Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #7

[21merc7]

I love the overhead pictures of stuff on the water in these threads;

I do too, but I must ask, what year was this taken? (Sorry, Dad lived on destroyers for years, so I ask.)

 

[gitana1]

Peter Bergen saying idea of 777 going past radar of India, Pakistan, and even Afghanistan is "unthinkable."

Or through Tibet, Mongolia, both heavily surveilled by China, or through Kazakhstan or any of the nations nearby, heavily monitored by Russia.

This plane crashed in the ocean somewhere. I will eat my hat if it didn't. (Well, not really!)

I just have a very hard time believing the pilots are involved, but of course, I know nothing.

The pilots would have been educated and in the upper-class of Malaysia - not the type of people working with terrorists, IMO.

Psychological issues - maybe. But then there is the issue of 2 pilots - they can't both have been going through severe psychological issues at the same time, or conspired together. One would have had to be able to disable the other pilot.

JMO.

The 9/11 terrorists were pretty much all educated and middle to upper class. In fact, there is a tendency for educated, alienated and dissolusioned young men from certain countries, who can't find jobs that allow them to marry (and have sex), to be drawn to terrorism. It is a reaction to social-economic change in their countries and their own frustrations and sense of isolation/displacement.

One other random comment. I would prefer that the pilot of any jet I'm on be a minimum age of 35. I want a seasoned pro, even for a co-pilot. But that's just me...

One of the pilots in the Air New Zealand return trip I took was very young- under 30. I asked him about it. He said at age 15 or so, he went on a vocational track in secondary school and began flight school/training super young, 18 or so? That was in 96'.

I think some countries have different educational tracks for students that allow them to begin training sooner.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...terpol-search-missing-plane/story?id=22922961

video here says the plane turned but then based on pings either went north or south.. if they have pings in both directions how could that be and what could that relate to? Perhaps unidentified pings in both directions that are not confirmed yet? Hope they can get to the bottom of this soon.

I think there is a lot going on here that we do not yet know, that is for sure.

It has to do with the type of radar that detected the plane and how it works. It does not have to do with pinpointing an exact location. I watched an explanation and it was confusing but did make some sense. It was like some reflection of the plane by the radar showed it could have ended up somewhere in the large range of the radars that detected it, but the range is huge.

By flying the jets you and I are on, I think.

Not at all. In the Fear of Flying course I took, the pilot explained the training they go through. Totally, totally insane. The hours they accumulate are ridiculous. And they fly cargo jets forever before graduating to co-pilot of a passenger plane. It takes forever. They never "train" on us.

Also, to be able to fly, they have to do pass extensive flight simulator training that puts them in ever more horrific and impossible situations. One tiny mistake, they don't pass. And they also RETRAIN on those same simulators every 8 months or so and cannot make mistakes during retraining either.

It angers me when I see things on the news or in comments that inspire fear of flying because it crippled me for so long and I don't want anyone else to go through what I did. FLYING IS SAFE. Safer than standing on your porch.

 

[popsicle]

Well, if true, it would suggest he might not have been in a good state of mind..... I really hope it wasn't pilot suicide, that would be one hell of a selfish way to go about it, taking 238 people with you. The Mirror newspaper is a tabloid and not to be entirely trusted. Oh I don't know, anything is possible.

Also, that would mean his 3 adult children and his grandchildren lived with him.

 

[shygrl]

Ok, can someone tell me how the flight is programmed in and if it can be altered once off the ground?

This is why I am thinking there a group involved here.

Of course a flight can be changed after it is off the ground. If something happens and a plane needs to turn around or land at the nearest airport it can go wherever the person piloting takes it. Usually autopilot is used , but people can turn it off and fly the plane.

 

[Snoods]

I hope I am not asking a redundant question and not quite sure how to word it....if we know from what they have told us about how much fuel the plane had....do we know if there is/was a reserve tank on that plane? If so, and the "hijackers" or whatever knew the amount needed to fly to the planes destination, how would the hijacker know if there is/was any reserve on board? TIA to anyone that might can answer.

And how would a highjacker know the amount in a reserve tank.

Wow, the direction this is taking now has my head spinning!:scared: I'd be truly shocked, but it sure would explain a heck of a lot if one of the pilots were responsible.

 

[panthera]

Wrt the transponder being turned off by someone other than the pilots:


The transponder of MH370 was switched off around the time analysts said it would have reached its cruising altitude, when pilots often emerge to take a bathroom or coffee break.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/20...alaysia-pilots-home?mch=mobilenh&mchpost=pos2

(But surely he would have noticed after he returned to the cockpit?)

Both pilot and co-pilot would not have exited the cockpit at the same time. One of them must remain there. However, one of them opening the door and leaving may give an opportunity for someone to attempt to enter and overtake the aircraft.

MOO

 

[Madame Poulet]

According to CNN, within the last few minutes, the ACAR (sp?) system has to be turned off somewhere other than the cockpit, the transponder is right there on the dashboard, AND- both systems were turned out before "alright, goodnight".

The same thing was just said on Sky News too, that to disable the ACARS system someone would have to access the avionics bay below the cockpit & so the person doing this would have to be in full control of the cockpit at the time

Although the next report on Sky had a retired airline pilot in a simulator with the reporter who said the ACARS unit could just be turned off using a switch, so who knows :banghead:

 

[Snoods]

Re the wife and children - weren't his 3 children grown? He has grandchildren - were they all living together in one house? I have read that he lived in a ated community but I haven't read who lived there.

He has a 20 year old daughter that lives with them and two older boys that don't, according to CNN.

 

[ElleElle]

I do too, but I must ask, what year was this taken? (Sorry, Dad lived on destroyers for years, so I ask.)

