me. It was stylish. I also thought the one was good-looking.

 

[ElleElle]

But why? So are you thinking he just wanted to commit suicide? Or send a statement - but the probably with the "statement theory" is that what kind of statement is it if the plane and black boxes were never even found? It would just be ?, no statement.

BBM ~ Maybe it's in MH370 with the pilot. Until it is found, we may never know.

JMO.

 

[Intermezzo]

The problems with his family have never been confirmed. That Daily Mail or Mirror article, whichever it was, was later completely refuted by Captain Shah's daughter as well as Malaysian officials.

So who knows?

I agree.

 

[ElleElle]

It's my opinion that this maneuver by the pilot was strictly political. Pilot knew where to dump the aircraft where it couldn't be found - the deepest part of the ocean of the world.

I don't think he would take 228 innocent people with him.

What's the point of ditching a plane in the deepest waters of the world if you can just head back to KL?

Unless, he wanted this to happen. Put Malaysia on the world stage.

All JMO.

 

[Momoffourboys]

I don't think he would take 228 innocent people with him.

What's the point of ditching a plane in the deepest waters of the world if you can just head back to KL?

Unless, he wanted this to happen. Put Malaysia on the world stage.

All JMO.

BBM

I still cannot find a "perfect" scenario. I, do, believe that shaming the Malay gov't and airing its' dirty laundry is up there on my list with possible motives.

 

[Tiepos]

BBM ~ Maybe it's in MH370 with the pilot. Until it is found, we may never know.

JMO.

Hmmmm. I hadn’t considered that possibility. It’ll be interesting to see if they find anything like a “message” from passengers or crew.

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr020.aspx
APRIL 13, 2014

Up to 11 military aircraft, one civil aircraft and 14 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Today the Australian Maritime Safety Authority has planned a visual search area totalling approximately 57,506 square kilometres. The centre of the search areas lies approximately 2200 kilometres north west of Perth.

Today, Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield continues more focused sweeps with the Towed Pinger Locator to try and locate further signals related to the aircraft's black boxes. The AP-3C Orions continue their acoustic search, working in conjunction with Ocean Shield. The oceanographic ship HMS Echo is also working in the area with Ocean Shield.

This work continues in an effort to narrow the underwater search area for when the Autonomous Underwater Vehicle is deployed.

There have been no confirmed acoustic detections over the past 24 hours.

The weather forecast for today is south easterly winds with isolated showers, sea swells up to one metre and visibility of five kilometres in showers.

 

[ElleElle]

How about this for a theory? The plane was intentionally diverted, possibly with the collusion of one of the pilots. It was landed early on after disappearance, possibly during the "zig-zag" motion. Passengers and/or cargo could have been offloaded as desired by the plotters, and the plane then flown on, on autopilot, and dumped in a remote and inhospitable area of ocean. Alternatively the tracking and communication equipment, and black boxes could have been detached, and sent down the "southern arc" using a small aircraft and dumped into the sea. The plane along with passengers and cargo could have then been flown on anywhere else for whatever purpose.

Ok, wouldn't Rolls Royce be able to get logs for engine on/off?

But, otherwise, this theory is plausible.

The zig-zags raises flags for me. It just seems odd if there was an mechanical malfunction.

JMO.

 

[newone]

Ok, wouldn't Rolls Royce be able to get logs for engine on/off?

But, otherwise, this theory is plausible.

The zig-zags raises flags for me. It just seems odd if there was an mechanical malfunction.

JMO.

this item is 2 hours old according to google news

''thrown around like a jet fighter to avoid detection''

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ar-source-claims/story-fnizu68q-1226883092654

 

[ElleElle]

http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr020.aspx
APRIL 13, 2014

Up to 11 military aircraft, one civil aircraft and 14 ships will assist in today's search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Today the Australian Maritime Safety Authority has planned a visual search area totalling approximately 57,506 square kilometres. The centre of the search areas lies approximately 2200 kilometres north west of Perth.

Today, Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield continues more focused sweeps with the Towed Pinger Locator to try and locate further signals related to the aircraft's black boxes. The AP-3C Orions continue their acoustic search, working in conjunction with Ocean Shield. The oceanographic ship HMS Echo is also working in the area with Ocean Shield.

This work continues in an effort to narrow the underwater search area for when the Autonomous Underwater Vehicle is deployed.

There have been no confirmed acoustic detections over the past 24 hours.

The weather forecast for today is south easterly winds with isolated showers, sea swells up to one metre and visibility of five kilometres in showers.

Thanks for the update. :seeya:

BBM ~ :waitasec: Shouldn't the AUV be deployed now? What is the hold-up?

 

[ElleElle]

this item is 2 hours old according to google news

''thrown around like a jet fighter to avoid detection''

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ar-source-claims/story-fnizu68q-1226883092654

The plane climbed 10,000ft above its cruising altitude to 45,000ft, then dropped to just 5,000ft. “It was being flown very low at very high speed. And it was being flown to avoid radar,” a source close to the investigation told the Sunday Times

.

From newone's link above. I do believe MH370 was flown around erractically to avoid something. I don't think it's coincidental with mechanical failure.

Taking sharp turns and up and down on this plane would be :scared:

 

[ElleElle]

this item is 2 hours old according to google news

''thrown around like a jet fighter to avoid detection''

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ar-source-claims/story-fnizu68q-1226883092654

This can also change the calculation of fuel used because it would use more flying erractically.

JMO.

