Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

[2rose]

I agree MAL has a lot to explain. . FYI, tho, MAL seems to enjoy a good reputation with pilots overall..

I think this info might be dated because while it is true that Malaysia Airlines
used to have a good reputation, it has seriously declined in recent years.
Their net losses are mentioned in this new article that discusses how thier internal problems
have caused a staff crisis resulting in 300 staff members to resign in the past 2 years ...

http://english.astroawani.com/news/show/union-urge-govt-interference-in-mas-staff-crisis-35700

Some employee opinions are shared here ...

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Malaysia-Airlines-Reviews-E7529.htm

 

[Insp.Gadget]

:lookingitup:

"In an open letter signed by family members from China, Malaysia, India, the US and New Zealand, Voice370, short for MH370 Victim Families
and Crew Association, has urged "all relevant authorities to carefully reconsider the data anew, without predetermination or bias as to any
possible or probable outcome.
The open letter, addressed to Prime Minister of Malaysia Datuk Seri Najib Razak, Prime Minister of Australia Tony Abbott, and President of
the People's Republic of China Xi Jinping, Voice 370 said that "[d]ue to the lack of physical evidence that MH370 ended in the Southern
Indian Ocean, the families are in urgent need for the conclusion, based on Inmarsat data analysis, that the aircraft"s flight ended in that
Ocean to be reconsidered to confirm its accuracy."
http://www.emirates247.com/news/mis...start-to-search-a-mistake-2014-05-14-1.546548


Published May 14, 2014:
"James Lybrand, Australian naval commander, said two of those four pings were "too weak to have been from a man-made device." "
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/552468/20140514/mh370-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-pings.htm


"A senior Australian naval officer said he 'increasingly suspects' some of the signals detected last month didn't come
from the jetliner's black-box flight recorders"
"Australian naval Commander James Lybrand said of four 'pings' picked up by the U.S. Navy's Bluefin-21 autonomous
underwater vehicle, two were too weak to have been from a man-made device."
"Embarrassing: Days after the signals were detected, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said he was 'very confident'
they were from the black box on MH370"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ost-tracking-prevent-flight-disappearing.html

 

[HMSHood]

Why is that interesting?
Not being snarky. Just wondering!

I just never heard of it before. I am aware of the case by the way.

 

[geevee]

:lookingitup:

"In an open letter signed by family members from China, Malaysia, India, the US and New Zealand, Voice370, short for MH370 Victim Families
and Crew Association, has urged "all relevant authorities to carefully reconsider the data anew, without predetermination or bias as to any
possible or probable outcome.
The open letter, addressed to Prime Minister of Malaysia Datuk Seri Najib Razak, Prime Minister of Australia Tony Abbott, and President of
the People's Republic of China Xi Jinping, Voice 370 said that "[d]ue to the lack of physical evidence that MH370 ended in the Southern
Indian Ocean, the families are in urgent need for the conclusion, based on Inmarsat data analysis, that the aircraft"s flight ended in that
Ocean to be reconsidered to confirm its accuracy."
http://www.emirates247.com/news/mis...start-to-search-a-mistake-2014-05-14-1.546548


Published May 14, 2014:
"James Lybrand, Australian naval commander, said two of those four pings were "too weak to have been from a man-made device." "
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/552468/20140514/mh370-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-pings.htm


"A senior Australian naval officer said he 'increasingly suspects' some of the signals detected last month didn't come
from the jetliner's black-box flight recorders"
"Australian naval Commander James Lybrand said of four 'pings' picked up by the U.S. Navy's Bluefin-21 autonomous
underwater vehicle, two were too weak to have been from a man-made device."
"Embarrassing: Days after the signals were detected, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said he was 'very confident'
they were from the black box on MH370"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ost-tracking-prevent-flight-disappearing.html

Rebolded

I thought the Bluefin-21 was brought in after the pings were detected to do the sonar search of the sea floor?

