Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

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I don't know if the group early on saw this 2.5 month old article
but I just came across it & it outlines how 2 Boeing planes with
Air India had to turn back because of problems with their transponders
... maybe Boeing had some culpability in this incident ?



http://www.business-standard.com/ar...urns-to-delhi-with-a-snag-114031000233_1.html

Even if Boeing is/was aware of these transponder issues, it is up to the individual airline to fix the problem before that plane leaves the airport. Does the article state if it is an issue with ALL 777's or just certain ones? MH370 is 777-200 ER IIRC. It will be built somewhat differently than the other 777 planes.
 
Does the article state if it is an issue with ALL 777's or just certain ones?
MH370 is 777-200 ER IIRC. It will be built somewhat differently than the other 777 planes.

The article says the March flight was a Boeing 777-300ER
& the January flight was a Boeing 787.
I would imagine the Indian official is only speaking of planes
he is familiar with in that general area.
I don't know how to identify where the planes were built.
 
The article says the March flight was a Boeing 777-300ER
& the January flight was a Boeing 787.
I would imagine the Indian official is only speaking of planes
he is familiar with in that general area.
I don't know how to identify where the planes were built.

I assume all Boeing planes are built at Boeing HQ and then shipped off to the airports.
 
No it doesn't work like that. For instance, think about how Japancse cars have American manufacturing plants now. Also Ford has a number of plants in the USA & Canada. Certain automotive models come out of specific plants.

I know that both Boeing & one of their competitors McDonnel-Douglas both have manufacturing plants in Canada as well as the USA. I am not sure whether they have whole planes built in other countries, or they might just have the wings for instance made elsewhere & then shipped to the USA for final assembly.

Boeing's main function as a manufacturer is forming & riveting large pieces of metal together into a frame capable of flight. For instance they are not involved in making passenger seats. That is something they would sub-contract out or puchase separately & then install them.

Something like a transponder is much more sophisticated than airframe assembly & Boeing most likely sub-contractd that out to a more technologically inclined company. After the transponder would be manufactured & programmed elsewhere, then they would ship it to Boeing for installation into the frame. After that, they would probably have someone from the transponder company liase with Boeing to test & ensure that it was working per specifications.

The way the article described the problem, seems to me like it was a manufacturing flaw that would result in a certain percentage of problems. This happens in the automotive industry all the time & they regularly have wide recalls to fix the flaws.

Even if Boeing sub-contracted the transponder out, Boeing would be the one ultimately responsible for it functioning in the finished product that they sold to a customer.
 
I was on the Boeing site and it looks to me like they build the entire jet at the manufacturing plants. But I could be wrong.
 
I was on the Boeing site and it looks to me like they build the entire jet at the manufacturing plants. But I could be wrong.

I use to live in Winnipeg, and there was a huge Boeing plant that manufactured whole planes.

IMO, if there is a known defect, Boeing would contact the airlines with a notification and it is up to the airline to revoke the part and start the process to replace.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk
 
I was on the Boeing site and it looks to me like they build the entire jet at the manufacturing plants. But I could be wrong.

Same thing with the plane engines ... Boeing didn't make them ...
Boeing bought Rolls Royce engines that they installed into their airframes.

I looked up transponders ... Here are some manufacturer's names I found ...
Avidyne, Becker, Bendix/King, Dynon, Garmin, Sandia, Trig Avionics.
 
if there is a known defect, Boeing would contact the airlines with a notification and it is up to the airline to revoke the part and start the process to replace.

Well using my auto analogy ... it is a process that takes some time ... a lot of accidents have to happen
before anyone puts the info together to realize that there even was a manufacturing flaw in the first place.

Sure it is up to the car owner to bring in his car to a mechanic & get the faulty part replaced
BUT because it was a manufacturing flaw, the auto company is the one who bears the responsiblty of paying the bill.
 
Well using my auto analogy ... it is a process that takes some time ... a lot of accidents have to happen
before anyone puts the info together to realize that there even was a manufacturing flaw in the first place.

Sure it is up to the car owner to bring in his car to a mechanic & get the faulty part replaced
BUT because it was a manufacturing flaw, the auto company is the one who bears the responsiblty of paying the bill.

IMO, with aircraft, it would take 1 detailed incident to advise of correction action.

Aircraft cost alot, airlines have a reputation and standards to maintain and more lives are at risk.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk
 
Well using my auto analogy ... it is a process that takes some time ... a lot of accidents have to happen
before anyone puts the info together to realize that there even was a manufacturing flaw in the first place.

Sure it is up to the car owner to bring in his car to a mechanic & get the faulty part replaced
BUT because it was a manufacturing flaw, the auto company is the one who bears the responsiblty of paying the bill.

Besides, 2rose, we have no idea what went wrong with MH370. :sigh:

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk
 
IMO, with aircraft, it would take 1 detailed incident to advise of correction action.
Aircraft cost alot, airlines have a reputation and standards to maintain and more lives are at risk.

The article that started this discussion was about 2 incidents (not accidents)
where a plane in flight had to return to the departure site (one after 3 hours of flying).
Who knows how many other planes were sent back ... the only reason the
public heard about the 2 Air India incidents was because MH370 went missing.
Who knows if maybe MH370 had some transponder problems too ?
We'll probably never know the causes of the problems it had.

Looking at another incident ... in the case of the Korean ferry that sank,
it was determined that a contributing factor was that, for a profit of $62,000
the ship had been overloaded with cargo way beyond what was safely allowed.
Further it was discovered that about 200 previous similar incidents had earned them $3 million.

