Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

[2rose]

Here is a CNN's Wolf Blitzer covering the 4 pings & the Atlantis article ...

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/09/wolf.02.html

"Now a new story in "The Atlantis" magazine questions whether the signal sent to the plane from satellites can be trusted. Experts based their search on that information. So have they been looking in the wrong place all along?

BLITZER: You and the other experts you spoke with, you think they may be looking in the wrong place?

Now, Peter, I know you've read the article not once but twice. Very long article, very technical. What do you think?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I think that this is the absolute -- you know, you can expect this to cap it. Because the Malaysians and Inmarsat have not released all of the data from the beginning. I thought it was a pretty compelling article. The investigation is going to have to respond to it. I spoke to sources at the NTSB. They said they remain confident in the work they've done. But they're going to look at the article, as are the people in Australia. Everything is on the table at this point".

 

[Archangel7]

Some thoughts on the doppler shift, etc........

It would make sense for the shift to be corrected and then transmitted by the Ground Earth Station(GES) and/or the Airplane, rather than the Sat.

For example, in real world logic, it would seem since weight of equipment is fuel and fuel is life for a satellite, no frequency correcting equipment would be placed on a satellite due to weight and thus more fuel required. Not really any issue for that doppler correcting equipment to be placed on a airplane and /or a GES.

So, far example, the Sat pings Airplane, Airplane equipment references frequency and any shift, calculates appropriate frequency to transmit based on that and sends reply back to Sat. Satellite receives frequency corrected signal and responds by sending signal to GES which corrects any doppler shift in frequency from Sat. and transmits back in correct shifted frequency to Sat, and so on.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS SOMEWHAT SUPPOSITION AND EDUCATED GUESS.

Now the bottom line....
IF the above is the way the technology is installed and works would there be any need for shift calculations to determine the published Northern and Southern arc?

On the 85 Hertz shift while on the runway. It appears as best I can graphically portray with aeronautical charts, Inmarsat info and Google Earth that the take off and initial climb out of MAS 370 relative to Inmarsat's location would have been somewhat towards the Sat and thus the higher freq. shift?

MOO WRT understanding how the technology affects or vetts the published data on the search arcs OR doesn't.

 

[Archangel7]

I am wondering if Schulman has mistakenly assumed that the graph starts on the runway at 12:41am. What if the graph actually starts when the plane made first contact with radar at 12:45am ... that would explain why it was at 85hz instead of zero.

Could be, as I'm not sure of any of their info other than when the plane was powered up for preflight or already running, the query should have begun with all three, AES, SAT, and GES. I would guess from that and then based on times vs corresponding plane locations the graph would be "started?"

It has been reported that Inmarsat tested the ping theory with actual planes in order to determine if their calculations matched empirical evidence. They claim it did and that it supported their "Southern Arc."

See, my problem is this....If Inmarsat was correct in their calculated location, it would seem that a third party like the US Intelligence community could somehow vett that with their independent info., even if only to tell our US Navy search vessels.(That way sensitive Classified info stays In House and no worries on Classified information protocols) However we have no assets anywhere near there. Seems the USN Kidd made a cursory pass thru on it's way to be serviced and refitted.

On the other hand maybe, between allies(AUS/USA),that has happened and Aus. has taken the lead as they are the most logical WRT logistics.

I would like to see some confidentiality statements signed between NASA and Inmarsat and have Inmarsat share the actual raw data with NASA for verification or anyone with the expertise.

 

[marlywings]

If anyone's interested there's an interesting WS thread about Air France Flight 447....

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84788"]2009.06.01Air France Plane Goes Missing Over Atlantic BLACK BOX UPDATE 2011.05.01 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[marlywings]

Towards the end of that thread there's also a very interesting CNN report about that plane....

July 2, 2009

....... "did not break up or become destroyed in flight," but bellyflopped intact into the Atlantic Ocean

"The plane went straight down, almost vertically... towards the surface of the water, very very fast," air accident investigator Alain Bouillard said.

........."we were able to see that the plane hit the surface of the water flat.

No air-traffic controllers seem to have been monitoring the flight when it went down, investigations have found. It would normally have been "handed over" from controllers in South America to others in Africa while flying over the Atlantic, but that did not happen, Bouillard said.

"We want to know why there was no concern in Dakar (in Senegal, west Africa) when this plane was not handed over," he said.

Bouillard said investigators would continue to search even after the beacons on the recorders stop signaling, in what he called a "second phase" of the search

The mountainous ocean floor in the search area ranges from 3,280 to 15,091 feet, BEA officials have said in the past, making the search for the recorders -- and the rest of the plane's debris -- difficult.

