Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #22

[Hatfield]

True. But it could of been a planned hijacking for bigger purposes than our imaginations.

Someone brought up using common sense and that is a very good point. Ocam's razor basically states that the simplest of competing theories should be considered first over the more complex ones.

This Poll on WS was done awhile back and there has been a lot more information obtained since the poll started but it is still very interesting to look at. Here are the current top 5 from the poll results:

1- hijacked + crashed into water (128 people voted)
2- landed safely on land (99 people voted)
3- hijacked + plane landed safely but is hidden (95 people voted)
4- i dont know (62 people voted)
5- pilot suicide + crashed into ocean (39 people voted)

All JMO
For #1, I began to think of common sense why this one may be it.

NOTE: IMO, #1 can include either the pilot, co-pilot, or some other hijacker because it is NOT specific as some people may not have noticed the other option or did not like the word suicide in the other option with #5. ANYBODY could become a hijacker including the pilot or copilot, so the wording of this poll is not clear enough IMO.
I am using just what news reports and info have been released of which we all know some of it may be rumors but going based on what I read somewhere in the past few weeks. Again, some of this may be rumor type info but listing it anyway.

For #1 (interpreted as ANY hijacker which could include anyone on board that plane, passenger, pilot, copilot, etc. It is not specific who hijacked plane):

-There was supposedly a purposeful turning off of communication transponders.

-There was supposedly a purposeful zig-zag pattern after turning left.

-The altitude of plane seemed purposeful going way up to over 40000 feet and then way down to around 5000 feet.

-If there was any type of mechanical failure, there was no identified attempt of an emergency landing anywhere which would have been a normal response to some severe mechanical failure. Instead, the plane took a heading south to the deepest most remote ocean.

-The plane flew for a very long time with no change of course to try to get near land or to try an emergency landing.

-There was rumored to be a call from the pilot to somone else on his cell phone before boarding.

-Another plane supposedly tried to contact this plane on emergency VHF frequency and he heard mumbled voices.

-The pilot was in court for his friend and his friend may be going to prison or jail after that court case.

-There were rumors of the pilot having an affair and rumors of trouble in his marriage.

-There were rumors of his wife leaving his normal house and flying to another location the day or 2 after this flight.

-There were 2 passengers with fake passports that were gotten from Ali. Nothing much more heard about these 2 people.

-There were rumors of the copilots phone being reconnected when the plane went low.

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JMO, in thinking about Occams Razor and who would have hijacked the plane, it seems plausable based on all the above that either the pilot or the co-pilot either worked together or 1 of them knocked out the other one to take over the plane. Then locked the cabin door so no passengers could get in OR used the 45000 feet height to knock them all out.

But the biggest thing that does not make sense is why go to remotest part of ocean and hide the plane deep in water. The best answer to this was what a few people have brought up. He may have wanted to try to make sure insurance money or his job's benefit money would still be paid out to his family and children. That is 1 good reason why he may have tried to hide the plane.

Because if it is found out the pilot or copilot did it on purpose, I am sure insurance and company benefits do NOT pay in those circumstances.

FINAL THOUGHT: Its plausable. This is just one of many possible reasons the plane ended up disappearing. For me personally, I am just keeping a list of all the possibles and have quit trying to pick just 1 reason and just wanted to bring this poll results to the forefront because it is interesting to think about what others have thought.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Ugh @ a source close to the investigation.

and just watch. The malaysian govt will deny this report and there will be anger at the government when its the sources who are the problem

 

[ilovepierre]

Then why if it was mechanical error, what would MAS be responsible for?

Because they did not follow up on the notification given by Boeing:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/15/us-ge-boeing-engines-idUSBRE94E1CX20130515

Exactly.
They don't want to admit to mechanical issues because they know there was a problem with the plane that they didn't fix. They'd be held responsible for that. Putting the blame on the pilots or passengers takes the blame of them (Malaysia Airlines) and on someone else.

 

[ilovepierre]

Ok, wouldn't Rolls Royce be able to get logs for engine on/off?

But, otherwise, this theory is plausible.

The zig-zags raises flags for me. It just seems odd if there was an mechanical malfunction.

JMO.

Unless the plane was zig-zagging BECAUSE of mechanical problems?
The plane would be flying erratically.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Been away and trying to skim through the threads, what's this about the co-pilot making a phone call? Tired and bleary eyed, and now can't find the post I read where it was mentioned.

Any other "new" news?

 

[panthera]

Then why if it was mechanical error, what would MAS be responsible for?