Malaysia has admitted that some of the cargo on MH370 is confidential.
In light of this, who knows what dangerous cargo MH370 might have been carrying ?
 
The article that started this discussion was about 2 incidents (not accidents)
where a plane in flight had to return to the departure site (one after 3 hours of flying).
Who knows how many other planes were sent back ... the only reason the
public heard about the 2 Air India incidents was because MH370 went missing.
Who knows if maybe MH370 had some transponder problems too ?
We'll probably never know the causes of the problems it had.

Looking at another incident ... in the case of the Korean ferry that sank,
it was determined that a contributing factor was that, for a profit of $62,000
the ship had been overloaded with cargo way beyond what was safely allowed.
Further it was discovered that about 200 previous similar incidents had earned them $3 million.

Malaysia has admitted that some of the cargo on MH370 is confidential.
In light of this, who knows what dangerous cargo MH370 might have been carrying ?

In regards to the cargo, I don't think anyone (other than Malaysian Airlines) knows what exactly was in the cargo hold.
 
In the litany of overlooked meaningful info lets not forget that the outfit that has the baggage handling contract (MASKargo) at KL is certified 9 handler (can carry the most dangerous cargo allowed on aircraft).

They proudly boast this capability here.

http://www.maskargo.com/services/dangerous-goods

The entity is a subsidary of MAL Airlines!

....and these litium batteries for "laptops" weighed between 30-40 lbs each (a fellow sleuther did the math for me from the cargo manifest - wieght by number of pieces - it was in metrics or something!)

- here is a pic of a lithium battery used in aviation avionic bays to power communication systems etc.

My guess - looks like it weighs about 30- 40 lbs - you decide!
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=450&page=1&start=0&ndsp=9
 
A fact filled motion picture - they used a 747 with MAL markings (then in one cutaway they used a 777 ! 2 or 4 engines! - if there using a 50 year old aircraft to tell the story geezzzzzzzzzzzzzz.!

 
In regards to the cargo, I don't think anyone (other than Malaysian Airlines) knows what exactly was in the cargo hold.

I found the last sentence of this article about the MH370 battery cargo interesting …. spoken by Malaysia Airlines chief executive officer.

However, he cautioned that companies were notorious of shipping "hidden dangerous goods" which could include flammable liquids, lubricants, corrosive and oxidizing materials.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/5509...-motorola-preliminary-report.htm#.U3lQcPmSweg
 
The family members of the seven crewmembers claimed that MAS stopped caregiving services and severed all communication with them since May 8, after learning family members had acquired the services of a lawyer.

The family members said they had hired a lawyer to advise them on certain legal matters, such as legal documents they were asked to sign.

Shim said that MAS abruptly stopped communicating to them and they had no one to turn to for information or updates on the search.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/05/18/mh370-crews-families-allege-MAS-abandoned-them/
 
It’s actually quite fascinating!

The airlines choose which engines Boeing or Airbus install on their aircraft. The heavy hitters are Pratt and Whitney, General Electric, and Rolls Royce. '

It was more common years ago, but for several models all three of the above engine manufactures designed engines for the same plane and competed for each airline to select their engine to be used on their models.

It get super complicated - Rolls Royce would say to United select our JT548 for your fleet of triple 7’s and we will give you 2 years maintenance, 20 backup engines, and four simulators etc. etc. Then General Electric would sit down with United to court them and say I can give 3 years maintenance, 225 overhauls and train your mechanics in the purchase price if you select our P454.

Then Pratt will come back and say ok well pick up transitional training for your flight crews. They present, for lack of a better term efficiency (like mph!), time between overhauls etc. etc.

If once the deal is struck and when the airplane hits the skies both airplane manufacturers and engine manufacturers are “fined” performance penalties if the aircraft do not meet criteria (promised) in the sales meetings.
.
Its cut throat and vicious –billions and billions are at stake! It takes years, starts while the aircraft itself is still in the design phase and changes endlessly over the years before the first machine rolls of the line!

Bob I can’t get below empty weight of 394 tons – Ok I think we can get you up to 85,000 pounds of thrust – we should be ok

The jet manufactures spend millions designing them but the real money is getting your engine hung on as many planes as you can and getting the lucrative decades longs maintenance part of the deal – that is where they make their development costs back –after the sale!

No airliner can be built with a launch customer (in 777 it was United). They are the first carrier to commit to buying the aircraft and get the whole deal rolling- and the launch customer is treated as royalty!

All the airlines (like people with cars!) custom their planes – some want *advertiser censored* seats, some want pink bathrooms, some want Honeywell transponders, some want extended range, some want more thrust, some want first class,. Some want all economy seating, some want green carpet it’s unreal!!

And Boeing created an assembly line (first time that has been done) where from start to finish each machine moves through the factory at like 2 mph !

Boeings Dreamliner is in a MESS right now!

Hope I am not boring you!
 
  • On 8 March, 00:41, Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 took off from Kuala Lumpur International Airport. At 01:19, the pilot bid air traffic control 'good night'. Two minutes later, the plane and its 227 passengers vanished from the skies. No trace has been found. The disappearance of flight MH370 has horrified people across the globe. In an age where a stolen smartphone can be pinpointed to any location on earth............
  • Paperback: 288 pages
Flight MH370: The Mystery: Nigel Cawthorne: 9781784181123: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WFbmC0QnL.@@AMEPARAM@@51WFbmC0QnL




Flight MH370: The Mystery goes on sale today with the explosive theory, the first of doubtless many books to explore the disappearance of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, which has confounded experts since March 8.

http://www.news.com.au/world/new-bo...litary-operation/story-fndir2ev-1226921857886
 
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