"It is as if it fell in the Andes," Olivier Ferrante, chief of the BEA search mission said last month

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/02/air.france.report/index.html

 

[2rose]

Hard to believe that planes get stolen ... but has happened before. 11 years ago a Boeing 727 was stolen from Quatro de Fevereiro Airport in Luanda, Angola (08°51′30″S 13°13′52″E) on 25 May 2003. It had no flight permission & the tracking transponder had been turned off. Without responding to the tower communications, the plane took off & headed southeast over the Atlantic Ocean. It's last radio contact was to ask for landing permission in the Seychelles-Islands (which are in the Indian Ocean, east of Africa). The plane never actually attempted to land there & has never been seen again. Some have wondered if terrorists forced the mechanic to pilot the aircraft & he crashed it ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N844AA

 

[marlywings]

Federal Budget 2014: search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 to cost Australia up to $89.9 million

May 13, 2014 9:26PM


THE search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 could end up costing Australia up to $89.9 million — and officials are budgeting for the hunt to last a long time.

As the search in the southern Indian Ocean continues, Federal Budget papers reveal further funding of up to $60 million will be provided to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau over two years.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...p-to-899-million/story-fnihpj8r-1226916454414

 

[dotr]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/13/travel/malaysia-airlines-flight-tracking/index.html?eref=edition


" This is not a new issue, but there is new urgency as the global aviation community looks closely at more robust flight tracking in response to the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

Officials from more than 40 countries meeting in Montreal at a U.N. aviation conference are expected on Tuesday to embrace a plan for examining a framework for worldwide standards aimed at preventing similar mysteries.

"Public perception is that in a world where every move seems to be tracked, there is disbelief both that an airplane could simply disappear and that the flight data and cockpit voice recorders could be so difficult to recover," the International Air Transport Association said in a submission to the meeting"

 

[Hatfield]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/13/travel/malaysia-airlines-flight-tracking/index.html?eref=edition


" This is not a new issue, but there is new urgency as the global aviation community looks closely at more robust flight tracking in response to the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

Officials from more than 40 countries meeting in Montreal at a U.N. aviation conference are expected on Tuesday to embrace a plan for examining a framework for worldwide standards aimed at preventing similar mysteries.

"Public perception is that in a world where every move seems to be tracked, there is disbelief both that an airplane could simply disappear and that the flight data and cockpit voice recorders could be so difficult to recover," the International Air Transport Association said in a submission to the meeting"

I've got news for the IATA. Its not "perception". Its reality.

Get with the program and put in a system that can find planes. :banghead:

 

[ilovepierre]

I've got news for the IATA. Its not "perception". Its reality.

Get with the program and put in a system that can find planes. :banghead:

I agree!
Had there been such a system in place, then this plane could have been found already!

 

[ElleElle]

Here is a bit more info about GeoResonance's technology - the company that claims that MH370 may be in the Bay of Bengal (but has since not been found by the Bangladesh Navy).



http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...nd-gas-in-sa-qld/story-e6fredel-1226631746538


This article was written over a year ago, and I can't find anything about the technology having actually worked since then. And GeoResonance still has no phone number .. just a PO box and webpage link for any contact.

:dunno:

Perhaps they don't want to be contacted.

I know most believe they not a legitimate company, but others have not provided any resolutions to this. I understand AF took time to find, but since the beginning this has been a mystery and family and us want answers to some unanswered questions.

JMO

 

[ElleElle]

I agree!
Had there been such a system in place, then this plane could have been found already!

I've got news for the IATA. Its not "perception". Its reality.

Get with the program and put in a system that can find planes. :banghead:

Yes, if cell phones were allowed on aircraft with satt connectivity, this likely would be a non issue.

 

[HMSHood]

Hard to believe that planes get stolen ... but has happened before. 11 years ago a Boeing 727 was stolen from Quatro de Fevereiro Airport in Luanda, Angola (08°51′30″S 13°13′52″E) on 25 May 2003. It had no flight permission & the tracking transponder had been turned off. Without responding to the tower communications, the plane took off & headed southeast over the Atlantic Ocean. It's last radio contact was to ask for landing permission in the Seychelles-Islands (which are in the Indian Ocean, east of Africa). The plane never actually attempted to land there & has never been seen again. Some have wondered if terrorists forced the mechanic to pilot the aircraft & he crashed it ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N844AA

Interesting about a radio contact to Seychelles Islands from the stolen airplane.

 

[ilovepierre]

Why is that interesting?
Not being snarky. Just wondering!

 

[Hope4More]

First post here about 370....many many posts on 370 specific threads elsewhere.

On one of those sites, fwiw, a 777 pilot posts frequently. He's believed from the get-go that Zaharie must have ditched the plane.