Because they did not follow up on the notification given by Boeing:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/15/us-ge-boeing-engines-idUSBRE94E1CX20130515

The article states the defective part was installed in the 777-300ER series. This jet was a 777-200ER. Perhaps the directive didn't apply to this model? With that said, however, I'm not discounting another problem that hadn't been addressed or corrected.

MOO

 

[panthera]

Been away and trying to skim through the threads, what's this about the co-pilot making a phone call? Tired and bleary eyed, and now can't find the post I read where it was mentioned.

Any other "new" news?

Flight MH370 co-pilot tried to make mid-flight phonecall, report claims

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/12/mh370-co-pilot-phonecall-malaysia

 

[Hatfield]

The article states the defective part was installed in the 777-300ER series. This jet was a 777-200ER. Perhaps the directive didn't apply to this model? With that said, however, I'm not discounting another problem that hadn't been addressed or corrected.

MOO

I had found and listed this incident in Post #479. It is interesting and also this part below is critical and if I remember the article, the faulty device made the plane go UP sharply and increase altitude.
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I also found this plane incident below that happened to be a 777 that had an ADIRU failure on a flight from (you guessed it) Perth to Kuala Lumpur. Its a long read but that is some scary stuff and you can see how the pilots could have trouble with all these switches and computers.

"on 1 August 2005, a Boeing Company 777-200 aircraft, (B777) registered 9M-MRG, was being operated on a scheduled international passenger service from Perth to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia."

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24550/aair200503722_001.pdf

 

[LambChop]

The article states the defective part was installed in the 777-300ER series. This jet was a 777-200ER. Perhaps the directive didn't apply to this model? With that said, however, I'm not discounting another problem that hadn't been addressed or corrected.

MOO

This plane had Rolls Royce engines and not GE. jmo

 

[Lola68]

Unless the plane was zig-zagging BECAUSE of mechanical problems?
The plane would be flying erratically.

Having read and re-read the transcript from the Air France flight, I'm starting to veer towards mechanical failure - even thought this seemed about the least likely theory imo at the beginning of all this (aside from alien abduction!).

Malaysia airways failure to report the flight missing until after it should have landed
Insistence pretty early on that it was due to deliberate action
Focus on 2 fake passports
Conflicting information released by Malaysia authorities

This all seemed to point to some sort of hijacking gone wrong.

But in the absence of any terrorist claim (even if it went wrong, they could still claim victory for taking over and downing a plane), terrorist links to passengers, terrorists links to crew (political activism doesn't = terrorism just as suicidal ideation doesn't = mass murder) perhaps the most plausible explanation is the most 'mundane' one (in terms of sleuthing) - that the plane suffered some mechanical failure and/or pilot error caused it to crash. IDK!

 

[Hatfield]

Having read and re-read the transcript from the Air France flight, I'm starting to veer towards mechanical failure - even thought this seemed about the least likely theory imo at the beginning of all this (aside from alien abduction!).

Malaysia's airways failure to report the flight missing until after it should have landed
Insistence pretty early on that it was due to deliberate action
Focus on 2 fake passports
Conflicting information released by Malaysia authorities

This all seemed to point to some sort of hijacking gone wrong.

But in the absence of any terrorist claim (even if it went wrong, they've could still claim victory for taking over and downing a plane), terrorist links to passengers, terrorists links to crew (political activism doesn't = terrorism just as suicidal ideation doesn't = mass murder) perhaps the most plausible explanation is the most 'mundane' one (in terms of sleuthing) - that the plane suffered some mechanical failure and/or pilot error caused it to crash. IDK!

Some sort of mechancial failure like a rapid decompression event that caused hypoxia to everyone seems possible although what I keep having trouble with is this....

Since the plane did lower altitude and did fly zig-zag and then did make a heading south.....How could all that happen without at least a radio call for help or them heading to try for an emergency landing somewhere.

If they did all those manuevers then someone had time to try other things except to fly due south to their deaths. That is the part that makes me think it is not mechanical failure.

 

[ilovepierre]

Some sort of mechancial failure like a rapid decompression event that caused hypoxia to everyone seems possible although what I keep having trouble with is this....

Since the plane did lower altitude and did fly zig-zag and then did make a heading south.....How could all that happen without at least a radio call for help or them heading to try for an emergency landing somewhere.

If they did all those manuevers then someone had time to try other things except to fly due south to their deaths. That is the part that makes me think it is not mechanical failure.

If all communication was knocked out due to whatever mechanical problem occurred, no radio calls could have been made.