Are these not live satt images?

 

[AlwaysShocked]

21merc7: To answer your questions as best I can (these questions were on a TV show I watched) The cell phones we use work on the ground but do not work at elevations.

The signals from the missing plane that were picked up on a satellite were only able to be picked up because there was some kind of a signal still active on the plane that the highjackers (or whoever) either didn't know about or did not know how to disable. It had to do with the engines and was part of a system designed to be sending a continuous signal on the state of the engines to the manufacturer of the engines.

Apparently the legitimate use of this particular system is for data from the plane's engines to be sent to the manufacturer's satellite. Then the data transmitted from satellite to the manufacturer so they can be prepared in advance to perform maintenance - have parts in stock, etc. BUT to have this system available, someone has to pay for it and Malaysian Airways did not pay for the transfer-of-data system.

But, despite the data transfer system not being operational, there was still the ability for the manufacturer's satellite to pick up some basic information from those engines, once per hour. So that's where they have gotten the information they have.

The "experts" on the show I watched said to expect to see changes made that in the future all airliners must have a built-in, permanent means of being tracked.

 

[MsFacetious]

Are these not live satt images?

They are all after March 8, 2014 for purposes of searching for the plane.
So they are all taken in 2014. :seeya:

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

This might be a really daft question, but last summer the kids and I spent many an evening watching the International Space Station flying over us, if I recall correctly they could do a lap around the world (at UK latitude) in about an hour as some nights we saw it twice. So.. daft question maybe, but could the ISS have been deployed to go and have a look over the Indian Ocean??

No; too many factors involved. And you don't need to if you can move unmanned satellites, as the Chinese have done. Not sure the ISS would be kitted out with anything suitable for a search like this anyway.

It is awesome watching the ISS go over though... last year I watched it being "chased" by a resupply rocket for 2/3 days (which is another good reason not to move it).

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

By process of elimination, the person with the skill, expertise and opportunity to steer this plane off course and keep it from being readily located would be the eldest pilot, not a novice hijacker who has limited knowledge of a plane.

My prediction is if one of the pilots are involved, they both are involved.

 

[Intermezzo]

I love the overhead pictures of stuff on the water in these threads;

ScarlettScarpetta, in the last thread, wanted to know which ship (carrier) this is

I looked up the USS Kidd and USS Pinckney, they are destroyer class,

I must be the carrier that has the Poseidon and Orion air craft on it or it belongs to another country

 

[gregjrichards]

CNN) -- [Breaking news alert, 7:12 p.m. ET]

The U.S. intelligence community is leaning toward a theory that "those in the cockpit" -- the pilots of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 -- were deliberately responsible for whatever happened to the commercial jetliner that vanished, a U.S. official with direct knowledge of the latest thinking told CNN on Saturday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html

 

[fruity]

According to CNN, within the last few minutes, the ACAR (sp?) system has to be turned off somewhere other than the cockpit, the transponder is right there on the dashboard, AND- both systems were turned out before "alright, goodnight".

IIRC the ACARS outside the cockpit was disabled 5 hours after the one in the cockpit.

Era no, this is wrong. Yesterday's report saying this was incorrect.

 

[21merc7]

Are these not live satt images?

I don't know, I did not post the image.

The circles on the flight deck pose a problem for sea craft though.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Perhaps the ACARS system is sort of like the engine reporting system, in that it can be manually switched off in the cockpit, but the basic unit continues to send out some type of a signal unless it is further disabled in this second area.

-------------------

I think these leaks are being purposely done by the U.S. with the knowledge and consent of the Malaysian government.

While the loss of life is just awful, if this turns out to be a nutcase rogue pilot or two, that is MUCH better than it being some organized terrorist group.

 

[ElleElle]

21merc7: To answer your questions as best I can (these questions were on a TV show I watched) The cell phones we use work on the ground but do not work at elevations.

The signals from the missing plane that were picked up on a satellite were only able to be picked up because there was some kind of a signal still active on the plane that the highjackers (or whoever) either didn't know about or did not know how to disable. It had to do with the engines and was part of a system designed to be sending a continuous signal on the state of the engines to the manufacturer of the engines.

Apparently the legitimate use of this particular system is for data from the plane's engines to be sent to the manufacturer's satellite. Then the data transmitted from satellite to the manufacturer so they can be prepared in advance to perform maintenance - have parts in stock, etc. BUT to have this system available, someone has to pay for it and Malaysian Airways did not pay for the transfer-of-data system.

But, despite the data transfer system not being operational, there was still the ability for the manufacturer's satellite to pick up some basic information from those engines, once per hour. So that's where they have gotten the information they have.

The "experts" on the show I watched said to expect to see changes made that in the future all airliners must have a built-in, permanent means of being tracked.

BBM ~ Yeah, like a chip that cannot be disabled or tampered with. Not a "switch". :banghead:

 

[gitana1]

Over a week has passed. If this plane had crashed into the sea, surely something would have been seen by now? Unless it crashed intact and literally sank to the bottom then there would be some sort of debris floating somewhere. There are loads of ships and aircraft all out searching, and yeah, I know the sea is pretty big but I just don't believe that satellites/subs/planes wouldn't have seen SOMETHING this far into the search.

This might be a really daft question, but last summer the kids and I spent many an evening watching the International Space Station flying over us, if I recall correctly they could do a lap around the world (at UK latitude) in about an hour as some nights we saw it twice. So.. daft question maybe, but could the ISS have been deployed to go and have a look over the Indian Ocean??

I don't think most of us really realize just how big it is. Someone described it as trying to find an eyelash in a pool. Without information as to its actual location, I think it could be very hard to find.

We live on a big planet.