 

[ElleElle]

The fire theory has been by theory from pretty early on, too.
And with what we know about the negligence of Malaysia Airlines, a fire/mechanical issue seems quite possible!

The simplest theory, is electrical fire, which has been my original gut feeling since the co-pilot has been rumored to smoke in the cockpit, and I doubt MAS kept up with maintenance Boeing recommends. JMO.

Which reminds me, has MAS publicly released the maintenance records?

 

[marlywings]

Missing Malaysia plane: MH370 search equipment now faulty

May 15, 2014 4:53PM

THE so far fruitless search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has suffered another setback after finding out the search equipment is faulty.

The Joint Agency Coordination Centre say they have discovered a defect in the transponder mounted on Ocean Shield and that a defect may also exist in the transponder mounted on the US Navy Bluefin-21 submersible.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...pment-now-faulty/story-fniztvng-1226919033159

 

[2rose]

But there is always a chance that it landed on a higher ridge rather than the ocean bottom.

Random things I have heard about the pingers ...

- It is more likely for a pinger to go off frequency in a higher direction rather than a lower direction (which the Air France is suppposed to have done).

- CNN analyst David Soucie (airplane crash investagtor for many years & author of book "Why Planes Crash") had been a big proponent that the pings could only be coming from a black box ... but on May 9th on CNN TV, he said he had changed his mind upon learning that oriental fishing nets have pingers attached to them at 33khz. I did a quick internet search & did see some mention of them, but did not investigate thoroughly.

I have found another article about an alternate use for pingers ... William Meacham, an archaeologist affiliated with the University of Hong Kong has written that an enormous amount of biotelemetry tracking is going on in the oceans, with pinger transmitters attached to all sorts of marine life ...

"For several decades, pingers with frequencies of 30 to 50kHz have been commonly used to track large, deep ocean animals. Location and other data is transmitted to receivers in the ocean or to satellites whenever the animal surfaces. Acoustic pingers are also widely used as fishing net protectors, to drive away predators that would steal fish"

As one example you can see a list of over 400 tagged sea turtles being tracked by school projects here ...
www.seaturtle.org/tracking

Meacham has also been in contact with Dr. David Gallo (the oceanographer I previously mentioned who worked on the Air France crash) ...

"Dr David Gallo, a senior scientist at Woods Hole and co-director of the successful search for the wreckage of AF447, wrote in an email to me: `I don't know any underwater acoustic people that think the pings have anything to do with the plane'”

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...s-were-not-from-the-black-box-william-meacham

I think it would be beneficial for the current search team to utilize the knowledge & experience of a previous successful search team !

 

[2rose]

"Dr David Gallo, a senior scientist at Woods Hole and co-director of the successful search for the wreckage of AF447, wrote in an email to me: `I don't know any underwater acoustic people that think the pings have anything to do with the plane'”

I think it would be beneficial for the current search team to utilize the knowledge & experience of a previous successful search team !

Just found a CNN video of Sarah Bajc thinking the same thing! The committee she is on (for the passengers' family members) have asked in writing that Gallo's team "Woods Hole" be allowed to investigate ...

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2...amily-members-hear-audio-bajc-newday.cnn.html

 

[marlywings]

Malaysian Airlines earnings set to show financial burden of loss of MH370

May 14, 2014

Malaysian Airlines will report first-quarter earnings later on Thursday that are set to provide confirmation of just how badly the already loss-making carrier's finances have been hit by the vanishing of flight MH370 on March 8.

Struggling for years to cope with high costs and nimbler regional and international rivals, Malaysian Airline Systems Bhd's (MASM.KL) quarterly performance has been made so uncertain by reduced traffic and potential costs linked to the jet's unexplained disappearance that analysts say they simply can't issue January-March estimates

Since MH370 disappeared, MAS shares have slumped as much as 20 percent. Its market value has tumbled about 80 percent over the past five years, while the broader Malaysian market .KLSE has risen about 80 percent

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/14/us-malay-airline-results-idUSBREA4D0UI20140514

 

[marlywings]

Flight 370 search chief: Hunt for plane is the most difficult in history

May 13, 2014

The man leading the hunt for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 says the search is the most difficult in human history, but modern technology greatly increases the chances of finding the missing plane.