 

[Hatfield]

If all communication was knocked out due to whatever mechanical problem occurred, no radio calls could have been made.

True if there was total knockout of communications.

But why not try to go to nearest airport for emergency landing. Everything I have read about drastic emergencies tell the pilot to get to the nearest airport.

The only time I have read about ditching in ocean is if plane is definitely going to crash. This plane flew for hours so it was not about to crash.

And like we were talking yesterday they could have flown low over a city to get a cell phone call out. Pilots I am sure are aware of cell phones working when low enough.

I am almost positive pilots would be aware they could use their phones to get a 3-way call going to air-traffic-control if their communications were down.
All they had to do was dial 911 when low enough. Or even the operator to connect them to whatever citys police department.

 

[Lola68]

Some sort of mechancial failure like a rapid decompression event that caused hypoxia to everyone seems possible although what I keep having trouble with is this....

Since the plane did lower altitude and did fly zig-zag and then did make a heading south.....How could all that happen without at least a radio call for help or them heading to try for an emergency landing somewhere.

If they did all those manuevers then someone had time to try other things except to fly due south to their deaths. That is the part that makes me think it is not mechanical failure.

I know what you're saying. It's only after having read the Air France transcript that I started to reconsider my original opinion. That plane went all over the place - up, down, down with nose up, variable speeds etc. And no distress call was made (and their communication wasn't knocked out, they just didn't have time). I agree the fact the plane was navigated on the edge of the waypoints suggests deliberate intent - but it could be coincidence (humans love to see significance in random events). I'm not convinced either way, I'm just moving from a position of near conviction that it was deliberate, to acceptance that it may not have been.

 

[Hatfield]

I know what you're saying. It's only after having read the Air France transcript that I started to reconsider my original opinion. That plane went all over the place - up, down, down with nose up, variable speeds etc. And no distress call was made (and their communication wasn't knocked out, they just didn't have time). I agree the fact the plane was navigated on the edge of the waypoints suggests deliberate intent - but it could be coincidence (humans love to see significance in random events). I'm not convinced either way, I'm just moving from a position of near conviction that it was deliberate, to acceptance that it may not have been.

Very good points. I really hope it turns out to be something non-nefarious. I sincerely do. Just struggling with it.

One thing I did think about......If something went wrong that caused the plane to go up to 45000 feet like the ADIRU unit failing in that example a few posts ago, I thought maybe the pilots were barely concious due to hypoxia and managed to get it low and fly erradically left and right.

And then maybe one last gasp type manuever to lock in auto-pilot with a southernly heading and then pilot just died.

If the pilot was barely concious during all the other maneuvers I could maybe see where they could have done all those moves and then they finally just died.

Its possible I suppose.

I do agree that erradic flying alone cannot guarantee it was done on purpose. The Iowa disaster was a perfect example. That plane could only make turns in 1 direction due to hydraulic failure.

This is what is so fasicinating about this incident. So much doesnt make much sense so far.

 

[Waddles]

I don't want this to be true and I am very open to other scenarios but from the split second the report was out that the pilot had been to the court case and was such a strong supporter of Ibrahim everything clicked and I've been very much leaning to it being that. Now that I'm reading the rumour about the threat to ditch the plane if the decision wasn't reversed, added to the rumour that the co-pilot potentially called out or potentially attempted to call out it just reinforces it all IMO

Yes some ppl are very attune to these things, u just might be very right. To me, I didn't think twice about the court case or the Ibrahim stuff.

Can u please expand on the rumor u mentioned of ditching the plane if decision wasn't reversed?? Tia.

sorry for the delayed reply!

I'm sure this has been posted already but I've just discovered it - surely not true?!
An email received by the Mail recently suggested that the aircraft had been hijacked and that the pilots had been ordered to fly around Malaysian and Indonesian air space while negotiations were carried out.
Those negotiations, said the email - from a source in Malaysia which could not be verified - demanded the dropping of a jail sentence imposed on Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim.
The hijackers, said the email, gave government negotiators five hours to meet their demands or the plane would be destroyed.
Last night Malaysia's Acting Transport Minister said he could not comment on the report in the New Straits Times adding that 'if it is true, we would have known about it much earlier.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ormal-communication-ground.html#ixzz2yhFVsZMu
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

this says "destroyed" but I also saw "ditched" elsewhere. Anyway probably just wild rumours

 

[ilovepierre]

True if there was total knockout of communications.

But why not try to go to nearest airport for emergency landing. Everything I have read about drastic emergencies tell the pilot to get to the nearest airport.