He changed his mind several days ago after meeting up with a 777 captain who is a 777 instructor for Boeing. That Captain also originally believed in pilot take down. Now neither believe any such thing.

Boeing pilot says he's convinced there was an electrical fire in the cockpit. Slow to begin with, and fits with when transponder and ACARS went down. He says the fumes would have been toxic enough to incapacitate both pilots pretty quickly.

And he knows the 777 could fly on for hours after, even without autopilot, tho the plane would increase altitude as fuel tanks emptied.

No conspiracy. Just negligent Malaysian authorities, mechanical defect, and possibly, an unwillingness of other nations to reveal their capabilities so that 370 can be located.

 

[ilovepierre]

First post here about 370....many many posts on 370 specific threads elsewhere.

On one of those sites, fwiw, a 777 pilot posts frequently. He's believed from the get-go that Zaharie must have ditched the plane.

He changed his mind several days ago after meeting up with a 777 captain who is a 777 instructor for Boeing. That Captain also originally believed in pilot take down. Now neither believe any such thing.

Boeing pilot says he's convinced there was an electrical fire in the cockpit. Slow to begin with, and fits with when transponder and ACARS went down. He says the fumes would have been toxic enough to incapacitate both pilots pretty quickly.

And he knows the 777 could fly on for hours after, even without autopilot, tho the plane would increase altitude as fuel tanks emptied.

No conspiracy. Just negligent Malaysian authorities, mechanical defect, and possibly, an unwillingness of other nations to reveal their capabilities so that 370 can be located.

The fire theory has been by theory from pretty early on, too.
And with what we know about the negligence of Malaysia Airlines, a fire/mechanical issue seems quite possible!

 

[Hope4More]

" The New York-based digital publication quoted an unnamed officer from the counter-terrorism division of Malaysia’s Special Branch as having revealed that the 11 were interrogated yesterday over MH370’s mysterious disappearance nearly two months ago.

“The possibility that the plane was diverted by militants is still high on the list and international investigators have asked for a comprehensive report on this new terror group,” the officer was quoted as saying.

The IBTimes news report also said it is believed the 11 who were arrested at several locations within the city here and in Kedah over the past week may be members of a new terror group that has been planning bomb attacks in Muslim countries.

The 11 are aged between 22 and 55 and includes Saiden Ismail from student activist group Solidariti Anak Muda Malaysia (SAMM)".
- See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...alaysian-terror-suspects#sthash.4cVDS8gh.dpuf

Complete hooey, IMO. For western consumption, to spook about terrorists, in an attempt to divert attention.....especially about cargo!

 

[Hope4More]

The fire theory has been by theory from pretty early on, too.
And with what we know about the negligence of Malaysia Airlines, a fire/mechanical issue seems quite possible!

The fire theory has indeed been, but lots of logical arguments against a sudden and rapid fire have been out there as well for just as long.

The Boeing pilot is an extremely reliable source. He knows what the possible 777 defects might be, what systems they would affect and when/how.

I agree MAL has a lot to explain. . FYI, tho, MAL seems to enjoy a good reputation with pilots overall..

 

[Archangel7]

There is an Airworthiness Directive(AD)issued by US FAA.....

[Docket No. FAA-2013-0864; Directorate Identifier 2013-NM-108-AD; Amendment 39-17841;
AD 2014-09-06]

RIN 2120-AA64

Airworthiness Directives; The Boeing Company Airplanes.........

........(e) Unsafe Condition
This AD was prompted by a report of a fire that originated near the first officer's seat and caused extensive damage to the flight deck. We are issuing this AD to prevent electrical current from passing through an internal, anti-collapse spring of the low-pressure oxygen hose, which can cause the low-pressure oxygen hose to melt or burn and lead to an oxygen-fed fire near the flight deck..........

I saw pictures of this type "flash fire" in the cockpit. Instantaneous, no warning or prep time, all "buttons" melted in place with no chance of user interface, and possible burn thru on first officers side from knee down to flight deck flooring area.

It was due in compliance May 6 2014 per FAA

That type of fire could instantly incapacitate a flight crew, depressurize the plane and prevent any mitigation via a secure flight deck door, a literal ghost ship flying unmanned until fuel starvation.

 

[ilovepierre]

The fire theory has indeed been, but lots of logical arguments against a sudden and rapid fire have been out there as well for just as long.

The Boeing pilot is an extremely reliable source. He knows what the possible 777 defects might be, what systems they would affect and when/how.

I agree MAL has a lot to explain. . FYI, tho, MAL seems to enjoy a good reputation with pilots overall..

BBM.
Which is why I believe what he says
He's a pilot. He knows the ins and outs of a 777.