The four underwater signals that search teams detected are still "the most promising lead" investigators have in the search for the Boeing 777, Angus Houston told CNN's Anna Coren on Monday.

Houston told CNN it's still too soon to rule out any of the signals

Houston told CNN the hunt for the plane is even more difficult than that for Air France Flight 447, which disappeared in the Atlantic Ocean in 2009.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-missing-plane/

 

[marlywings]

I think it would be beneficial for the current search team to utilize the knowledge & experience of a previous successful search team !

This was reported a couple of weeks back...

May 02, 2014

Houston was joined in the press conference by Jean-Paul Troadec — President of the French Aviation Accident Investigation Bureau (and previous head of the Air France 447 investigation team) — who orchestrated the successful search for the black boxes of a crashed Air France passenger jet

Troadec was recently brought in for his expertise in the Air France incident

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...nes-flight-mh370/story-fnizu68q-1226903454549

 

[2rose]

This was reported a couple of weeks back... May 02, 2014 Houston was joined in the press conference by Jean-Paul Troadec — President of the French Aviation Accident Investigation Bureau (and previous head of the Air France 447 investigation team) — who orchestrated the successful search for the black boxes of a crashed Air France passenger jet Troadec was recently brought in for his expertise in the Air France incident

Every little bit helps
But Houston & Troadec sound like they have the same desk job of co-ordination.
Bajc & I were suggesting that what the search & rescue team seem to need more of
is marine technical experience like Wood's Hole & oceanographer David Gallo.
Someone who can evaluate whether the pings are credible or not. Gallo is on record as saying ...
"I don't know any underwater acoustic people that think the pings have anything to do with the plane".
If that is true, then the co-ordinators shouldn't be giving it so much value.
Public opinion polls also show that most people think they are searching in the wrong area,
so it would be a good idea to add some staff with MORE technical knowledge & experience to their team.
To do so, certainly couldn't hurt the search efforts.

 

[ilovepierre]

The simplest theory, is electrical fire, which has been my original gut feeling since the co-pilot has been rumored to smoke in the cockpit, and I doubt MAS kept up with maintenance Boeing recommends. JMO.

Which reminds me, has MAS publicly released the maintenance records?

I don't think they have.
I doubt they even will.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Captain (Rtd) Abdul Rahman Omar said that the most glaring mistake of the aviation department was not following annexe 11 of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

“Annexe 11 relates to communication with an aircraft in distress, between the air traffic controllers (ATC) and the pilot of the plane,” said Rahman.

“The ATC was to have contacted the pilot and directed him to communicate with air traffic controllers in Ho Chi Minh but the procedure underannexe 11 was not followed.”
Rahman believed that it was a mistake on the DCA’s part not to trust the radar data provided by the air force hours after the plane had disappeared.

“I believe the air force received the radar data in Pulau Perak where MH370 was last pinged on the radar. But the DCA did not trust the data,” he added.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/05/15/dca-did-not-trust-air-forces-radar-data/

 

[time]

Does anyone find this concerning, no one seems to have Inmarsat's raw data...

The raw satellite data sought by the family members of passengers and crew onboard flight MH370 can only be released by British satellite telecommunications company Inmarsat, said Acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein today.

...The families had also suggested that the government can buy over the data so that it can be accessed and analysed by outside experts.

“The raw data is not in the hands of Malaysia, Australia or MAS. What needs to be confirmed or released can only be done by Inmarsat themselves,” Hishammuddin told reporters at a media briefing this evening on the still missing Boeing 777-200ER aircraft.

Read more at: http://english.astroawani.com/news/show/raw-data-with-inmarsat-not-us-says-hishammuddin-35887?cp​

Data Doesn’t Lie?:The fuzzy math behind the search for MH370.