The only time I have read about ditching in ocean is if plane is definitely going to crash. This plane flew for hours so it was not about to crash.

And like we were talking yesterday they could have flown low over a city to get a cell phone call out. Pilots I am sure are aware of cell phones working when low enough.

I am almost positive pilots would be aware they could use their phones to get a 3-way call going to air-traffic-control if their communications were down.
All they had to do was dial 911 when low enough. Or even the operator to connect them to whatever citys police department.

BBM.
I think they may have tried making an emergency landing. I think that's why there was the abrupt left turn after all the up and down the plane was doing. For whatever reason, an emergency landing was never made or something else happened to make one not possible.

 

[ilovepierre]

Very good points. I really hope it turns out to be something non-nefarious. I sincerely do. Just struggling with it.

One thing I did think about......If something went wrong that caused the plane to go up to 45000 feet like the ADIRU unit failing in that example a few posts ago, I thought maybe the pilots were barely concious due to hypoxia and managed to get it low and fly erradically left and right.

And then maybe one last gasp type manuever to lock in auto-pilot with a southernly heading and then pilot just died.

If the pilot was barely concious during all the other maneuvers I could maybe see where they could have done all those moves and then they finally just died.

Its possible I suppose.

I do agree that erradic flying alone cannot guarantee it was done on purpose. The Iowa disaster was a perfect example. That plane could only make turns in 1 direction due to hydraulic failure.

This is what is so fasicinating about this incident. So much doesnt make much sense so far.

This theory makes sense and it could be possible this is what happened.

 

[Intermezzo]

Thank you for sharing your unique perspective!

The only thing I will say is, as far as the accents are concerned....you have no Italian accent and instead a Canadian w/ mix of Southern US....but do you have a Persian accent? The Iranian man, if he was raised in Iran, would have had a Persian accent, not a Western accent. If he was not raised in Iran, he would not be trying to flee from there as he would already have been elsewhere.

What I mean is, some of these things put together should have been enough to just simply warrant a double-check of the passport. That's all I'm saying. Just a double-check.

Not only accent or name or whatever, but also circumstances of his travels - where was he going and why? Who was his travelling with? Was he travelling alone? Why travelling alone? Was he travelling for leisure/vacation, or for business? If leisure, what type and what did he do in the places he visited? If business, what business?

Anyway, ok you guys are probably right that Malaysia didn't really have the incentive to ask these questions, as this man was leaving Malaysia so what did it matter to them? He was leaving their country, no longer any involvement with Malaysia. They would just let the other country where he was landing take care of these questions.

So, effectively, "passing on the buck."

I suppose this is the reason they did not care to even double-check the passports when IMO clearly some additional information was required of these 2 men. Malaysia's philosophy was - they are leaving Malaysia so what do we care?

Let Amsterdam deal with them.

SURELY, these questions would have been asked at the Customs desks in Amsterdam.

But then again, maybe not. We know the 9/11 hijackers were allowed to walk into the US, so guess we can never be sure of anything.

The only problem with this philosophy of "they are leaving the country so why do we care" is because unfortunately some people (terrorist) aim to do harm on the way to the new location where they will be checked out.

Also, Malaysia let them in their country for what purpose I don't know. Obviously they were just there to pick up stolen passports and then go to Europe.

JMO.

I think the main issue that has arisen with the disappearance of MH370 is that Malaysia does not check passports against IE: Interpol database to verify that the passport presented is authentic and not stolen..

But I have enjoyed reading the posts in this discussion..

 

[Ellmau]

Thank you for sharing your unique perspective!

The only thing I will say is, as far as the accents are concerned....you have no Italian accent and instead a Canadian w/ mix of Southern US....but do you have a Persian accent? The Iranian man, if he was raised in Iran, would have had a Persian accent, not a Western accent. If he was not raised in Iran, he would not be trying to flee from there as he would already have been elsewhere.

What I mean is, some of these things put together should have been enough to just simply warrant a double-check of the passport. That's all I'm saying. Just a double-check.

I really doubt that the Malaysian border police would be able to distinguish an Italian accent from a Persian one, especially if speaking in a third language not their own. I doubt anyone but an Italian, an Iranian, or a really great linguist would be able to do so. No country would have experts on all nations available to check the passport holders of that nation at every possible desk. It's just not practical.

The Malaysians were definitely negligent in not automatically running all passports presented against the international database of lost and stolen passports - but I don't think they can be blamed for not picking up on the wrong accent.