 

[Soulmagent]

this item is 2 hours old according to google news

''thrown around like a jet fighter to avoid detection''

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ar-source-claims/story-fnizu68q-1226883092654

The plane climbed 10,000ft above its cruising altitude to 45,000ft, then dropped to just 5,000ft. “It was being flown very low at very high speed. And it was being flown to avoid radar,” a source close to the investigation told the Sunday Times.

Ugh @ a source close to the investigation.

 

[aa9511]

Because this is ALL speculation, and there are even many conflicts in what were supposed to be " official reports" of the plane's flight route, altitude, speed, etc. All we or anyone else really know for sure is that the plane disappeared.

A series of pings believed to be from the black boxes have been identified and ships and sonar are on location but if they were from the recording devices it will likely be some time before they are retrieved from the ocean. Then it will be months before the black boxes are analyzed and the report released to the public.
And I won't even believe that report until it comes from a more reliable source than an Asian government source.

All we know is one true fact: The plane disappeared and is downed somewhere in an unknown status. Experience with similar disappearances leads most to believe the plane crashed, but this is not proven to date.

Yes, very true. If I'll give the Malaysia government anything, it's that they have done a "good" job of not "jeapordizing ongoing investigation." They certainly have kept most of the evidence in lock-up. And all involved seem to be on board and no official seems to be leaking any accurate informaiton.

 

[dotr]

The devil is in the details.
To think we can send a man ( or woman ) to the moon, but cannot find a plane because the batteries died !

http://www.cp24.com/world/black-box...making-efforts-to-find-plane-harder-1.1773802

"PERTH, Australia -- Following four strong underwater signals in the past week, all has gone quiet in the hunt for the missing Malaysia AirlinesAirlines jet, meaning the batteries in the plane's all-important black boxes may finally have died."

 

[panthera]

Malaysia Airlines MH370: black box batteries may have died
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-mh370-black-box-batteries-may-have-died-1.2608525

Just what I was thinking...

My thoughts as well. At least, in my opinion, pings were located before this happened.

MOO

 

[aa9511]

Not to me

I would like to add to this discussion...add a different perspective to what an Italian, a full blooded Italian, may look like...

Italians come in all different skin, hair and eye colour....we are not only dark hair, dark eyes and dark skin...

Some of us have English first names and Italian last names..even in Italy.
Some of us have dual citizenship but were born and raised in Canada/the US or Australia, South America ( ie: First Generation, after Italians migrated from Italy after WWII) .. Hold Italian Passports but do not have an Italian Accent

Yes, the majority may be dark hair, medium skin tone, dark eyes...but there are full blooded Italians with natural blond hair, or natural red hair, blue eyes and green eyes..

In my family we have brown eyes, some with blue eyes and my dad and 2 cousins with Green eyes and we are all full blooded Italian...our hair colour ranges from sandy blond/brown to dark brown..2 or 3 with naturally curly hair.

My Sicilian MIL looks nothing like what a typical Italian looks like and her genealogy is only traced to Sicily.
She is a natural born RedHead, with Green eyes, very very pale skin and little to no body hair..

I have an Italian Passport..but NO Italian accent..I am very much Canadian with a bit of Southern USA in me :seeya: Hi Y'all.

My niece and nephew are Adopted..they have Italian first and last names and they have Italian Passports as well.. they don't have Italian accents and don't look Italian either..blond, fair skin and blue eyes.

One of my southern Italian friends from Apulia(south east coast) hair is more white blond and she has blue eyes...looks more Swedish than Italian


Just wanted to put forth a Different Perspective to the discussion..

Carry On fellow Sleuthers

Thank you for sharing your unique perspective!

The only thing I will say is, as far as the accents are concerned....you have no Italian accent and instead a Canadian w/ mix of Southern US....but do you have a Persian accent? The Iranian man, if he was raised in Iran, would have had a Persian accent, not a Western accent. If he was not raised in Iran, he would not be trying to flee from there as he would already have been elsewhere.

What I mean is, some of these things put together should have been enough to just simply warrant a double-check of the passport. That's all I'm saying. Just a double-check.

Not only accent or name or whatever, but also circumstances of his travels - where was he going and why? Who was his travelling with? Was he travelling alone? Why travelling alone? Was he travelling for leisure/vacation, or for business? If leisure, what type and what did he do in the places he visited? If business, what business?

Anyway, ok you guys are probably right that Malaysia didn't really have the incentive to ask these questions, as this man was leaving Malaysia so what did it matter to them? He was leaving their country, no longer any involvement with Malaysia. They would just let the other country where he was landing take care of these questions.

So, effectively, "passing on the buck."

I suppose this is the reason they did not care to even double-check the passports when IMO clearly some additional information was required of these 2 men. Malaysia's philosophy was - they are leaving Malaysia so what do we care?

Let Amsterdam deal with them.

SURELY, these questions would have been asked at the Customs desks in Amsterdam.

But then again, maybe not. We know the 9/11 hijackers were allowed to walk into the US, so guess we can never be sure of anything.

The only problem with this philosophy of "they are leaving the country so why do we care" is because unfortunately some people (terrorist) aim to do harm on the way to the new location where they will be checked out.

Also, Malaysia let them in their country for what purpose I don't know. Obviously they were just there to pick up stolen passports and then go to Europe.

JMO.

 

[aa9511]

Even though there is no new news and usually it's just repeat of same news, repeat repeat, I still miss Anderson, Richard Quest, Don Lemon and the rest of the folks discussing MH370 (no weekend coverage). LOL!