There remains only one publically available piece of evidence linking the plane to the southern Indian Ocean: a report issued by the Malaysian government on March 25 that described a new analysis carried out by the U.K.-based satellite operator Inmarsat. The report said that Inmarsat had developed an “innovative technique” to establish that the plane had most likely taken a southerly heading after vanishing. Yet independent experts who have analyzed the report say that it is riddled with inconsistencies and that the data it presents to justify its conclusion appears to have been fudged.

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...hind_the_search_for_the_missing_airliner.html

I also remember Inmarsat saying the satellite giving this data was old, or an article mentioning that. I don't like the fact that no one else has seen this data - or alternately if they could verify it's origination and relation to the missing plane. I really don't like that a private company might have something to gain by the international publicity of their miracle evaluation from data no one else has seen either.

 

[Archangel7]

Captain (Rtd) Abdul Rahman Omar said that the most glaring mistake of the aviation department was not following annexe 11 of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

“Annexe 11 relates to communication with an aircraft in distress, between the air traffic controllers (ATC) and the pilot of the plane,” said Rahman.

“The ATC was to have contacted the pilot and directed him to communicate with air traffic controllers in Ho Chi Minh but the procedure underannexe 11 was not followed.”
Rahman believed that it was a mistake on the DCA’s part not to trust the radar data provided by the air force hours after the plane had disappeared.

“I believe the air force received the radar data in Pulau Perak where MH370 was last pinged on the radar. But the DCA did not trust the data,” he added.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/05/15/dca-did-not-trust-air-forces-radar-data/

I don't quite understand Abdul's statement......... There was no emergency declared was there?
I do know I've failed to read back the handoff freq. and had ATC immediately call back and repeat it and wait for me to repeat it back.

In this case MAS 370 was told to contact Ho Chi Minh at 120.9 and MAS 370 only replied goodnight, Malaysian 370 without the readback of the hand off freq.(120.9)

I do agree it all seems to have been handled negligibly after that.

 

[Archangel7]

Does anyone find this concerning, no one seems to have Inmarsat's raw data...



Data Doesn’t Lie?:The fuzzy math behind the search for MH370.

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...hind_the_search_for_the_missing_airliner.html

I also remember Inmarsat saying the satellite giving this data was old, or an article mentioning that. I don't like the fact that no one else has seen this data - or alternately if they could verify it's origination and relation to the missing plane. I really don't like that a private company might have something to gain by the international publicity of their miracle evaluation from data no one else has seen either.

Yes.

The operator of the Sat. is providing an interpretation of the data, rather than the builder, or the patent holders of the technology on the satellite, if I understand all the info correctly.

 

[ElleElle]

Does anyone find this concerning, no one seems to have Inmarsat's raw data...



Data Doesn’t Lie?:The fuzzy math behind the search for MH370.

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...hind_the_search_for_the_missing_airliner.html

I also remember Inmarsat saying the satellite giving this data was old, or an article mentioning that. I don't like the fact that no one else has seen this data - or alternately if they could verify it's origination and relation to the missing plane. I really don't like that a private company might have something to gain by the international publicity of their miracle evaluation from data no one else has seen either.

I wonder if there is a patent for their calculations, or if was just a QA test.

 

[ElleElle]

I don't quite understand Abdul's statement......... There was no emergency declared was there?
I do know I've failed to read back the handoff freq. and had ATC immediately call back and repeat it and wait for me to repeat it back.

In this case MAS 370 was told to contact Ho Chi Minh at 120.9 and MAS 370 only replied goodnight, Malaysian 370 without the readback of the hand off freq.(120.9)

I do agree it all seems to have been handled negligibly after that.

My opinion on this, is the lack of communication was not taken seriously by HCM ATC and KL ATC. If they followed through a series of escalation steps, we would not be here now.

JMO

 

[Nymeria]

To quote Steely.... :waiting: